[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Gurn]

Just for fun I went to CapFreindly (I still want to call it Capgeek). To start 2023-24 the Canucks will have 

10 players signed and $33,765 in cap space. Take $7 mill out of that as they have to sign Brock- or his replacement, the year before Horvat and Miller are due.

 

 

Leaves $26 million, to sign.

Bo 

J.T.

Hoglander

and 10 other players including a complete bottom 6 forwards, plus a spare or 2.

a pair of 5/6 d men, plus a spare or 2

and back up goalie

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Actually, there ARE people suggesting moving Petey LOL...

Yes, the one's who refuse to accept moving the obvious square peg, Miller. In the thread about trading Miller.

[sockeye]

5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I don't think there was a single Canucks fan that felt that Green was the right coach for this core. 

 

Trading or keeping Miller on the other hand is a great debate.

Green was only part of the problem. He got them through two playoff rounds in the bubble.
 

The team, as constructed, isn’t good enough - regardless of who is coaching. With Boudreau at the start of the season, I think we could have made the playoffs but we wouldn’t get past the first round.

We need to move some players and get younger and bigger. We need more draft picks and a good young RHD. I doubt we will be competitive for a.few years. We need to retool/rebuild. I see Demko and Hughes as the only untouchables.

 

The alternative is to keep doing what Benning was doing and continue being mediocre to average.

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, gurn said:

Just for fun I went to CapFreindly (I still want to call it Capgeek). To start 2023-24 the Canucks will have 

10 players signed and $33,765 in cap space. Take $7 mill out of that as they have to sign Brock- or his replacement, the year before Horvat and Miller are due.

 

 

Leaves $26 million, to sign.

Bo 

J.T.

Hoglander

and 10 other players including a complete bottom 6 forwards, plus a spare or 2.

a pair of 5/6 d men, plus a spare or 2

and back up goalie

All to stay a stagnant, not good enough, bubble team.

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Yes, the one's who refuse to accept moving the obvious square peg, Miller. In the thread about trading Miller.

Yeah, I'm talking about NOT trading Miller

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Yeah, I'm talking about NOT trading Miller

So you are in the wrong thread?   

[HKSR]

We seem to keep going back to the same thing... you guys don't think this core is good enough.  So 2 things:

 

1.  What if the Canucks have everyone they have now, but Petey and Boeser (not including Bo) are producing at the levels they should be.  Petey at just over a PPG, and Boeser close to a PPG and 30 goal pace. 

 

2.  Now also assume we didn't have to endure .300 hockey with Green to start the first 1/4 of this season.

 

We are at around .500 hockey as is. 

 

So if we believe Petey and Boeser (2 of our main core guys) are gonna regain their form, and that Boudreau knows how to coach this team properly... where do you see us?  Somehow still at .500 hockey?  Does that make any sense to you?

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, gurn said:

So you are in the wrong thread?   

You can't get rid of me that easily... I've wasted all week at work on these forums cuz my boss is away... once he's back, I'll leave lol

[stawns]

20 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Operating on the fact he's gonna want $8M+

So you think this team, with a declining miller and his anchor contract, have what it takes to win the Cup in the next 3-4 years?

 

To me, Miller was never going to be part of the team when they got to contender status

[HKSR]

Just now, stawns said:

So you think this team, with a declining miller and his anchor contract, have what it takes to win the Cup in the next 3-4 years?

 

To me, Miller was never going to be part of the team when they got to contender status

Honestly?  Dunno... we haven't had a chance to really let them build some chemistry.  We've seen what they are capable of... but whether or not they can maintain that over an entire season is up in the air because they were thwarted by covid again.

[aGENT]

5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

We seem to keep going back to the same thing... you guys don't think this core is good enough.  So 2 things:

Nope, the core of Hughes, Petey, Demko and Horvat is fine. Now we need to finish building around them for their prime.

 

5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

So if we believe Petey and Boeser (2 of our main core guys) are gonna regain their form, and that Boudreau knows how to coach this team properly... where do you see us?  Somehow still at .500 hockey?  Does that make any sense to you?

A bubble playoff team with holes, major structural and succession issues with no cap to address them moving forward. And certainly not if we intend to spend even more cap on desperately clinging to aging players who already don't have this team at a level to compete for a cup.

[Gawdzukes]

3 hours ago, grandmaster said:

1) he likes the coach

2) he has good friends on the team

3) he likes the city / good place to raise a family 

 

Those would be the top 3 reasons why he wouldn’t be just all money.

 

Think of it on a personal level. I, myself, have taken less money for a good supervisor, good crew to work with and where I wanted to work. 

 

Money isn’t everything 

 

2 hours ago, grandmaster said:

I’ve explained why ad nau·se·am.

 

 

1. It's possible but he may not care either. Not enough to stay anyway.

2. It's possible again although he doesn't appear overly chummy with anyone. It's also a horrible way to choose where to play when your buddies can be traded at any time. Liking the team a lot and wanting to win would be different. But c'mon is JT looking at the team thinking we're contenders? Doubtful in my opinion, he sure doesn't show it.

3. While Vancouver may be a big city in Canada sorry to burst the bubble but it's small market compared to the USA. It's a coastal city and very beautiful which is nice but it also has crappy weather. Unless Miller and his family absolutely love fishing, camping, and really long highways the city probably isn't a huge draw. While being more desirable than the other Canadian cities it probably pales to living and being in an American market.

 

4. Think of it on a personal level for JT. He never asked to be traded here. He has never come out and made any overly glowing statements about Vancouver, or even hinted remotely that his heart was here and he would like to stay. It's far more likely he'd desire a return to the USA, for a myriad of reasons.

 

I also can't imagine why he wouldn't be somewhat or very concerned about money. It's kind of how a hockey player is defined. I'm sure he wants to get as much as he can. It's an indicator of how good you are when comparing players. Sort of like a badge of honor. It's also for his wife and kids future. Normal people don't just give up millions of dollars, and they aren't bad people as a result. Unless of course you know something the rest of us don't there seem to be more reasons for him to go.

 

I guess the bottom line is unless he states he wants to be here and will do what it takes to do that you would have to silly to not seriously consider trading him.

[Jester13]

10 minutes ago, HKSR said:

We seem to keep going back to the same thing... you guys don't think this core is good enough.  So 2 things:

 

1.  What if the Canucks have everyone they have now, but Petey and Boeser (not including Bo) are producing at the levels they should be.  Petey at just over a PPG, and Boeser close to a PPG and 30 goal pace. 

 

2.  Now also assume we didn't have to endure .300 hockey with Green to start the first 1/4 of this season.

 

We are at around .500 hockey as is. 

 

So if we believe Petey and Boeser (2 of our main core guys) are gonna regain their form, and that Boudreau knows how to coach this team properly... where do you see us?  Somehow still at .500 hockey?  Does that make any sense to you?

I'll agree with the idea that I sure wish our guys would all show up every game, as then I feel as though we're a top ten team in the league. The problem is that we still see too many passengers each game. To me, it's unacceptable for our top guys to only show up now and then. Bo especially, as he's supposed to be our leader, yet he's so inconsistent. When he's on, he's in complete beast mode and can be a difference maker. Unfortunately, the majority of games I see him floating around every shift and just going through the motions. This is why I think management has such a tough decision, because it's very hard to determine who does and does not want to be here. They say they want to win, but then they often don't show up to win. 

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Nope, the core of Hughes, Petey, Demko and Horvat is fine. Now we need to finish building around them for their prime.

 

A bubble playoff team with holes, major structural and succession issues with no cap to address them moving forward. And certainly not if we intend to spend even more cap on desperately clinging to aging players who already don't have this team at a level to compete for a cup.

But this current team is on the bubble right now in regards to the playoffs.  So you're saying Petey at PPG+ and Boeser at a 30 goal pace right now they would still be the same?  So they wouldn't have say 5 to 7 more wins?

[HKSR]

This team under Green this season played .300 hockey.  Simply put, if they just played a BIT better, say .450 hockey, they'd have 3 more wins.

 

If Petey and Boeser didn't have such a crap year together, they'd probably have 30 more points between them and 15+ goals.  That's probably good for at LEAST 5 more wins there.

 

That's 8 wins or 16 points people.  That would put this team in 1st in the division. 

 

I dunno why the same people that expect Petey and Boeser will regain their form after Miller is traded are the same ones that can't see that those 2 regaining their form puts this team right near the top of the league right now.... boggles my mind.

[stawns]

17 minutes ago, HKSR said:

We seem to keep going back to the same thing... you guys don't think this core is good enough.  So 2 things:

 

1.  What if the Canucks have everyone they have now, but Petey and Boeser (not including Bo) are producing at the levels they should be.  Petey at just over a PPG, and Boeser close to a PPG and 30 goal pace. 

 

2.  Now also assume we didn't have to endure .300 hockey with Green to start the first 1/4 of this season.

 

We are at around .500 hockey as is. 

 

So if we believe Petey and Boeser (2 of our main core guys) are gonna regain their form, and that Boudreau knows how to coach this team properly... where do you see us?  Somehow still at .500 hockey?  Does that make any sense to you?

so how do you see them going about supporting that core?  They're going to need 4-5 dmen, and probably 4-5 good to very good fwds to support Miller, Horvat, Petey, Demko and Hughes, who will take up about 40% of the cap once Bo and Miller re-sign.  Cup winners don't have half assed support players and this core would need 18 players to support that core

[aGENT]

5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

But this current team is on the bubble right now in regards to the playoffs.  So you're saying Petey at PPG+ and Boeser at a 30 goal pace right now they would still be the same?  So they wouldn't have say 5 to 7 more wins?

We're probably on the positive side of that ledger, but we're still hovering around it.

 

This team is nowhere near a contender as built. And with the very real structural and succession issues is going to get worse, not better over the next couple years, if we try to maintain rather than take the necessary steps to actually compete mid-term.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

This team under Green this season played .300 hockey.  Simply put, if they just played a BIT better, say .450 hockey, they'd have 3 more wins.

 

If Petey and Boeser didn't have such a crap year together, they'd probably have 30 more points between them and 15+ goals.  That's probably good for at LEAST 5 more wins there.

 

That's 8 wins or 16 points people.  That would put this team in 1st in the division. 

 

I dunno why the same people that expect Petey and Boeser will regain their form after Miller is traded are the same ones that can't see that those 2 regaining their form puts this team right near the top of the league right now.... boggles my mind.

I think we all agree with "what could have been" if they'd played better early in the season.  But they didn't and now this management group has a window of 50 some days to pivot the course of this franchise with 2-3 good moves.

[HKSR]

Just now, stawns said:

so how do you see them going about supporting that core?  They're going to need 4-5 dmen, and probably 4-5 good to very good fwds to support Miller, Horvat, Petey, Demko and Hughes, who will take up about 40% of the cap once Bo and Miller re-sign.  Cup winners don't have half assed support players and this core would need 18 players to support that core

Read the post above yours.  I just talked about how I feel about this team.

 

They're a lot better than people are giving them credit for.  Petey and Boeser not playing to their level is the primary driver of ALL of this.  If  those 2 are playing good hockey and we don't start the year playing .300 hockey, we're a helluva team.  That will only get better as the team gels, and the young guys begin to break out.

[stawns]

Just now, aGENT said:

We're probably on the positive side of that ledger, but we're still hovering around it.

 

This team is nowhere near a contender as built. And with the very real structural and succession issues is going to get worse, not better over the next couple years, if we try to maintain rather than take the necessary steps to actually compete mid-term.

as I've said before, I think that this deadline was probably a big one in JB's plan as well.  He saw 2-3 years down the line as when this team would mature and contend and I doubt he saw Miller or Boeser as part of that team.