The Vancouver Canucks and their cap strategy over these coming years

[grandmaster]

19 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

 

Essentially, Benning has set up contracts coming off the cap to coincide when core pieces need to be re-signed

 

2022:

Boeser renewal 

Luongo off the cap $3M

 

2023:

Horvat, Miller, Hoglander renewals 

Hamonic $3M, Ferland $3.5, Holtby $1.9M, Virtanen $0.5M off the cap 

 

2024:

Petterson renewal

Pearson $3.25, Dickinson $2.65, Myers $6M off the cap

 

2027:

Hughes renewal

Ekman-Larson $7.26 off the cap

 

This is effing brilliant.

 

 

Your 2022 figures fail to mention the Holtby and Virtanen buyouts. It basically becomes a wash when Luongo’s cap hit goes.

[Alflives]

15 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Your 2022 figures fail to mention the Holtby and Virtanen buyouts. It basically becomes a wash when Luongo’s cap hit goes.

After the June 2022 Cup parade along Georgia we won't care so much, now will we?  Say hello to a great team!!!

Edited October 4, 2021 by Alflives

[PunjabiCanucks]

16 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Can Klimovich play LW?  If so, then replacing Pearson would be a pretty decent next step.........although I love the defensive game that Pearson brings to the table.  To your point though, something will eventually have to give cap wise.  

 

I think Green and Benning will do one of two things:

 

1) Commit to the 19-20 core that was a part of that bubble playoff experience (i.e. Horvat, Pettersson, Demko, Hughes, Boeser, etc.)

 

2) Use young cheap players that elevate their games significantly (Rathbone, Klimovich, etc.) to move out more expensive players for right side D help, cap space, and 1st round recoup (so basically, using Klimovich, Rathbone, and Podkolzin to replace Boeser, Hughes, and JT Miller).  

 

From the earlier post in this thread ("The Hockey Guy" you tube video), I think it looks like Benning and the Aqua's have a pretty strong long term cap strategy in place.  The key for me, will be in finding that top pairing 'defensive' RD.  I know a few posters on here believe that a strong system might be able to compensate for a weak right side D, but I'm not entirely convinced given the inevitability of injuries.   

 

I'm wondering if there's a young RD "defensive" defenseman out there that would have similar value to Jack Rathbone?   Not a Moritz Seider or Braden Schneider obviously, but maybe a prospect on the tier below? 

 

He is listed as RW, but Garland is listed as LW/ RW on cap friendly

TOP 9 OPTIONS

Miller/ Hoglander/ Pearson/ Garland are options on the LW atm for our top 9

Horvat Pettersson Dickinson are your 3 centres- Unless we want Miller centering a line, makes Dickinson 4C with Sutter

RW: Boeser, Podkolzin, Klimovich

 

Nothing wrong with a top 9 of

 

Hoglander Petey Podkolzin - balanced line- Boeser may make it too soft of a line. Hoglander will work his ass off and get pucks to Petey and Podkolzin. 

Pearson Horvat Boeser - keep Pearson and Horvat together, Boeser imo can play just as well with a Horvat who doesnt have huge Defensive responsible line match ups

Garland Miller Klimovich - questionable line, Miller and Garland have played together in the preseason - only works if Klimovich can play top 9 minutes - 15-20 min/game

Dickinson Sutter Motte- good shutdown line- Sutter can take faceoffs for Dickinson - Dickinson can play LW/C, Motte can play LW/RW 

 

If need be - against a team that has too much offensive power- switch Podkolzin and Boeser - they can shut it down as well - let Boeser worry about offence if need be.

 

PP1: 

Horvat Petey Boeser Hoglander Hughes

 

PP2:

Garland Miller Podkolzin OEL --- last spot goes to either Rathbone or Pearson imo

 

[Coconuts]

12 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I agree with Miller.  He's probably the one guy on a big contract that can be moved for a nice piece on defense.  With Horvat, Miller and Höglander all needing new deals in 2 years, there won't be enough money to pay all of them.  Horvat is our captain and leader, so he needs to be a priority signing for Benning.  Höglander is going to be a star and top 6 player for years to come, so we need to secure him with a long term deal.  Miller can be expendable, especially if Gadjovich and Klimovich can step up and become regular top 9 wingers.

 

Miller+ for a nice solid RHD would be the ideal trade to make next summer.

Even if he's not traded for a D I imagine he'll be the odd guy out. He'll be 30 when his deal ends, and while guys aren't immediately worthless at 30, he'll be the oldest member of our top six after Pearson. But the difference between him and Pearson is already 2m, and that number would jump up with any deal that gives him a sizeable raise.

 

Boeser's due for a raise next season, and Juolevi, Rathbone, and Motte will need new deals too. While I could see us moving on from Motte I expect both Juolevi and Rathbone to be re-signed. Horvat, Miller, Hamonic, and Hoglander will need new deals the season after, and if Hoglander performs how I think he can he'll be in line for a solid raise alongside Miller and Horvat. Horvat and Hoglander are no brainers to retain, and Hamonic will need a replacement if he's not retained. Even with Ferland, Luongo, Holtby, and Virtanen coming off the books the next two years that money's gonna have to come from somewhere. 

 

Unless Miller takes another deal relatively close to what he's making now I don't see how we'll be able to afford to keep him. Particularly because of the raises for Horvat and Hoglander, and I could see Horvat getting 7m+. 

 

As Horvat, Pettersson, and Boeser take more of the pie we're going to need cheaper guys in our top six. If we want to improve our D we'll need to allocate money from our top six somehow. This is why drafting, and retaining our picks, is so important. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Coconuts

[IBatch]

All i can say ... it's really really really nice to have cap issues that actually matter again. 

[Patel Bure]

On 10/4/2021 at 4:22 PM, IBatch said:

All i can say ... it's really really really nice to have cap issues that actually matter again. 

Agreed to a certain extent, but I think there's going to be some challenges for the Canucks in terms of getting to that next level.  As it stands right now, I see the Canucks being a 1st round calibre playoff team, but I can't see them progressing beyond that unless.....

 

1) They make more efficient use of Myers' 6 million dollar contract (i.e. get him off the books and replace him with someone better)

 

OR

 

2) At least one of Klimovich or Rathbone becomes good enough to the point where we can trade one of Boeser or Hughes for a top pairing 'defensive' RD.  

 

Beyond that however, I look at this Canucks team and feel that we'll be a 1st round calibre team for the next few years.  Will be very happy to be proven wrong for all the right reasons.

 

I might get flamed for this, but it might even take a Rathbone + Myers, or even a Rathbone + Klimovich + Myers to get an upgrade on RD without having had to give up one of our established core players.  

Edited October 8, 2021 by Patel Bure

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Agreed to a certain extent, but I think there's going to be some challenges for the Canucks in terms of getting to that next level.  As it stands right now, I see the Canucks being a 1st round calibre playoff team, but I can't see them progressing beyond that unless.....

 

1) They make more efficient use of Myers' 6 million dollar contract (i.e. get him off the books and replace him with someone better)

 

OR

 

2) At least one of Klimovich or Rathbone becomes good enough to the point where we can trade one of Boeser or Hughes for a top pairing 'defensive' RD.  

 

Beyond that however, I look at this Canucks team and feel that we'll be a 1st round calibre team for the next few years.  Will be very happy to be proven wrong for all the right reasons.

Me.   I'm not too worried about what happens until it does.   Really tough to make claims about first or second round exits.   I'm still really proud of what our team did in the bubble without fans.   MIN had one of the best defensive teams then ... and we broke through them.   St. Louis just win a cup and was considered a contender a few years before they finally won it.   Beat them too.   Vegas built a contender and will be one for a couple more years at least.   Even without MAF and Stastny etc.  

 

Point is all this team needs now is playoff reps.   As many as possible.   Maybe the cap allows us to have depth and a very deep forward group right now - but you also hope your young guys continue to grow and get better and their window is barely opened as players go.   

 

Myers isn't a cap hindrance on our team.  We have zero going on behind him.   Rathbone IMO is trade bait.   OJ is the guy we probably go with.   QHs/Rathbone ... well we saw how that worked out in the bubble with Stetcher even though he did his best it was murder on him.    We should only keep one of the two. 

 

At this point i'm fairly confident we will make the playoffs.   Once we do then we will see how things work out.    At this point in time, i feel we are about to embark on a run of playoffs that will be on and off for then next 7-8 years if the teams managed well.   Part of that has ti be the willingness to make the tough trades though - and Miller is the guy we need to consider next.   Love him but if it doesn't hurt it's not a trade is it?   We don't need a stellar right side.   All we need is a stellar side.   Our left side has the earmarks to do fine if we are lucky enough.  

[Rindiculous]

There is no trade right now I could see that makes us better by upgrading a player on our right side.  One is we don’t have the cap space.  If we want to improve we’re gonna have to move cap out which will make our team worse.  What contract is a bad one for us right now?  You could argue Myers but he’s already our best right side D which really isn’t the point.  All our forwards are on good to great contracts, and the only questionable ones are on defense and even then if OEL continues like how he’s played in the preseason he’s gonna be a great contract and then Myers as explained above.  So overall I see nowhere to improve by trade above a replacement level D and honestly our right side might not be a disaster.  Yes we don’t have too much depth if either Myers or Poolman go down to injury, but then maybe Hamonic is back sooner than later.  If it takes too long I bet we will be able to put him on LTIR or take him off the books for some other reason and be able to upgrade from there but from where we stand at the moment the team we have looks pretty damn good and looks very hard to improve without making our current squad worse as well as our future which then there’s no point to even trade.

[spook007]

10 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Agreed to a certain extent, but I think there's going to be some challenges for the Canucks in terms of getting to that next level.  As it stands right now, I see the Canucks being a 1st round calibre playoff team, but I can't see them progressing beyond that unless.....

 

1) They make more efficient use of Myers' 6 million dollar contract (i.e. get him off the books and replace him with someone better)

 

OR

 

2) At least one of Klimovich or Rathbone becomes good enough to the point where we can trade one of Boeser or Hughes for a top pairing 'defensive' RD.  

 

Beyond that however, I look at this Canucks team and feel that we'll be a 1st round calibre team for the next few years.  Will be very happy to be proven wrong for all the right reasons.

 

I might get flamed for this, but it might even take a Rathbone + Myers, or even a Rathbone + Klimovich + Myers to get an upgrade on RD without having had to give up one of our established core players.  

Does that not go for everyone on the team, or is it just Myers? I know, there is more money invested in Myers than most, so you'd have more to play with, but players similar to Myers will not come cheap... The last thing we want is to become softer on the backend. 

Agree though that Rathbone will become a trade asset, now that QH has signed for 6 years.

 

Feel that this team deserves a run now, and then we can take stock, before we decide, whom to trade/upgrade on etc....

 

I'm just really pleased, that after listening to 3 years of dooms day fortune cookie sellers, JB still managed to improve the team year after year, while still having zero cap problems... or as @IBatch said, CAP problems that actually matters... 

Edited October 9, 2021 by spook007

[EddieVedder]

On 10/3/2021 at 11:39 AM, Patel Bure said:

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/canucks

 

The Vancouver Canucks and their cap strategy over these coming years

 

As of right now, I am of the belief that we are a 1st round calibre team that will lose to the 1st seeded team in five games.  Our lack of a good ‘defensive minded’ top pairing RD will be our downfall since our two best RD’s, Hamonic and Myers, are #4’s at best.  On the flip side however, I think we will establish ourselves as a playoff calibre team that is past the rebuilding stage and so that’s the good news.

 

My biggest issue with this team now, is how do we go from being 1st rounder fodder, into a 2nd round+++ elite team like Colorado, Vegas, Boston, Tampa, Carolina, NYI, and maybe even a Florida?

 

Most of us know that the obvious answer will be in upgrading our top pairing RD, but how will we go about doing that given our cap structure over these next few years?

 

Boeser will need to re-upped and qualified at 7.5 million minimum, while the promising Jack Rathbone will be scheduled for a raise as well.    While Halak, Sutter, and Motte, can be replaced with Dipietro, and two sub 1 million dollar contracts, which would basically help us pay for Brock, would that really help push us forward?   
 

In the following year after that, Hamonic’s 3 million can be applied towards the raises for both Miller and Horvat, but we’d still need to figure out a way to give Hoglander a raise, as well as, finding a replacement for Hamonic (perhaps Jett Woo internally?).  
 

The main point that I’m getting at is this:  While I’m really happy that the Canucks will likely be playoff bound from here on out, the Canucks will still need to figure out a way as to how to get to the next level while making it work from a cap perspective......and I’m not sure if I see an obvious way in doing that.

 

Walking from JT Miller in two seasons would be an obvious answer, but would anyone here really want to see that given that he is our. It’s versatile player + a natural lockerroom leader?  I don’t.  
 

The only real solution that I see, is if both Klimovich and Rathbone become good enough to the point where....

 

1) Klimovich basically becomes Boeser’s replacement, to which the Canucks then move Boeser for a top pairing “defensive RD” OR a 1st round pick and cap space (assuming that Hughes wasn’t moved for the 1st + cap space).

 

2) Rathbone basically becomes Hughes’ replacement, to which the Canucks then move Hughes for a top pairing “defensive RD” OR a 1st round pick and cap space (assuming that Boeser wasn’t moved for the 1st + cap space).

 

Another more short term oriented solution would be in using someone like Rathbone to be packaged with Tyler Myers for a more immediate upgrade on RD which would give us a greater chances of making a stronger push this season (while figuring out our cap at a later time).

 

It will be interesting to see what happens for sure.  
 

 

Brock is a goner.

Cant have two 1 dimensional players making over 7 mill on same team