Next Up - Boeser -- Re-Sign or Trade

[Guest]

6 hours ago, kilgore said:

 

What's more important is how they are developing their game when they are healthy.  And from my own eye test, which y'all may not see the same, Brock seems to be regressing at the simple, "little things".   Taking a pass, Recovering a puck. Passing under pressure. Getting stick checked (protecting the puck). And lack of speed.  I'm not happy I have this opinion of Brock's play. I really really want to support him. He's so likeable.  But in the interests of the team, I think if we can get a good haul for him this summer, management should pull the trigger.  I just don't see him getting any faster, in regards to skating and coming away with the puck in a battle.  Just from my own observations.  

It's not just your own observation, I have noticed the same thing.  However there is an uncanny skill in hockey that Boeser posesses. When scramble plays happen, some players are really good at always coming away with the puck and that's one of Brock's strengths besides his quick finishing. 

 

He's really an elite poacher, but I do think that he's priced himself out of Vancouver with his last deal.  I would take him back on a 5 mil/year deal and not anything over that.  I know that he could get more around the league and perhaps may be worth it, but he's a straight-forward way for us to cut some cap and acquire a few futures by shedding a winger (our position of relative strength).  

 

If he's looking for 6 mil/year, I would sign that deal with the intention of trading him.  

[EddieVedder]

8 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Here's some factual numbers I ran a few days ago during the Dallas game to put Brocks value into perspective for the BB kool-aid drinkers.   This is not an endorsement of Chiasson either - rather, just a comparison to show that Brock's goal value isn't even remotely close to a random, distant/borderline 4th liner on the team (in fact his goals cost almost 5 times what Chiasson's cost) and he only brings one thing to the table: Shooting,  because he offers little else other than that, as he can's skate, stickhandle, back-check, lacks creativity and is slow as mollases and he's losing his hair (yes, that's a joke).    So, he is of extremely poor "value".  If you were running a business and you had these factual results in front of you, I think you'd be quick to dispose of him too.  It makes no economic/strategic sense to keep him for the cost involved.

 

Chiasson: Salary: $  750,000/Yr     Goals:12      Price per Goal: $  62,500 

Boesser:  Salary: $5,875,000/Yr     Goals:20      Price per Goal: $293,750  (With 50% more Ice Time than Chiasson !)

 

If anyone try's to tell me Brock is going to be a steal with his upcoming $7.8 Million Dollar QH, I'll laugh myself silly!

 

PREDICTION: BROCK BOESER HAS 5 GAMES REMAINING WITH THIS FRANCHISE!

Thanks for being one of the few ppl in this thread with any brain cells.

[Ballisticsports.]

On 4/20/2022 at 12:06 PM, RU SERIOUS said:

Here's some factual numbers I ran a few days ago during the Dallas game to put Brocks value into perspective for the BB kool-aid drinkers.   This is not an endorsement of Chiasson either - rather, just a comparison to show that Brock's goal value isn't even remotely close to a random, distant/borderline 4th liner on the team (in fact his goals cost almost 5 times what Chiasson's cost) and he only brings one thing to the table: Shooting,  because he offers little else other than that, as he can's skate, stickhandle, back-check, lacks creativity and is slow as mollases and he's losing his hair (yes, that's a joke).    So, he is of extremely poor "value".  If you were running a business and you had these factual results in front of you, I think you'd be quick to dispose of him too.  It makes no economic/strategic sense to keep him for the cost involved.

 

Chiasson: Salary: $  750,000/Yr     Goals:12      Price per Goal: $  62,500 

Boesser:  Salary: $5,875,000/Yr     Goals:20      Price per Goal: $293,750  (With 50% more Ice Time than Chiasson !)

 

If anyone try's to tell me Brock is going to be a steal with his upcoming $7.8 Million Dollar QH, I'll laugh myself silly!

 

PREDICTION: BROCK BOESER HAS 5 GAMES REMAINING WITH THIS FRANCHISE!

While I was surprised when i read my underlined part  below

I don't think Boeser fits the type of player that the new management wants to commit big money to moving forward

Given how cap-strapped the Canucks are, and how injuries have seemingly lowered Boeser's ceiling thus far, there's a legitimate risk to devoting big money and term  to him in the immediate future. 

The underlying numbers aren't exactly glowing, either. The Canucks generate less than half of the expected goals in Boeser's even-strength minutes this season, and surrendering the lion's share of high-danger scoring chances, as well. 

[EddieVedder]

8 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

While I was surprised when i read my underlined part  below

I don't think Boeser fits the type of player that the new management wants to commit big money to moving forward

Given how cap-strapped the Canucks are, and how injuries have seemingly lowered Boeser's ceiling thus far, there's a legitimate risk to devoting big money and term  to him in the immediate future. 

The underlying numbers aren't exactly glowing, either. The Canucks generate less than half of the expected goals in Boeser's even-strength minutes this season, and surrendering the lion's share of high-danger scoring chances, as well. 

Thank you.

You wont see any type of logical response from a Boeser lover.  Maybe a few excuses and a couple 'but but but he played good in his rookie season.''

The nucks need an elite winger.  You cant allocate 5 to 8 mil on a player like Boeser who does so little with the opportunity hes given.

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

Thank you.

You wont see any type of logical response from a Boeser lover.  Maybe a few excuses and a couple 'but but but he played good in his rookie season.''

The nucks need an elite winger.  You cant allocate 5 to 8 mil on a player like Boeser who does so little with the opportunity hes given.

We had a chance to trade both Boeser and Miller at the last TDL as rentals.  Big return.  Missed opportunity.  Now they are both worth a lot less.  Bess might be worth next to nothing.  

[BPA]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

We had a chance to trade both Boeser and Miller at the last TDL as rentals.  Big return.  Missed opportunity.  Now they are both worth a lot less.  Bess might be worth next to nothing.  

I think Boeser has maxed out his potential here in Vancouver.  He’s a 20g 50pt player (this season being a down year).  He’s often injured as he has played a full season.  His worth is around $5M-$6M.

 

In a trade, he’d get a B prospect and a late 1st / high 2nd.

[Boudrias]

I like Boeser and can see the potential in his game. He is frustrating to watch as he regularly loses body position and neutralizes his game. That doesn’t mean he cannot still improve. I just wonder about his mental game. 

[RU SERIOUS]

4 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

I like Boeser and can see the potential in his game. He is frustrating to watch as he regularly loses body position and neutralizes his game. That doesn’t mean he cannot still improve. I just wonder about his mental game. 

It's funny you ask because a few months ago, someone posted a rare insight a brain scan into the inner workings of Brock's one dimensional world of only being a SHOOTER. 

I managed to find it and repost.......

 

 

 

[Boudrias]

10 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

It's funny you ask because a few months ago, someone posted a rare insight a brain scan into the inner workings of Brock's one dimensional world of only being a SHOOTER. 

I managed to find it and repost.......

 

 

 

Yikes! Those long Minny winter nights leds to being a hugger rather than a lone wolf. Not enough battle in Brock to date. He has to take a nasty course or two.

[HKSR]

Just for information, I would probably place Boeser's value similar to Buchnevich when he was traded to St Louis.  Just a bit less.

 

Buchnevich - 54 games, 20 goals, 48 points in his contract year.  RFA.  However, much lower QO.

Boeser - 67 games, 21 goals, 44 points in contract year.  RFA.  Much higher QO.

 

Buchnevich was traded for Blais and a 2nd. 

Blais - 36 games, 8 goals, 15 points (that's an 18 goal, 34 point campaign pace)

 

So Boeser?  3rd liner + 3rd round pick maybe? 

 

Also interesting to note that Buchnevich then signed a new deal that kicked in for 2021-22 at $5.8M AAV.  So how Boeser could want more than $6M would be beyond me.

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by HKSR

[BPA]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

Just for information, I would probably place Boeser's value similar to Buchnevich when he was traded to St Louis.  Just a bit less.

 

Buchnevich - 54 games, 20 goals, 48 points in his contract year.  RFA.  However, much lower QO.

Boeser - 67 games, 21 goals, 44 points in contract year.  RFA.  Much higher QO.

 

Buchnevich was traded for Blais and a 2nd. 

Blais - 36 games, 8 goals, 15 points (that's an 18 goal, 34 point campaign pace)

 

So Boeser?  3rd liner + 3rd round pick maybe? 

 

Also interesting to note that Buchnevich then signed a new deal that kicked in for 2021-22 at $5.8M AAV.  So how Boeser could want more than $6M would be beyond me.

 

Nice find.  Good comparable.  Buch was a 40pt player prior to this year.  But I think up to $6M is justified as Boeser as he had a couple 50pt seasons.  Anything above that is a no go for me too.

 

Buch had a career year with St Louis (73pts).  So worth it if he can continue that pace.  Lucky that St Louis has him locked up for 3 more years at that cap hit.

[Bobby James]

6 hours ago, Alflives said:

We had a chance to trade both Boeser and Miller at the last TDL as rentals.  Big return.  Missed opportunity.  Now they are both worth a lot less.  Bess might be worth next to nothing.

mmm I dunno if this is true. I think management was open to moving either, but didn't get good enough offers for either player that justified moving them and stopping their playoff push. 

 

But if you have any info/source on them (Canucks) turning down a big return on Boeser or Miller please share it, that would be interesting to hear. 

[BabychStache]

I don't really know how the QO thing works. Could the Canucks offer him $6 x 5? Or do they have to match his QO?

[BPA]

25 minutes ago, BabychStache said:

I don't really know how the QO thing works. Could the Canucks offer him $6 x 5? Or do they have to match his QO?

Yes the Canucks can offer him $6M x 5yrs.  Not sure if the team have to submit the QO if a different offer is on the table though.  If so, then the QO needs to be submitted in order to retain his rights so he doesn’t automatically become a UFA.

[Phat Fingers]

We have a very promising young power forward that ads a needed forecheck and physical play that needs time, we have a player that can produce 20 goals in the same ice time for 4.5 m and plays a two way game in Garland. 
 

Hoglander is another cost controlled option. 
 

So Brock, who was the biggest early disappointment in our forwards this year outside of Dickinson and also up and down with Pearson.  
 

So do we free up a top six spot for Vasily and is it better to send out Brock, Garland or Pearson. 
 

Sure move Pearson, and that is a big help.  That is for a 2nd round pick if we are lucky or cap dump, as we need space.  But no on ice up grades. Chiasson makes Pearson an expensive player if Chiasson can be resigned for a raise but club friendly deal.  
 

that’s not a bad plan, if the club thinks they have a prospect ready to take up the RHD spot we need so badly for Hughes.  
 

Garland is a great role model for Hoglander, who won’t have a long career if he doesn’t start the consistent aggressive puck attacking play without the puck that Garland excels in.  Vasily too.  
 

The club could land the player we need for Hughes or climb the draft or add another first, all could be asset return that could address the last unicorn for the Canucks, the true top pairing RHD we have been hoping would one day arrive.  
 

It’s a prophecy… in deep dark CDC lore, when we finally have a coach, President and GM the Hockey Media doesn’t some how hate for some reason, then the Hockey Gods will reveal the secret of drafting and developing RHD and defensemen in general… I think that Tanev smoked a cigarette playing a game in the SC finals as a rookie and it was like Moses and the Ten Commandments or something… 

 

The point is, that Brock gives the biggest Salary relief and will get a good return and it’s a good test for Alvin.  Let’s see what Rutherford and Co can do.  They have a lot to work with.  

 
 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Phat Fingers

[mikeyman109]

14 hours ago, BabychStache said:

I don't really know how the QO thing works. Could the Canucks offer him $6 x 5? Or do they have to match his QO?

a team can offer anything they want but the player has the choice to accept it or not. If the Canucks do not match the QO of 7.5 million and there is no accepted contract offer Brock would become a free agent and we lose his rights.

Brock and his agent may choose to wait and either be qualified or see what is out there for the player on the open market. He would garner at least what others are offering here as potential contracts.

I see there being three or four things in play here.

1 they offer the QO and Brock accepts it in a show me year for a new contract.7.5 million cap hit.

2 The team signs BB to a longer deal at less money which is great for the team but not so great for the player.its possible but i doubt this happens

3 they sign him to QO and take him to arbitration to lower the cost. This is very likely.

4 they walk away from Brock for the cap space unless there is a trade offer for the player. Highly unlikely as teams will wait to see if you walk away.

 

Its going to get messy with this player unfortunately. Brock seems like a good kid, he just is caught up in the cap crunch and has a bad contract for his play.

Edited April 23, 2022 by mikeyman109

[EddieVedder]

On 4/20/2022 at 8:48 PM, VancouverHabitant said:

It's not just your own observation, I have noticed the same thing.  However there is an uncanny skill in hockey that Boeser posesses. When scramble plays happen, some players are really good at always coming away with the puck and that's one of Brock's strengths besides his quick finishing. 

 

He's really an elite poacher, but I do think that he's priced himself out of Vancouver with his last deal.  I would take him back on a 5 mil/year deal and not anything over that.  I know that he could get more around the league and perhaps may be worth it, but he's a straight-forward way for us to cut some cap and acquire a few futures by shedding a winger (our position of relative strength).  

 

If he's looking for 6 mil/year, I would sign that deal with the intention of trading him.  

No one is going to trade for a useless player making 6 mil.  

[CanuckFan1123]

I think Brock has a ton of value to the team and is a great asset. I wouldn’t want to trade him and I don’t know that he would command a huge amount in a trade. Best case scenario is Brock signs a 4 or 5 year deal in the 5.5-6 mil range. I think it’s fair for him and the team. The QO should not play any role as he has not lived up to it. 

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, CanuckFan1123 said:

I think Brock has a ton of value to the team and is a great asset. I wouldn’t want to trade him and I don’t know that he would command a huge amount in a trade. Best case scenario is Brock signs a 4 or 5 year deal in the 5.5-6 mil range. I think it’s fair for him and the team. The QO should not play any role as he has not lived up to it. 

One thing we do have a new edge with - is Allvin is not Jim Benning.   Of course he has to honour the CBA (unlike the debacle with Yashin in OTT, where he was promised one thing, a new GM came in and said no way i'm not doing that) this one's in writing.    Where Allvin has leverage is if Brock wants to remain with his pals and be part of its ascent.   If Brocks agent is a dick like last time ... arbitration and a trade is likely.   If he's not...i think Allvin would offer him a 4 year deal.  Making what he is now and that's buying two UFA years. 

 

Edit:  I really don't think Brock has earned much of a raise even on a long term deal.   He's been injured 4/5 years now.    Down the stretch twice when we could use him as well (no TT trade).... paying for his prime years comes at some risk - modest ones because of the injuries and bad summer prep or something (maybe coaching but his best season was last years - was a hint of what he could become, for sure one of or close to if not our best forward and not just points)....  

 

Brock takes one year then he's betting on himself.    A career ending injury could occur.   No contract to insure after is there?   Taking a 24-27 4-5 year deal is also in his best interest as well.  

Edited April 24, 2022 by IBatch

[EddieVedder]

10 hours ago, CanuckFan1123 said:

I think Brock has a ton of value to the team and is a great asset. I wouldn’t want to trade him and I don’t know that he would command a huge amount in a trade. Best case scenario is Brock signs a 4 or 5 year deal in the 5.5-6 mil range. I think it’s fair for him and the team. The QO should not play any role as he has not lived up to it. 

What value does he have? How is he a great asset?  Giving 5+ mil for a player that does so little with the opportunity he gets is what will kill this team.