2022-23 salary cap, Boeser and value of our 2nd line player?

[Provost]

I don’t think it is panic time at all, but it is not like we have a ton of cap space moving forward to add pieces.

 

Boeser next offseason, Bo/Miller/Hoglander the year after; Podkolzin and probably one/both of Petterson and Hughes coming off a bridge deal the year after.

 

I head mentioned a while back that this is the team we are going to have for a few years.  No significant help coming and no significant cap space to add players.  It would be swapping guys out to being different guys in.

 

That isn’t a terrible thing… we now have the core pieces and some (hopefully) decent supplementary guys.  If we are a playoff team next season with this group we can reasonably expect a little more internal development and maybe push towards being an actual contender in a while.  Of course the reverse is also true, if none of these moves pan out and/or current players don’t continue to improve we will be in for a full rebuild in 2-3 years.

 

I am content to let it play out and see.  My only wish is that we made some of these moves last offseason.  Benning said he wasn’t willing to trade this year’s 1st round pick to shed salary then… but he did anyways this year.  If we had have bitten the bullet and exited some of that cap last offseason we maybe could have kept a guy like Toffoli and built on the momentum we had in the bubble.  We were kind of the talk of the league and other players might have signed with us for a discount to be part of an up and coming team.

[wildcam]

16 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

My guess is that the Canucks will entertain moving 1-2 of the following:

 

-Boeser or Miller 
-Hughes

 

For a legitimate top pairing shut down RD

 

IF, 1-2 of the following take leaps in their games and can fill the roles of the departed:

 

-Rathbone

-Podkolzin

-Klimovich

 

 

We should move Miller at the 2022 draft for a 1st rounder and top prospect...

Miller will be 29 next summer with 1 year left on contract before he wants to sign a big contract..

Time to move asset like Miller and get a return..

Podkolzin will be ready to take bigger role...

2022-23

1. Podkolzin - Petey - Boeser

2. Hoglander - Horvat -- Garland      - Winger signed in off season 2022 -- ( 25-28  year old )

3. Pearson - Dickinson -- ( Lockwood or Motte)

4. MacEwen -- ____ --- Gadjovich - Highmore

 

[Maddogy]

18 hours ago, Alflives said:

After we celebrate a Cup parade down Georgia in June 2022, we will care very little about Boeser’s next contract.  

 

#Leafs are Losers!  

If Canucks win the Cup this season, I hope J.B. would tear down the team and trade away Boeser, Pettersson, Hughes... for picks and give the fans the proper rebuild they all clamoured for 

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, wildcam said:

We should move Miller at the 2022 draft for a 1st rounder and top prospect...

Miller will be 29 next summer with 1 year left on contract before he wants to sign a big contract..

Time to move asset like Miller and get a return..

Podkolzin will be ready to take bigger role...

2022-23

1. Podkolzin - Petey - Boeser

2. Hoglander - Horvat -- Garland      - Winger signed in off season 2022 -- ( 25-28  year old )

3. Pearson - Dickinson -- ( Lockwood or Motte)

4. MacEwen -- ____ --- Gadjovich - Highmore

 

I don’t think that’s Benning’s style however.  If the Canucks are competitive and Miller is playing a huge role in that, Benning will likely keep Miller around and just let him walk away at season’s end if necessary.  
 

Having said that, you make a good point about Miller’s age and contract.  Those two factors might make it difficult to trade Miller for a top calibre RD.

[IBatch]

18 hours ago, DeltaSwede said:

Myers has to go. Can't be paying a guy 6 million to not play in the top 4. Also much rather the team rid themselves of him over JT. 

 

Would clear up room for Bo and JT down the line. 

 

 

Sheesh.   Look at his minutes.   Where did he play last year?   Tops in PK minutes for RHD right behind Edler for tops in the team, NOT Hamonic.    Right at the top in minutes played ... 5 x 5 and top PKer isn't third line minutes.   Just because he was chosen to help the rookies out, doesn't mean he's third pairing.   He was played like a top four D, and will again this year.   

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Provost said:

I don’t think it is panic time at all, but it is not like we have a ton of cap space moving forward to add pieces.

 

Boeser next offseason, Bo/Miller/Hoglander the year after; Podkolzin and probably one/both of Petterson and Hughes coming off a bridge deal the year after.

 

I head mentioned a while back that this is the team we are going to have for a few years.  No significant help coming and no significant cap space to add players.  It would be swapping guys out to being different guys in.

 

That isn’t a terrible thing… we now have the core pieces and some (hopefully) decent supplementary guys.  If we are a playoff team next season with this group we can reasonably expect a little more internal development and maybe push towards being an actual contender in a while.  Of course the reverse is also true, if none of these moves pan out and/or current players don’t continue to improve we will be in for a full rebuild in 2-3 years.

 

I am content to let it play out and see.  My only wish is that we made some of these moves last offseason.  Benning said he wasn’t willing to trade this year’s 1st round pick to shed salary then… but he did anyways this year.  If we had have bitten the bullet and exited some of that cap last offseason we maybe could have kept a guy like Toffoli and built on the momentum we had in the bubble.  We were kind of the talk of the league and other players might have signed with us for a discount to be part of an up and coming team.

If we had "bitten the bullet" last off season, the cost for OEL would have been significantly higher.   I swear JB was done with ARI given how they threw a wrench in other players negotiations, then when they came crawling back just kept adding draconian contracts and measures.   ARI fans were expecting Garland signed long term, not traded.   Instead they got the least acceptable of the "9" available, AR, Beagle, LE, lost Garland and were made to retain lol.   Can just see JB making a list of what they'd need to do to get us to bite.    The sum of the parts was 50% on the dollar as far as picks go.   Garland as a throw in and OEL to replace a team need.   Last year they wanted Demko that much was made clear.   Wonder what else they wanted. 

 

Edit:  And for the record - i was hoping we'd just let all the stale contracts run out naturally.    Take our lumps, keep our picks.   Because i didn't think a move like that was even possible. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by IBatch

[NHL97OneTimer]

2 hours ago, wildcam said:

We should move Miller at the 2022 draft for a 1st rounder and top prospect...

Miller will be 29 next summer with 1 year left on contract before he wants to sign a big contract..

Time to move asset like Miller and get a return..

Podkolzin will be ready to take bigger role...

2022-23

1. Podkolzin - Petey - Boeser

2. Hoglander - Horvat -- Garland      - Winger signed in off season 2022 -- ( 25-28  year old )

3. Pearson - Dickinson -- ( Lockwood or Motte)

4. MacEwen -- ____ --- Gadjovich - Highmore

 

Ugh....why are there so many trade Miller or Boeser comments?!!!  Great teams don't look at their top line to see who should be traded.  They hold on to those players.  Miller didn't have a great half season, but up to that point he's been the engine of the team.  We need guys like that in the playoffs.

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Ugh....why are there so many trade Miller or Boeser comments?!!!  Great teams don't look at their top line to see who should be traded.  They hold on to those players.  Miller didn't have a great half season, but up to that point he's been the engine of the team.  We need guys like that in the playoffs.

It's not that we want them to go - it's simple math under the cap.   Teams can't afford all their best players once they become UFAs.    Not without significant sacrifices on depth at least - and aside from Crosby and Ovi, what teams have won with their key guys on their UFA deals anyways?   And they both had to wait a very long time for the cap to go up.   It's not going up but GMs haven't got the memo (yet).    Sure maybe we can jam in 2 million in raises for the pair ... will it be enough?   I doubt it.   More like 3-4 million.  1.5-2 each. 

[NHL97OneTimer]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

If we had "bitten the bullet" last off season, the cost for OEL would have been significantly higher.   I swear JB was done with ARI given how they threw a wrench in other players negotiations, then when they came crawling back just kept adding draconian contracts and measures.   ARI fans were expecting Garland signed long term, not traded.   Instead they got the least acceptable of the "9" available, AR, Beagle, LE, lost Garland and were made to retain lol.   Can just see JB making a list of what they'd need to do to get us to bite.    The sum of the parts was 50% on the dollar as far as picks go.   Garland as a throw in and OEL to replace a team need.   Last year they wanted Demko that much was made clear.   Wonder what else they wanted. 

The cost should be much cheaper this year though.  OEL is a year older and the salaries going back are down to 1 year instead of 2.  Plus, Garland still had a year left on his contract.  Smart of JB to pass last year.  Lots of strong skating D-men play well in their 30s, so JB hit a grand slam as long as OEL can be a professional and keep himself in his best possible form.   

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

The cost should be much cheaper this year though.  OEL is a year older and the salaries going back are down to 1 year instead of 2.  Plus, Garland still had a year left on his contract.  Smart of JB to pass last year.  Lots of strong skating D-men play well in their 30s, so JB hit a grand slam as long as OEL can be a professional and keep himself in his best possible form.   

For sure it was smart to say "no thanks" during a covid year or any year given Demko plus was the ask.    I agree about D's and will even go one step further and say it's happens regularly that blue chip D's have their best seasons past 30.   Not all the time but quite often.  OEL was a risk ... but don't mind his contract compared to what Edler was making at all.    He's a better D, or at least was before Tochett.   JB took rolled the dice though - on both him and Garland.   The benefit is this season won't be a crap year.    The down side is opportunity costs we don't even know about yet.   Modest risk modest to high reward.  

[NHL97OneTimer]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It's not that we want them to go - it's simple math under the cap.   Teams can't afford all their best players once they become UFAs.    Not without significant sacrifices on depth at least - and aside from Crosby and Ovi, what teams have won with their key guys on their UFA deals anyways?   And they both had to wait a very long time for the cap to go up.   It's not going up but GMs haven't got the memo (yet).    Sure maybe we can jam in 2 million in raises for the pair ... will it be enough?   I doubt it.   More like 3-4 million.  1.5-2 each. 

Yeah I get that but great teams find that money from their 3rd and 4th lines, backup goalies, etc.  Those guys are more interchangeable.  If Miller and Boeser demand $10 million or they walk, sure, I would trade them before they are UFAs......I just think it's way premature to even consider that right now.  Best to wait to hear what they are looking for first.  Everyone loves players who are willing to play for market value or a little less......character guys who love where they play and want to win.  Not sure we have many of those on the team right now but that's what helps win championships.

[NHL97OneTimer]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

For sure it was smart to say "no thanks" during a covid year or any year given Demko plus was the ask.    I agree about D's and will even go one step further and say it's happens regularly that blue chip D's have their best seasons past 30.   Not all the time but quite often.  OEL was a risk ... but don't mind his contract compared to what Edler was making at all.    He's a better D, or at least was before Tochett.   JB took rolled the dice though - on both him and Garland.   The benefit is this season won't be a crap year.    The down side is opportunity costs we don't even know about yet.   Modest risk modest to high reward.  

A GM's role is find the best players possible to fill in the gaps, remove the ineffective / inefficient pieces and give the fans hope.  JB has done that in spades this summer.  The players and coaching staff have to do the rest.  If this year is a failure, it won't be on JB from my perspective.  I'm quite hopeful now.

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Yeah I get that but great teams find that money from their 3rd and 4th lines, backup goalies, etc.  Those guys are more interchangeable.  If Miller and Boeser demand $10 million or they walk, sure, I would trade them before they are UFAs......I just think it's way premature to even consider that right now.  Best to wait to hear what they are looking for first.  Everyone loves players who are willing to play for market value or a little less......character guys who love where they play and want to win.  Not sure we have many of those on the team right now but that's what helps win championships.

15 for the pair ... would you do that?   And where is the money coming from anyways ... our fourth line is Motte Sutter/Gadj/McEwen/Dickinson.    He's spent his fourth line money already.   Third line?  Well personally it would be Hogs/Gadj  Miller Podz for me.    We can't make Pearson cheaper then league  min.   And he's staying with Horvat pretty sure of that.   Maybe Pearson can given us 2 at most.   Where are the raises for other guys going to come from?  Hogs will need one too.   And Podz the year after.     There is for sure a reason why this is a topic.   And more then anything, where is the money to bolster our D coming from?  

[IBatch]

9 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

A GM's role is find the best players possible to fill in the gaps, remove the ineffective / inefficient pieces and give the fans hope.  JB has done that in spades this summer.  The players and coaching staff have to do the rest.  If this year is a failure, it won't be on JB from my perspective.  I'm quite hopeful now.

Yes.   At this point we have enough forwards to compete for sure.   Not sure our D is that much better but will reserve judgment - it should be though.    I have zero issue with TG.   He's done a good job with a lot of lemons in his lineup.   Feel that a lot of those 1 goal plus maybe empty netters should end up with us on top now.    8 guys to work with plus fringe guys waiting their turn ... i don't include Dickinson in that - to me he's a shut down winger/c.   And a very good one at that.   Motte Sutter Dickinson is one heck of a fourth line.    Hope we roll four lines and make three scoring lines with even 5 x 5 minutes - feel we'd be tough to beat.    Our D is a question mark though.   

 

Edit:  Just to be clear - i'm pretty bullish on this season.   But also think it's all about playoff reps now. The team we have now with this core might not look anything like the one that might actually contend in the future.   Maybe we are contenders now already like Alf says .     We will find out.... 

Edited August 18, 2021 by IBatch

[BigTramFan]

Of the current forward group I think Pearson will be the first large contract moved (not Miller or Boeser) in order to create cap space and provide space for young talent.

 

Motte may or may not be resigned depending on his ask next off season.

 

If a UFA upgrade on the RHD is available then Hamonic or Myers may also be moved.

[spook007]

Last year folks were worried, Canucks couldn't sign the contracts they needed to... but they did. 
This year folks were concerned Canucks wouldn't have money to sign the contracts, but they do. 
Is it fair to think that they will have a plan in place to sign the players they need for the future... so far they have done just fine each season. 
Unless he falls over a cliff edge or tells Benning to get lost, he will be re-signed without any doubt. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by spook007

[UFCanuck]

15 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Last year folks were worried, Canucks couldn't sign the contracts they needed to... but they did. 
This year folks were concerned Canucks wouldn't have money to sign the contracts, but they do. 
Is it fair to think that they will have a plan in place to sign the players they need for the future... so far they have done just fine each season. 
Unless he falls over a cliff edge or tells Benning to get lost, he will be re-signed without any doubt. 

Some were panicking thinking that Gaudette would play the final year of College and not sign with the Canucks.

 

He did sign and gave the entire team Covid. Be careful what you wish for folks.

Edited August 18, 2021 by playboi19

[wildcam]

Bottom line you can't sign all our top 10 players and you need to trade asset at the right time..

Example -- Miller 29 next summer if he has a good year ? GP 75  - G 24 - PTS 65  Will 1 yr remaining on contract at 5.5 million you trade asset at high value.. Top 8 team will trade late 1st rounder and prospect for MIller..

Miller will want 4 yr 6.5 million Dollar contract the following season at 30 yrs old..

Managing asset is also important...

I really like Miller..

 

[IBatch]

37 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Last year folks were worried, Canucks couldn't sign the contracts they needed to... but they did. 
This year folks were concerned Canucks wouldn't have money to sign the contracts, but they do. 
Is it fair to think that they will have a plan in place to sign the players they need for the future... so far they have done just fine each season. 
Unless he falls over a cliff edge or tells Benning to get lost, he will be re-signed without any doubt. 

I agree with this to a degree.   One thing that we should all be counting on at this point is JB has his own script, none of us our privy to it - and he's following it.   Made some risky plays this off season.   Not the first time and it won't be the last.    Miller is a solid player for us and also is a nucleus for helping EP and the team move forward as a vet.    Easy to like this guy, his bubble starting lineup video was something else.    Pearson will get traded first.  It will  help pay for these guys.   That's the script at least - but like i said - JB doesn't follow the script we have.   Why i'm not so sure. 

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, wildcam said:

Bottom line you can't sign all our top 10 players and you need to trade asset at the right time..

Example -- Miller 29 next summer if he has a good year ? GP 75  - G 24 - PTS 65  Will 1 yr remaining on contract at 5.5 million you trade asset at high value.. Top 8 team will trade late 1st rounder and prospect for MIller..

Miller will want 4 yr 6.5 million Dollar contract the following season at 30 yrs old..

Managing asset is also important...

I really like Miller..

 

Your right but you need to add a year.   A top team would pay that for him easily as a rental.   Look at Coleman.  Look at what Tatar got with one year left.   Look what Duchene got too.    Miller is floated on here because of the treasure trove he's actually worth right now.   He's worth a lot more then what we paid.   Buy low, sell high and all of that..   But i agree he's valuable as heck.   

 

Edit:  Feel the time to trade Miller is next years deadline if we can't re-sign him.   Think we are past the tank phase so not much point in selling him this year as a "re-set" unless things go really really bad ...

Edited August 18, 2021 by IBatch