[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[Gurn]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What makes Bo overthe Miller time here the better of two?  Miller is a consistent ppg player, who makes those around him better offensively.  Love Bo, but he’s not been the level of Miller.  

If points were the only thing that mattered- you might have a point.

But there is more to the game than points, otherwise there would be no goalies in the league, or defencemen either.

In all things not point related, Miller is the lesser player.

He is older.

He will soon be our highest paid guy.

He is a worse defensive player than Bo- who isn't a great defender to start with.

 

Miller does pass Bo in terms of yelling and flexing, and giving up on back checking, even though, again Bo isn't the greatest defender.

 

Imo the team signed the wrong guy, and they likely won't be able to fix that error.

Could be entering a dark, dark time, over the next few years.

 

[Fanuck]

38 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What makes Bo overthe Miller time here the better of two?  Miller is a consistent ppg player, who makes those around him better offensively.  Love Bo, but he’s not been the level of Miller.  

Miller's not even the level you say Miller is at though,  he's nowhere near consistent ppg, and he doesn't raise his teammates like some people claim. 

 

Imo, long-term, we'd be way better off with the collection of assets we could've potentially had by trading both players,  but alas....

[aGENT]

Just now, Fanuck said:

Miller's not even the level you say Miller is at though,  he's nowhere near consistent ppg, and he doesn't raise his teammates like some people claim. 

 

Imo, long-term, we'd be way better off with the collection of assets we could've potentially had by trading both players,  but alas....

May yet come to that. Miller wasn't on the "safe list" and Horvat may force their hand.

 

I have no idea which if either of those guys will be here after the TDL...whatever shakes out will sure be interesting though. And thank Gordie for that, it'll be more interesting than the hockey they're playing this season .... 

[Rick_theRyper]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

 

I mean we don't really need a FULL tear down rebuild, so I get the assessment to retool (and I think it's silly people think Rutherford would allow himself to be lead around to the degree some here do).

 

Guys I'd keep and retool around:

 

Mik, Pettersson, Kuz

____, Horvat, ____ 

Podkolzin, ____, Hoglander

Lazar, Aman, Studnicka/Joshua

 

Hughes, ____

OEL, Bear

Dermott, Schenn/Poolman(healthy)

Stillman, Burroughs

 

We desperately need a 3C and a top 4 RHD (two if we could more ideally push Bear to 3rd pair...boy that Zub signing stings) and of course this is dependent on the bolded Horvat and Kuz extending...but that's really not that undo-able. For all the whinging, we're really not that far off from a better team with much better fits throughout the lineup.

 

And those 4th liners and bottom 4 D are all pretty fluid (I'm not suggesting we keep them at all costs).

 

It gets a bit tricky in that guys like Myers/Pearson aren't likely moveable until next year and we don't know what's happening with Horvat/Kuz...but all in due time. We need a couple more fast, younger, two way guys with size like Mik on wing in the middle 6 subbed out for the likes of Boeser, Garland, Pearson and Miller. But wingers are the easiest pieces to acquire and we have a few developing to help fill that in as well. This is where management is likely looking to make those "hockey trades" IMO. You swap out a 25+ goal/60 point ceiling guy like Boeser for lower offensive ceiling but faster/grittier/better defensively ~20 goal/45 point guy for example.

 

Beyond that, we need to keep improving and deepening our prospect pool.

 

Now, like I said, Kuz and Horvat especially extending (or not) complicate matters. I'd far rather see us move Miller and extend Bo...but I may not get my wish on that. Unfortunately that ship may have sailed last summer sadly. And in that case, we'll have to see what management does to pivot there. That happening may force us to re-something deeper than they planned. That said, Horvat and Kuz going at the TDL likely brings back some solid pieces to kick start that as well (Horvat for Drury, Morrow and 1st/Seeley or similar for example).

 

I get the impatience...I think they F'd up this summer with extending Miller, missing out on Marino, and likely extending Bo closer to $7, and this "hockey" they're presently playing is next to unwatchable nor leading us anywhere near playoffs or a cup this season. But we're going to have to wait until closer to the TDL unfortunately before we start seeing things take shape and likely next year before we get better fits than Myers and Pearson.

I agree with the way you think bud cheers

[86Viking]

2 hours ago, Gurn said:

019-20	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	69	27	45	72	47	11	17	6	12	18	14
2020-21	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	53	15	31	46	43	-7	--	--	--	--	--
2021-22	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	80	32	67	99	47	15	--	--	--	--	--
2022-23	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	31	11	16	27	28	-11

 

Wasn't a point a game in 20-21, not a point a game this year; and only here 4 years.

if you do the average over all seasons he is ppg, but hey let's nitpick on the of the seasons instead. Point is Miller has scored more than Bo, so he was signed first for better or worse that is what happened. Bo is NOT worth 8-9m based of a career goal scoring year in his contract year... Canucks should've locked Bo up just over 7m in the summer and traded JT but team chose a different route and we as fans are all still wondering what is going on.

 

JR has been pretty quiet of late, he sure talked a big game when he arrived but hasn't done anything to change the team in a positive way...all talk I guess? Changes need to happen, probably something happens by mid January then more near the TDL

[Fanuck]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

...whatever shakes out will sure be interesting though. And thank Gordie for that, it'll be more interesting than the hockey they're playing this season 

I'm not sure it'll be very interesting if they sign Bo, keep Miller and trade our upcoming 1st for a grossly overpaid veteran to execute FA's playoffs at all costs master plan, would it?

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Fanuck said:

I'm not sure it'll be very interesting if they sign Bo, keep Miller and trade our upcoming 1st for a grossly overpaid veteran to execute FA's playoffs at all costs master plan, would it?

Well the reaction sure will be 

 

I can't imagine they're THAT deluded but I've been wrong once or twice before. 

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, Neutral said:

if you do the average over all seasons he is ppg, but hey let's nitpick on the of the seasons instead.

Thank you ever so much for responding, it is great to se you post something; rather than just leaving a bag emoji, multiple times, over multpiple threads.

Irony is, here you are 'nitpicking' over a post.

cheers.

[Fanuck]

7 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I can't imagine they're THAT deluded but I've been wrong once or twice before. 

Can't blame me for just going off what's happened here for the past decade.....JR talks a BIG game but has done virtually nothing to meaningfully improve this club unfortunately - their record speaks for itself sadly. 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Fanuck said:

Can't blame me for just going off what's happened here for the past decade.....JR talks a BIG game but has done virtually nothing to meaningfully improve this club unfortunately - their record speaks for itself sadly. 

Past decade isn't really the responsibility of this management group. But believe me, I get it and there's still plenty to be critical of.

 

I was disappointed seeing us extend Miller to a retirement deal knowing the cap crunch that was coming and he didn't fit the timeline, not get assets for him, not extending Bo for cheaper in the summer, not pick up Marino for the equivalent of Rathbone and a 3rd with that cap space. All while not moving either Garland or Boeser, while also adding Mik and Kuz (both of whom I like) and doing next to nothing about the D until Bear (which while decent, is still a bit of a half measure).

 

Mik, Kuz and Bear are all decent additions, all in the right direction...but those needed to be followed up with other moves.... We're still waiting for those. 

 

 

 

[Fanuck]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Past decade isn't really the responsibility of this management group.

But it is on ownership, no?  

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

But it is on ownership, no?  

Sure... But i don't buy the Rutherford being lead around by the nose theory. As I outlined last page, a retool makes the most sense given some of the pieces we have. There's a solid team underneath the roster holes, ill fitting pieces and inefficient cap. It's not Aqua forcing Rutherford and Co's hand.

 

Now that could change should Pettersson want out, but right now you manage the team based on retaining your best player and having solid, young pieces in place.

[Fanuck]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 but right now you manage the team based on retaining your best player and having solid, young pieces in place.

We already have Demko locked up, now what?

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

We already have Demko locked up, now what?

[Nucker 67]

They've got to lock Petey up long term this summer. Get it out of the way early. 

 

Thoughts of where Bo could go (and who I'd like coming back+). I think he's headed east.

 

BOS - Lysell

BUF - Cozens or Kulich

DET - Kasper or Edvinsson (VAN isn't getting Seider)

CAR - Necas

CBJ - Johnson or Sillinger (VAN isn't getting Jiricek)

NYI - Raty or Wahlstrom or Bolduc (VAN isn't getting Dobson)

PIT - Joseph or Pickering

 

Really hoping JR/PA don't settle for a pile of scraps, just so they can get another A+ on their cap management.  The Canucks need more high end prospects/young players.

 

[R3aL]

6 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

They've got to lock Petey up long term this summer. Get it out of the way early. 

 

Thoughts of where Bo could go (and who I'd like coming back+). I think he's headed east.

 

BOS - Lysell

BUF - Cozens or Kulich

DET - Kasper or Edvinsson (VAN isn't getting Seider)

CAR - Necas

CBJ - Johnson or Sillinger (VAN isn't getting Jiricek)

NYI - Raty or Wahlstrom or Bolduc (VAN isn't getting Dobson)

PIT - Joseph or Pickering

 

Really hoping JR/PA don't settle for a pile of scraps, just so they can get another A+ on their cap management.  The Canucks need more high end prospects/young players.

 

Buffalo is an interesting spot because they have:

 

Cozens

Krebs

Savoie

Ostlund

Kulich

 

Wealth of C depth prospects.

[steviewonder20]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

I thought ther3 was little chance JT extends with us.  Not because he’s American, but because he has no permanent home in our city.  Wrong.  He not only signed here, but he did for a great deal for us.  I’m thinking we will re-sign Bo soon too.  Similar contract to JT.  56 million, but over 8 years. 

I’d keep Bo over JT but since that ship has sailed, I would rather get a 3C, a top 4 rhd and a 1st round pick for Bo.

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

12 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

They've got to lock Petey up long term this summer. Get it out of the way early. 

 

Thoughts of where Bo could go (and who I'd like coming back+). I think he's headed east.

 

BOS - Lysell

BUF - Cozens or Kulich

DET - Kasper or Edvinsson (VAN isn't getting Seider)

CAR - Necas

CBJ - Johnson or Sillinger (VAN isn't getting Jiricek)

NYI - Raty or Wahlstrom or Bolduc (VAN isn't getting Dobson)

PIT - Joseph or Pickering

 

Really hoping JR/PA don't settle for a pile of scraps, just so they can get another A+ on their cap management.  The Canucks need more high end prospects/young players.

 

I would scratch Cozens off that list. No way Buffalo is trading a point-per-game power forward.

[R3aL]

3 minutes ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

I would scratch Cozens off that list. No way Buffalo is trading a point-per-game power forward.

They have so many C prospects and Mittlestadt is rather middling.

 

Could they want to have Tage / Cozens / Horvat down the middle?

 

It doesn't really make sense though if they lock those three up then they are pushing all the ELC C prospects to the wings or as trade chips. But I dont know only reason I considered it was just because they have so many interesting C pieces and the silly comment about Bo like a younger  O'Reilly comment made me wonder if STL or Buffalo had their eyes on him.

Edited December 22, 2022 by R3aL

[aGENT]

19 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

They've got to lock Petey up long term this summer. Get it out of the way early. 

 

Thoughts of where Bo could go (and who I'd like coming back+). I think he's headed east.

 

BOS - Lysell

BUF - Cozens or Kulich

DET - Kasper or Edvinsson (VAN isn't getting Seider)

CAR - Necas

CBJ - Johnson or Sillinger (VAN isn't getting Jiricek)

NYI - Raty or Wahlstrom or Bolduc (VAN isn't getting Dobson)

PIT - Joseph or Pickering

 

Really hoping JR/PA don't settle for a pile of scraps, just so they can get another A+ on their cap management.  The Canucks need more high end prospects/young players.

 

I like CAR as fit...but no chance they give up Necas (or Jarvis). Morrow, Drury and 1st...maybe Seeley/Nikishin if we retain or throw in Schenn.