-DLC- Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, stawns said: For the thousands of players who have played this game into their 30's, only a handful have continued to be dominant as they age. If we made a list of players that dominated in their 30's to players who had a steady decline in play, my list would be multitudes longer than yours, not even comparable. JT has had one dominant season in his career, the rest has been average to above average. I was very happy when JB traded for him, one of the few who were completely fine with what they gave and JT has lived up to that deal and that expectation. But the mythology that people have built around him in the last 6 months is laughable and he will almost certainly come down to earth and then start his decline as he enters his 30's. That's just biology You can't apply then and now, it's different. So don't look at "thousands"....keep it relevant and current by looking at what's happening in the here and now. Fitness, training, diet, recovery and rehab all have changed dramatically over the years. Guys used to drink a 6 pack and have a smoke after a steak dinner together. JT's not out there partying every night....a family man with kids. 30 these days depends a lot on lifestyle. Teams that win have older players in the mix, it's not uncommon and actually is likely critical TO their success. What is laughable is that you speak about 30 year olds like they're 80. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 minute ago, stawns said: For the thousands of players who have played this game into their 30's, only a handful have continued to be dominant as they age. If we made a list of players that dominated in their 30's to players who had a steady decline in play, my list would be multitudes longer than yours, not even comparable. JT has had one dominant season in his career, the rest has been average to above average. I was very happy when JB traded for him, one of the few who were completely fine with what they gave and JT has lived up to that deal and that expectation. But the mythology that people have built around him in the last 6 months is laughable and he will almost certainly come down to earth and then start his decline as he enters his 30's. That's just biology I think you need to start with comparables. Find the 29 to 30 year old players that have been able to be in the top 10 in NHL scoring... then see how many decline. Picking thousands of players randomly in their 30s is not comparable at all. A 30 year old Max Lapierre or Cal Clutterbuck doesn't equate to a 30 year old Blake Wheeler. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Just now, -DLC- said: You can't apply then and now, it's different. So don't look at "thousands"....keep it relevant and current by looking at what's happening in the here and now. Teams that win have older players in the mix, it's not uncommon and actually is likely critical TO their success. What is laughable is that you speak about 30 year olds like they're 80. In terms of the NHL, they're in the twilight of their careers. I have zero issues with older players and they are absolutely critical to true contenders, I've never said anything different. In fact when everyone was chomping at the bit to dump all the older players I was one of the few championing the importance of experienced players. Not at $9m+ a year well into their late 30's, however. Thats beyond ridiculous.......moot point anyway as I don't think he likes playing in Canada nor do I think he has any intention of -re-upping with the Canucks..........which is where the whole idea of moving him grew from........ something you seem to not think, or care about. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, HKSR said: I think you need to start with comparables. Find the 29 to 30 year old players that have been able to be in the top 10 in NHL scoring... then see how many decline. Picking thousands of players randomly in their 30s is not comparable at all. A 30 year old Max Lapierre or Cal Clutterbuck doesn't equate to a 30 year old Blake Wheeler. JT Miller has been a good player with average to above average seasons until this one. Hanging your hopes on a player with one great season and expecting that to be the norm, despite the evidence of previous seasons is a fool's errand, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, HKSR said: A 30 year old Max Lapierre or Cal Clutterbuck doesn't equate to a 30 year old Blake Wheeler. The same Blake Wheeler who signed a 5 year contract with a $8.25 M cap hit at 32 years old after coming off his career peak and has steadily declined since? 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Miller should be traded before this TDL so we can get the most assets possible. Waiting is only costing us assets and further delaying the time it takes to get this club back to being a consistent winner. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, stawns said: JT Miller has been a good player with average to above average seasons until this one. Hanging your hopes on a player with one great season and expecting that to be the norm, despite the evidence of previous seasons is a fool's errand, imo. The reality is it is VERY rare that a player that is 29 or 30 is in the top 10 in scoring. That makes them a different beast altogether. You can't generalize when these guys are clearly unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said: The same Blake Wheeler who signed a 5 year contract with a $8.25 M cap hit at 32 years old after coming off his career peak and has steadily declined since? And, not coincidentally, took his team from a real contender to a bubble playoff team along the way 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said: The same Blake Wheeler who signed a 5 year contract with a $8.25 M cap hit at 32 years old after coming off his career peak and has steadily declined since? 45 points in 48 games is an issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Just now, HKSR said: The reality is it is VERY rare that a player that is 29 or 30 is in the top 10 in scoring. That makes them a different beast altogether. You can't generalize when these guys are clearly unique. This is Millers outlier year, nothing else in his career has made him "unique". He's been average to above average until now 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Boudrias Posted March 19, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 19, 2022 22 minutes ago, aGENT said: People putting too much stock in a couple games IMO. Management knows what this team is, what it lacks and what it needs. A couple of games doesn't really change that. IMO, it's all about what offers are, or aren't, on the table. If we're not getting value, we have no urgency to move anyone outside of Motte (and even then I'd let him walk if all we're getting is 4th rounders or something), just for the sake of moving them. We have to trust Rutherford as we did Benning. Losing the next 2 games could trigger a deal. I think you are right JR and group already have a handle on what they have with the current team. Personally I think they have to move Miller because it’s the safest thing to do. Maybe we are surprised by another deal that can partially achieve the desired direction. JR does have some timing flexibility. Canucks do not have the bench strength to consider themselves as anyway a serious contender. Keeping Miller is a gamble on one player’s ability and desire to play in Vancouver. A future concern over Cap hit and longevity. I would opt to move him because the offer would improve the depth and breadth of the talent base. Miller has an admirable will to win but a lot of players do. Whatever deals happen is a real insight into our new management. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Just now, HKSR said: 45 points in 48 games is an issue? And how's the team doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Just now, stawns said: And how's the team doing? great under Boudreau. Did you forget about the Green disaster to start the year? We'd likely be firmly in 3rd place in the pacific if we had Bruce all year, and no one would be talking about a Miller deal. Lets not trade our best F this year based on Green's inability to run this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 minute ago, stawns said: This is Millers outlier year, nothing else in his career has made him "unique". He's been average to above average until now The fact is he's doing something thousands of players could not do at his age. You are just choosing to ignore that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Just now, JM_ said: great under Boudreau. Did you forget about the Green disaster to start the year? We'd likely be firmly in 3rd place in the pacific if we had Bruce all year, and no one would be talking about a Miller deal. Lets not trade our best F this year based on Green's inability to run this team. I meant the Jets, with Wheeler's huge contract, which will be smaller than miller's 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 minute ago, HKSR said: The fact is he's doing something thousands of players could not do at his age. You are just choosing to ignore that. Who in this thread has an issue with this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, stawns said: And how's the team doing? Oh geez.. Wheeler is not the issue in Winnipeg, but go ahead and convince yourself of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Just now, HKSR said: Oh geez.. Wheeler is not the issue in Winnipeg, but go ahead and convince yourself of that. What's the issue then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Just now, stawns said: Who in this thread has an issue with this year? You do. You ignore he's doing this at his age. He's not 24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Just now, stawns said: I meant the Jets, with Wheeler's huge contract, which will be smaller than miller's is Wheeler really the problem in Winnipeg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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