[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

If we make the playoffs, fantastic. But I'm skeptical, and my fear is we end up 4-7 points out and in no man's land. A lot of things have to go right for us to make it: we need to heat up, teams in front of us need to lose despite most of the teams we're chasing having games left against each other, we need to stay healthy, and we need the teams we're chasing to lose in regulation. Not a lot of runway left. I don't see us catching LA or Calgary, and if Vegas can simply play .500 hockey that still makes it tough on us. Dallas is surging, Nashville keeps winning, and despite their sliding of late Minnesota has games in hand on everyone around them. Edmonton and Anaheim are still firmly in the mix. 

 

If we make it I'll obviously root for them, but I don't think they will. Hence my focus on trade returns. What's Miller going to think if he misses the playoffs twice in three years with this group? Would management trying to sell him on our being better going forward do the trick? Should we want it to? If he stays and doesn't immediately extend do we risk losing him for nothing if we're in the mix for the playoffs next season? 

I agree and if they're close, but not in a playoff spot I hope they bite the bullet and make the move........their sched after the tdl is rough.

[N4ZZY]

6 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

If we make the playoffs, fantastic. But I'm skeptical, and my fear is we end up 4-7 points out and in no man's land. A lot of things have to go right for us to make it: we need to heat up, teams in front of us need to lose despite most of the teams we're chasing having games left against each other, we need to stay healthy, and we need the teams we're chasing to lose in regulation. Not a lot of runway left. I don't see us catching LA or Calgary, and if Vegas can simply play .500 hockey that still makes it tough on us. Dallas is surging, Nashville keeps winning, and despite their sliding of late Minnesota has games in hand on everyone around them. Edmonton and Anaheim are still firmly in the mix. 

 

If we make it I'll obviously root for them, but I don't think they will. Hence my focus on trade returns. What's Miller going to think if he misses the playoffs twice in three years with this group? Would management trying to sell him on our being better going forward do the trick? Should we want it to? If he stays and doesn't immediately extend do we risk losing him for nothing if we're in the mix for the playoffs next season? 

A part of me thinks that management is going to go for it. And this was my fear all along. Not so far out that it makes management choose to just call it quits and be sellers at the deadline. But we’re not so close that we’re currently in a playoff spot. We’re close in terms of points, but so many teams ahead of us have games in hand, and if they’re winning those games, then there’s really no chance. The Canucks don’t control their own destiny, they have to watch the outside scoreboard and hope that some of the teams with games in hand, lose those GIH’s. 

 

[N4ZZY]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

I honestly don't know how some of these posters think we're signing him for 4 years or $7m. It's like...

 

 

Right? 

 

If Miller is signing, he’s going to be signing for max term, and max money. JT knows that he’s a good player, a really good player. 

 

I mean, if some fans were in JT’s shoes, they’d be signing for short term, and short dollars. Give me a &^@#ing break, man. 

 

[Coconuts]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

I agree and if they're close, but not in a playoff spot I hope they bite the bullet and make the move........their sched after the tdl is rough.

For sure, that last stretch of the end of the month is a doozy. And even leading up to the deadline the only gimme I see is Buffalo. Montreal's been better of late, having gone 7-3 in their last 10 whereas Detroit is a plucky team that plays hard; if some of their OT losses had been wins they'd be a .500 club. Jersey just stomped us.

 

Next month has a lot of divisional matchups, including three against Vegas. Could be huge wins, could be season crushing losses. Between Buffalo, Arizona, and Seattle we've got maybe four gimmes the rest of the way. 

[Coconuts]

5 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

A part of me thinks that management is going to go for it. And this was my fear all along. Not so far out that it makes management choose to just call it quits and be sellers at the deadline. But we’re not so close that we’re currently in a playoff spot. We’re close in terms of points, but so many teams ahead of us have games in hand, and if they’re winning those games, then there’s really no chance. The Canucks don’t control their own destiny, they have to watch the outside scoreboard and hope that some of the teams with games in hand, lose those GIH’s. 

 

Basically, at this point they've got to win more than they lose and hope for the best. And win at a frantic pace no less. 

 

Ending up in no man's land could be disastrous. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Coconuts

[J.I.A.H.N]

I tell you guys. He is going to Columbus..........they got cap space, and are close

 

JT Miller and Tucker Poolman to Columbus

 

for

 

Max Domi,* Corson Ceulemans, and Chicago's 2022- 1st (8th OA)

 

 

JR will have permission to talk about contract before the trade is done.

 

 

This is the best you will see, IMO, and I would take it!

 

 

 

 

[Fanuck]

32 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

If we make the playoffs, fantastic. But I'm skeptical, and my fear is we end up 4-7 points out and in no man's land. A lot of things have to go right for us to make it: we need to heat up, teams in front of us need to lose despite most of the teams we're chasing having games left against each other, we need to stay healthy, and we need the teams we're chasing to lose in regulation. Not a lot of runway left. I don't see us catching LA or Calgary, and if Vegas can simply play .500 hockey that still makes it tough on us. Dallas is surging, Nashville keeps winning, and despite their sliding of late Minnesota has games in hand on everyone around them. Edmonton and Anaheim are still firmly in the mix. 

 

This is exactly where I believe we're headed currently.  We're going to end up in a cycle of mediocrity if something doesn't change and it's exactly the same scenario we were in for so long under the Benning regime sadly.  What's the old saying, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing expecting different results......I just hope that JR/Allvin see that as unsustainable and make the tough choice to change something meaningful with the make-up of this club.  It doesn't necessarily need to be Miller (although he's the most valuable piece that could be moved at this point other than the core 3) but there needs to be a change. 

[T.Demko]

32 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Right? 

 

If Miller is signing, he’s going to be signing for max term, and max money. JT knows that he’s a good player, a really good player. 

 

I mean, if some fans were in JT’s shoes, they’d be signing for short term, and short dollars. Give me a &^@#ing break, man. 

 

What is more ironic is those posters are ones that fight to keep Miller as they believe he is irreplaceable and is a premier power forward in his prime who is a fantastic leader.  I mean, we don't disagree, but if that is who Miller is, he certainly ain't signing for that.  

 

I get people are emotionally attached and doesn't want to assess the situation realistically as it unfavors their narrative, but hey... you gotta face reality at some point.

[Coconuts]

13 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

This is exactly where I believe we're headed currently.  We're going to end up in a cycle of mediocrity if something doesn't change and it's exactly the same scenario we were in for so long under the Benning regime sadly.  What's the old saying, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing expecting different results......I just hope that JR/Allvin see that as unsustainable and make the tough choice to change something meaningful with the make-up of this club.  It doesn't necessarily need to be Miller (although he's the most valuable piece that could be moved at this point other than the core 3) but there needs to be a change. 

Yup, something's going to have to give, if only for the sake of cap flex going forward. Will it be Miller? Garland? Boeser? Hard to say.

 

Doubt it'll be Horvat though, moving him while there's still uncertainty around Miller doesn't make any sense. Trading Bo only to have JT decide he wants to go would be devastating to our ability to compete. 

[Smashian Kassian]

23 hours ago, T.Demko said:

The Miller trade wagon isn't suggesting we will replace Miller with our haul, not at least for the foreseeable future.  We all agree Miller is currently our best forward as well.

 

However, we see a large threat looming when Miller's contract expires, and that is him walking out with us having nothing to show for.  We have seen this story many and recently, even with players that clearly would have had far more tangible and intangible ties to this city.

 

Yes, some may have been due to poor management from the previous group, however it always takes 2 to dance, and there really is no real sign indicating Miller wanting to stay.  All we have received from him are professional comments where he will always play to his best in the given environment.  He is a true professional and we admire him for that.

 

Again, no one is suggesting Miller hates the city and wants out ASAP.  However, even if we had a small chance, what is the premium we have to pay and how is that going to impact us with our team cap structure, which correlates to team composition?  As we all agree, Miller is a premium forward and this will be his chance to really cash in,  and rightfully so, on all his hard work and accomplishments throughout his career so far.  It almost is guaranteed he will want to test the UFA market.  This imposes far too much risk for us.  In this scenario where we lose Miller for nothing, then there is a high chance we end up splurging on another 6 million dollar LE to make up for our loss and our vicious cycle of mediocrity continues.

 

The point being made, we see higher probability of success for our team in cashing Miller out for future vs retaining him for a hope to clinch a playoff spot when we're clearly not yet ready to contend this or the next year.  If that is the case, then we'd rather do it before this TDL so we maximize the value.  However, we're also not agreeing to trade him for scraps for the sake of fulfilling a trade lust.  We just believe, as we all agree on his value, that the right deals will be offered and we should take it.

 

23 hours ago, stawns said:

This

 

I don't agree that it's a guarantee he leaves. He said how much he appreciates Vancouver giving him the opportunity to be a front-line player. Sounds like hes happy with his playing situation to me.

 

You say he hasn't indicated much about whether he'd stay, but I'd suggest he just hasnt indicated much about the situation period. I think we will get a better sense of that in the offseason once he's eligible for an extension.

 

I 100% get not wanting to lose him for nothing, but I don't think we are at that point yet. And even if we did think he's leaving, I'm not totally convinced now is a better time to do it as compared to the summer. In the summer there will be more teams in the mix & a possibility for extension talks. Look what Columbus did with Seth Jones for example.

 

If we are trading him right now it's b/c there's a package available that makes sense/is too good to turn down, not just collecting whatever we can.

 

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

 

I don't agree that it's a guarantee he leaves. He said how much he appreciates Vancouver giving him the opportunity to be a front-line player. Sounds like hes happy with his playing situation to me.

 

You say he hasn't indicated much about whether he'd stay, but I'd suggest he just hasnt indicated much about the situation period. I think we will get a better sense of that in the offseason once he's eligible for an extension.

 

I 100% get not wanting to lose him for nothing, but I don't think we are at that point yet. And even if we did think he's leaving, I'm not totally convinced now is a better time to do it as compared to the summer. In the summer there will be more teams in the mix & a possibility for extension talks. Look what Columbus did with Seth Jones for example.

 

If we are trading him right now it's b/c there's a package available that makes sense/is too good to turn down, not just collecting whatever we can.

 

not a single person has advocated for that

[48MPHSlapShot]

11 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

I 100% get not wanting to lose him for nothing, but I don't think we are at that point yet. And even if we did think he's leaving, I'm not totally convinced now is a better time to do it as compared to the summer

I wouldn't worry about it. I get the sense that there's virtually zero chance Miller is moved at the deadline this year.

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I wouldn't worry about it. I get the sense that there's virtually zero chance Miller is moved at the deadline this year.

hard to say, they've got a rough schedule for here on out.  If they are not in a plyoff spot at the tdl and don't move him and then can't make up ground through a tough post tdl sched and miss the playoffs, they will have squandered a huge opportunity to push this team forward for a decade.  If they are in a playoff spot at the tdl, they should be all in, I agree

[Fanuck]

7 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I wouldn't worry about it. I get the sense that there's virtually zero chance Miller is moved at the deadline this year.

Although he's the most valuable piece on the team (outside of the core 3), I'm ok with not trading Miller at the TDL. 

 

That said, there has to be a trade of some kind imo to address the defence - there's no depth and/or prospects in the organization at this position.  People talk about JR, but it's no guarantee he's going to be an NHL regular at this point let alone the 'impact' player people believe he will be.  If we are to believe JR, in that he feels this team needs a 're-tool' vs. a 're-build', one has to think it involves changing the make-up of the defence group - nobody can convince me that this is a 'Stanley Cup contending level defence' - Demko has been masking this deficiency in this organization for the entire season, how long can that go on? 

[48MPHSlapShot]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

hard to say, they've got a rough schedule for here on out.  If they are not in a plyoff spot at the tdl and don't move him and then can't make up ground through a tough post tdl sched and miss the playoffs, they will have squandered a huge opportunity to push this team forward for a decade.  If they are in a playoff spot at the tdl, they should be all in, I agree

Between BB's endorsement and other teams seemingly unwilling to move their top prospects, my gut is telling me it's not happening either way. 

 

Regardless of whether it's the right move or not, I'll go so far as to say I guarantee he's not being moved at deadline this year. You have full permission to rub my face into it for the rest of time if I'm wrong, but I really don't think I am.

 

 

[Bang Bang Boogie]

32 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

 

I don't agree that it's a guarantee he leaves. He said how much he appreciates Vancouver giving him the opportunity to be a front-line player. Sounds like hes happy with his playing situation to me.

 

You say he hasn't indicated much about whether he'd stay, but I'd suggest he just hasnt indicated much about the situation period. I think we will get a better sense of that in the offseason once he's eligible for an extension.

 

I 100% get not wanting to lose him for nothing, but I don't think we are at that point yet. And even if we did think he's leaving, I'm not totally convinced now is a better time to do it as compared to the summer. In the summer there will be more teams in the mix & a possibility for extension talks. Look what Columbus did with Seth Jones for example.

 

If we are trading him right now it's b/c there's a package available that makes sense/is too good to turn down, not just collecting whatever we can.

 

Miller's value is higher now than it will be in the summer.  Whoever gets him (if he's traded) has him for this year's playoff run plus next season.  Acquiring him in the summer they'll only have him for one season which means lesser trade value for the Canucks.

[Nucker 67]

5 minutes ago, Bang Bang Boogie said:

Miller's value is higher now than it will be in the summer.

2 playoff runs are worth a lot more than just 1, so I agree Miller is worth a lot right now with how he's playing and that sweet contract.  But I assume the only way he's traded at this TDL is if the Canucks get an offer they can't refuse.  A package that includes a young stud D, a top 6 forward prospect/young player and a 1st.  Not sure teams are willing to cough that up.

[Smashian Kassian]

43 minutes ago, stawns said:

not a single person has advocated for that

 

Well, if your entirely ruling out re-signing him then that's the logical conclusion of the position.

 

And if your not, then there's no urgency or reason you must do this now outside of something coming along that you can't refuse.

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Smashian Kassian

[48MPHSlapShot]

16 minutes ago, Bang Bang Boogie said:

Miller's value is higher now than it will be in the summer.  Whoever gets him (if he's traded) has him for this year's playoff run plus next season.  Acquiring him in the summer they'll only have him for one season which means lesser trade value for the Canucks.

The question then becomes "How much less?" 

 

If, for example, the price now is a first, a top prospect and an impact player, but the price next year would only be the first and the prospect, it might still be worth it to management to see if they can get him resigned.

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Well, if your entirely ruling out re-signing him then that's the logical conclusion of the position.

 

And if your not, then there's no urgency or reason you must do this now outside of something coming along that you can't refuse.

 

not even remotely true......myself and others advocating for moving him are doing so for a massive return if that deal is there.