[Proposal] Rumours about Schmidt and Miller

[IBatch]

On 4/14/2021 at 6:53 PM, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

What? Is 28 the new 50??

 

You talk about him as if he is in his mid-thirties. 28 is prime age. Helk, even 30 is.

Bo is 26 and Brock is 24. 

 

Jeez, we're screwed if we don't win a cup in the next couple years since half of our core will have already "peaked".

Like a bunch of kids ever won anything because even the kids in EDM took time.   They don't.   Talking about them beating a worn down NYI vet team of course.   Even CHI first cup had a ton of vets on their team.   League is only younger because of cap restrictions.   Look at Carlson.  Look at Burns.  Hamilton.  It's very rare to have a player come in and have his best years young.   Marchand.  Naslund and the Sedins too. 

[JM_]

30 minutes ago, IBatch said:

All these guys are keepers (Myers, Schmidt, Miller), they for sure don't grow on trees.   We need more of them not less.   I'd include Edler of two years ago as well.   These guys are worth their weight in gold.   The idea that players turn 30 and all of a sudden are done is ridiculous.    Maybe some that have had very hard miles on them as far as injuries go but outside of that nope.   D's especially, a lot of blue chip ones have their best years past 30, it happens often enough. 

 

That said we need more then QHs ... OJ debut was solid enough.   Rathbone didn't waste much time either so there is hope for sure.    But it's still the old guys carrying the mail as far as keeping the puck out of the net (plus OJ).... Hamonic as well. 

the value is excellent for Miller and Schmidt, a 20th oa and an 70-80th oa for top 6 F and top 4 d in their prime years is excellent asset management. Yeah I said it. 

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Jimmy McGill

[J.I.A.H.N]

7 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

the value is excellent for Miller and Schmidt, a 20th oa and an 70-80th oa for top 6 F and top 4 d in their prime years is excellent asset management. Yeah I said it. 

 

Well Jim, let me push you a little further along the trail.......I need company!

 

Let's just look at the Value of.............................

 

Miller..........when Miller was obtained from Tampa, he was playing 3rd line, and Benning thought he was worth a 1st, obviously Tampa did too. They Accepted Vancouver's first, which they were thinking would be around 15th OA in a draft where there had been solid, year long scouting. Now I bring up that point because, this year, scouting is scanty and there is more variance to the rankings.

 

I would suggest that Miller's value if thought of as a solid 3rd liner, who was being held back by depth, would be a solid 15th. But! This is not exactly Miller's value today, as he is widely accepted as a 1st line player, in the middle of his prime, on a good contract. Surely, this would elevate his value? I would suggest, a team wanting a 1st line LWer or a solid 2nd line Center, who can play up, would pay more.

 

So, IMO, Miller's value is that of a 1st in the 6 to 10 spot or a 1st in the 15 to 20 spot and a 2nd. Certainly, trades of this nature at the TDL bring in those types of returns for a player of Miller's ilk.

 

Schmidt.........Schmidt is another player who boasts strong credentials, being that he plays both RHD and LHD equally as well, and has played both a #2 and #3 Defenseman in Vegas and in Vancouver, my opinion would be that he should bring in a 20 to 28 OA pick, or 2-2nd rounders (1 being early). These evaluations are inline with the TDL trades done last year. In fact, they may be a little conservative.

 

So don't let anyone crap on your suggestion of value, unless they are saying you are too light. Both players are top 2 line players, and would bring in more than they cost us.

[JM_]

10 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Well Jim, let me push you a little further along the trail.......I need company!

 

Let's just look at the Value of.............................

 

Miller..........when Miller was obtained from Tampa, he was playing 3rd line, and Benning thought he was worth a 1st, obviously Tampa did too. They Accepted Vancouver's first, which they were thinking would be around 15th OA in a draft where there had been solid, year long scouting. Now I bring up that point because, this year, scouting is scanty and there is more variance to the rankings.

 

I would suggest that Miller's value if thought of as a solid 3rd liner, who was being held back by depth, would be a solid 15th. But! This is not exactly Miller's value today, as he is widely accepted as a 1st line player, in the middle of his prime, on a good contract. Surely, this would elevate his value? I would suggest, a team wanting a 1st line LWer or a solid 2nd line Center, who can play up, would pay more.

 

So, IMO, Miller's value is that of a 1st in the 6 to 10 spot or a 1st in the 15 to 20 spot and a 2nd. Certainly, trades of this nature at the TDL bring in those types of returns for a player of Miller's ilk.

 

Schmidt.........Schmidt is another player who boasts strong credentials, being that he plays both RHD and LHD equally as well, and has played both a #2 and #3 Defenseman in Vegas and in Vancouver, my opinion would be that he should bring in a 20 to 28 OA pick, or 2-2nd rounders (1 being early). These evaluations are inline with the TDL trades done last year. In fact, they may be a little conservative.

 

So don't let anyone crap on your suggestion of value, unless they are saying you are too light. Both players are top 2 line players, and would bring in more than they cost us.

yup hindsight only up's Millers value. 

 

But thats not the discussion some want to have. If you begin with the premise that Miller was a "cap dump" then Jim's an idiot and none of what you said matters. Thats whats important to many, Jim being dumb, not having a top 6 C nearly PPG player who can play all situations fo a 20th oa. 

 

And just for some extra context, NJ got a likely at best 4-5 d man out of that Miller pick (https://dobberprospects.com/player/shakir-mukhamadullin/).

 

And lets say you're not happy about Jim's "2 year" comment and think we got Miller too early, well thats OK too because he's way more valuable now if we want to package him in a deal this summer.

 

Its a good deal with real value. Thats hard to do. 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Jimmy McGill

[J.I.A.H.N]

17 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yup hindsight only up's Millers value. 

 

But thats not the discussion some want to have. If you begin with the premise that Miller was a "cap dump" then Jim's an idiot and none of what you said matters. Thats whats important to many, Jim being dumb, not having a top 6 C nearly PPG player who can play all situations fo a 20th oa. 

 

And just for some extra context, NJ got a likely at best 4-5 d man out of that Miller pick (https://dobberprospects.com/player/shakir-mukhamadullin/).

 

And lets say you're not happy about Jim's "2 year" comment and think we got Miller too early, well thats OK too because he's way more valuable now if we want to package him in a deal this summer.

 

Its a good deal with real value. Thats hard to do. 

 

 

 

I guess it matters when our window really is Jimmy

 

I see our window 2 to 3 years away, and 2 drafts away, meaning we have time to acquire another "Miller" for a first later on. But I think what is as important now is to get ahead of the game and the "Next" rebuild. Meaning if we did not trade Miller, and Schmidt, etc. when do they age out? IMO, they start in 2 to 3 years.............imagine that! Our core veterans will be declining just when our "young" core matures.

 

So, I would rather get ahead of the game. Move some cap, and be in position to draft some skill, and sign a age appropriate veteran to replace, what we moved out.

 

Easy to say from my couch! LOL

 

But I just do not see our rebuild finished ............people seamed to forget how Tampa finished off theirs (trading 1sts and assets for important role players), which means you have to have your rebuild complete, so you don't need your 1st's for your rebuild.............LOL.....go figure! LOL

 

Anyways............As the worm turns, will continue!

[JM_]

41 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I guess it matters when our window really is Jimmy

 

I see our window 2 to 3 years away, and 2 drafts away, meaning we have time to acquire another "Miller" for a first later on. But I think what is as important now is to get ahead of the game and the "Next" rebuild. Meaning if we did not trade Miller, and Schmidt, etc. when do they age out? IMO, they start in 2 to 3 years.............imagine that! Our core veterans will be declining just when our "young" core matures.

 

So, I would rather get ahead of the game. Move some cap, and be in position to draft some skill, and sign a age appropriate veteran to replace, what we moved out.

 

Easy to say from my couch! LOL

 

But I just do not see our rebuild finished ............people seamed to forget how Tampa finished off theirs (trading 1sts and assets for important role players), which means you have to have your rebuild complete, so you don't need your 1st's for your rebuild.............LOL.....go figure! LOL

 

Anyways............As the worm turns, will continue!

with a new coach, and a couple of good off-season moves I think this team is back to playoff contention, and then anything can happen. But thats just my 2 cents. I'd use LA as an example tho, that team barely snuck into the playoffs and things fell their way. 

[IBatch]

On 4/14/2021 at 12:32 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

depends on the back story, if he's a disgruntled baby then why not if the return is great. But you've got full control of a top 6 veteran ppg player, no need to rush on a bad deal. 

 

Miller for sure could be our teams version of Duchene.    Just need to pick a bad team that thinks they are good .... SJ maybe?  Wilson seems to always want to re-tool.   Trade Miller for their unprotected first for 2021-2022 a second and a third.    Basically what Vegas traded for Tatar.   

 

For me the time to do this sort of deal would be next years TDL if at all.   Give the team every chance to make the show next season, if we are looking good then keep him, if not make the re-set for the future.  

He seemed a little grumpy at times this season, not that i mind because i don't, management will know if something is creeping into the dressing room - say excessive pouting lol...which could also factor in.   AG said some very odd things when he was signed that made me wonder what he's like in the dressing room, between that and covid and of course his play it wasn't at all a surprise to see him go. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

19 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

with a new coach, and a couple of good off-season moves I think this team is back to playoff contention, and then anything can happen. But thats just my 2 cents. I'd use LA as an example tho, that team barely snuck into the playoffs and things fell their way. 

A new manager maybe first ... unless TG has lost the room which i don't think he has.    But yes i don't think things are nearly as bad as the standings.   Too many disruptions this year, bubble fatigue, bad start/schedule, losing EP (and somehow clawing our way back into it) then Covid and the cliff.   

 

Next year with the same roster plus Podz, a full year of OJ (arguably our best defensive defenseman already), all the youth an extra season and getting close to the "breakout" age (3-4 seasons), we saw that with BB during the first half, and have watched Horvat do the same.... even with 8 in cap still sitting on the bench with LE and Luongo minus one million... in our own division... got to like those odds of making the playoffs.   

[JM_]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

A new manager maybe first ... unless TG has lost the room which i don't think he has.    But yes i don't think things are nearly as bad as the standings.   Too many disruptions this year, bubble fatigue, bad start/schedule, losing EP (and somehow clawing our way back into it) then Covid and the cliff.   

 

Next year with the same roster plus Podz, a full year of OJ (arguably our best defensive defenseman already), all the youth an extra season and getting close to the "breakout" age (3-4 seasons), we saw that with BB during the first half, and have watched Horvat do the same.... even with 8 in cap still sitting on the bench with LE and Luongo minus one million... in our own division... got to like those odds of making the playoffs.   

I have to wonder what kind of bump getting a healthy Petey back would have been for the teams chances. Montreal and Cowgary both crapped the bed so we did have a chance. Ah well. 

 

So top 10 pick, maybe some sort of trade for another C, and some fresh new kids in Podz and Rathbone for next year, plus whatever expansion does. Lots to look forward to. 

 

[Patel Bure]

On 4/14/2021 at 9:15 AM, Provost said:

I was listening to 650, and for about the 3rd time I heard someone (this time Friedman) mention that there were rumours around that teams have been calling on Miller and Schmidt and that the Canucks have had discussions about it.

It sounds a little crazy, but maybe there are deals to be had that improve us.

I think Miller to Buffalo is an easy no-brainer.  Buffalo is going to explode their team, if it isn't Eichel moving out they need to get pieces to surround him.  A veteran Miller would be an ideal linemate for him, which could make him a lot happier that his organization is actually trying.

A trade for Miller could look like (maybe with small adds going either way to even out):

To Buffalo:
Miller
Virtanen

To Vancouver:
Ristolainen
Eakin

+?

Then Schmidt is expendable as Risto seems like a better fit with our other D

Jersey is losing a top 4D this offseason and then Subban the year after and don't have enough ready made replacements.  They have a lot of really decent young forwards.  They might also need some support for Blackwood.

A trade with Jersey could look like:
To Jersey:
Schmidt
Holtby
Roussel

A Decent pick/prospect 

To Vancouver:
Jesper Bratt
Nate Bastian

That ends up with us having some extra cap room to pay for our needed extensions and a roster that looks like:

Hoglander-Petterson-Boeser
Pearson-Horvat-Bratt
Podkolzin-Eakin-Bastian
Motte-Beagle-Lind
MacEwan

Hughes-Ristolainen
Edler-Tryamkin
Juolevi-Myers
Rathbone-Bowie

Demko
XX

IF the Canucks feel that....

 

1) Podkolzin can fill Miller’s shoes

2) Rathbone can fill Schmidt’s shoes

 

(and that’s a massive IF obviously), then there could be a benefit in packaging Miller and Schmidt for either a superstar, lottery pick, or can’t miss prospect.  

[AC Readership]

I think the team outlook again for next season will be bottom 5 -10 again. The Canucks have a lot of issues to sort out before playoff spot contention;  D core, 3C, Bottom 6, backup G, resigning the core RFAs, rebuilding the prospect pool, and hopefully no crap UFA signings.

 

Miller is a no brainer this offseason up to the trade deadline.

 

Schmidt's stock is low right now plus he has 10 team NTC.

Edited May 15, 2021 by AC Readership

[BigTramFan]

On 5/14/2021 at 4:41 PM, Patel Bure said:

IF the Canucks feel that....

 

1) Podkolzin can fill Miller’s shoes

2) Rathbone can fill Schmidt’s shoes

 

(and that’s a massive IF obviously), then there could be a benefit in packaging Miller and Schmidt for either a superstar, lottery pick, or can’t miss prospect.  

If CBJ management feel that they will not be able to resign Seth Jones then I would offer:

 

To CBJ: Miller + Schmidt + 2021 2nd round pick

To VAN: Jones + Jenner

 

CBJ may do this if they feel they will lose Jones for very little, so this allows them to upgrade their top 6 and replace Jones in their top 4. They already have three 1st round picks in 2021 plus the VAN 2021 2nd pick, which will all aid in retooling their young team. For 2021-22 their roster is:

 

Domi Miller Laine

Atkinson Roslovic Bjorkstrand

Foudy Stendlund Nyquist

Robinson Grigorenko Gerbe

 

Werenski Schmidt

Gavrikov Peeke

Harrington Kukan

Lehtonen Carlsson

 

Korpisalo, Merzlikins

 

 

VAN does the above deal, buys out Eriksson + Virtanen, and signs UFAs Hamonic + Granlund + Coleman, roster becomes:

 

[flickyoursedin]

I wonder with both guys being in their late 20’s if they might not like where the teams at and might want out. Benning did a fantastic job finding value and trading for these guys. With little time spent here they’re worth more than what we gave up. I wouldn’t want to trade either guy unless they wanted out or if some team wanted to grossly overpay.
 

I always look at Vegas when thinking if we were to trade JT Miller. I always think something around JT Miller for Tuch, Krebs and a pick. Vegas’ GM has made some bad trades in the past and I think Miller would be great for them!

 

Schmidt is tougher to find a trade for in my opinion but there’d definitely be a market higher than what we got for him as long as we take some cap back in the trade (not a cap dump a hockey trade to make the salary work).

[Bertuzzipunch]

Man i would love to get jones for Schmidt somehow but without miller included. Maybe include a lind and next years 1st i wouldnt be totally against tbh.