IBatch Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, FaninMex said: How many 4th round picks become anything? From around 22/23 of the first round until the end of the second round is 50% play 100 games. JV .. know all that crap - but he was actually on pace to make the average or PAR for a sixth overall. 400 NHL games. Covid and his issues screwed that...and wow did he ever get dumped on. People need to actually learn about this before posting. Bear beat the second rounder expectations ... sure someone could be better. But they most likely are not. Vey is one of the KHL's better players now. Just goes to show how close these guys are. As far as Brock goes, not only is he on an exclusive list for most points by a Canuck first 200 NHL games, he's also a total rarity given his draft slot. And some folks just keep slamming him over and over again. If he was drafted in the 7th round like Hansen was ... would anyone be doing that? They really shouldn't be regardless. Brocks probably going to end up playing at least 800 games in the best league in the world. Maybe even 1000. Edited March 28, 2022 by IBatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, FaninMex said: How many 4th round picks become anything? The last 3rd round pick we've had that's made a good career was Nonis with Edler...the third round is 12.5% plays 100 games. People constantly overrate draft picks on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, FaninMex said: How many 4th round picks become anything? I couldn’t care less. You’re talking about cupboards when our top prospect is a 4th round pick PPG rookie dman in the AHL. point is, you can find some promising players there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: I couldn’t care less. You’re talking about cupboards when our top prospect is a 4th round pick PPG rookie dman in the AHL. point is, you can find some promising players there. Here's a list of 4th rounders currently playing in the NHL. Sure it's a long shot, but it still happens and sometimes, overwhelmingly so. https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl-draft/en/round/4-round-draft-picks-active-players-all-time-games-played-leaders.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 5 hours ago, Gawdzukes said: Very we'll said. Glad management has some balls, and wisdom. Balls of wisdom or wisdom balls if you will. Balls to the wall man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, FaninMex said: A 4th round pick does nothing for the team's cupboards Gaudreau is 3rd in league scoring with 90pts Devon Toews is a top pairing D for Colorado Drake Batherson was over ppg and going to the All Star game before a stupid play cut his season short Slavin is considered one of the best defensive Ds in the game Alex Carrier and Ekholm are top-4 Ds for Nashville Ben Chiarot just brought back a 1st round pick Toronto is convinced Bunting will win the Calder Arvidsson, Nyquist, Andrew Copp, Pageau, Marcus Foligno TJ Brodie, Ryan Graves Several here would like to bring in Nick Paul. Edited March 28, 2022 by mll 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, mll said: Gaudreau is 3rd in league scoring with 90pts Devon Toews is a top pairing D for Colorado Drake Batherson was over ppg and going to the All Star game before a stupid play cut his season short Slavin is considered one of the best defensive Ds in the game Alex Carrier and Ekholm are top-4 Ds for Nashville Ben Chiarot just brought back a 1st round pick Toronto is convinced Bunting will win the Calder Arvidsson, Nyquist, Andrew Copp TJ Brodie, Ryan Graves Several here would like to bring in Nick Paul. Ok - now list the rest of them. They are called lottery tickets for a reason. We would need 8 fourth round picks, on average, to produce about one guy that plays 100NHL games. ... Edited March 28, 2022 by IBatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 On 3/26/2022 at 11:20 PM, Me_ said: Fans WERE. responsible. Maybe to start, but it looked like there was a bunch of pro rioters that came just for it. The bandana wearing ones and those who started tipping cop cars. Whatever it was a blight for the city and the hockey world all saw it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putgolzin Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Motte is a major upgrade on Richardson. Also, we didn't need to trade for Dermott. We could have kept that 3rd round pick instead of trading Motte for a lower 4th round pick. We could have called up Juulsen to replace Hamonic who is probably just as good as Dermott, and in any event like you said it wouldn't have affected the team much regardless who is in there on the 3rd pairing (same as who is on the 4th line). Motte, Richardson, 3rd round pick and Juulsen. Or Richardson, 4th round pick and Dermott. Which is a better case of asset management and which moves help us more for the playoffs? I think the answer to both is the 1st scenario... I would have loved to keep Motte. On so many nights he has been key to getting his line going, which in turn has gotten the team going. But your comparison doesn't make sense. If you add Richardson to both sides, you at least have to add Juulsen to both sides. It's more like: Motte (overpaid or gone), Richardson, 3rd round pick and Juulsen or 4th round pick, Richardson, Dermott and Juulsen That said, personally, I probably would have overpaid Motte and kept him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, DJB said: Maybe to start, but it looked like there was a bunch of pro rioters that came just for it. The bandana wearing ones and those who started tipping cop cars. Whatever it was a blight for the city and the hockey world all saw it. Every riot, there are rioters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHTyrany Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, Putgolzin said: I would have loved to keep Motte. On so many nights he has been key to getting his line going, which in turn has gotten the team going. But your comparison doesn't make sense. If you add Richardson to both sides, you at least have to add Juulsen to both sides. It's more like: Motte (overpaid or gone), Richardson, 3rd round pick and Juulsen or 4th round pick, Richardson, Dermott and Juulsen That said, personally, I probably would have overpaid Motte and kept him. I think I would have kept him to the end of the year and let him walk vs. the 4th round pick. That said, we have no idea what goes on behind closed doors and all the factors that informed the decision to take a fourth. I usually give management some leeway as they are much better placed to know what is best, as compared to CDC arm chair GMs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHTyrany Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 33 minutes ago, IBatch said: Ok - now list the rest of them. They are called lottery tickets for a reason. We would need 8 fourth round picks, on average, to produce about one guy that plays 100NHL games. ... Yup, it's telling that Management thought Mott's contribution to a play-off push is worth less than a 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, J-23 said: It was really a nothing move. But no, we lost HOF’er Tyler Motte. Should’ve signed him to a 6x6. Seriously though, some people on here saying things like Motte is the reason we are going to miss the Playoffs is crazy. Love Motte, on and off the ice. Enjoy free agency man and get paid, just won’t be from us. I will reserve judgement on management until they start making some serious moves regarding guys like Miller, Boeser, Garland, etc. Not too excited about bringing in another rookie GM, but I’ll try to stay optimistic. Maybe JR is running the show Yeah I agree 100%, it's funny. I think some people are just completely hung up on things like whether Miller stays or goes, or if we're good enough to compete as is. So much so they over analyze and make wide sweeping generalizations that cloud their judgement. You'll see comments like these not surprisingly from those that are just hard wired into making the playoffs or those that were on the hate Green bandwagon and are convinced we're a top 5 team now. They have so much emotionally invested (one guy big bucks) that every move is seen as an assault on their position. At the end of the day management didn't think he is as much of a Canuck legend they did. They were pissed at his over-valuation and traded his ass, or they are simply more invested in building a contender instead of satisfying some impossible playoff run. I think some people should remember we're a middling hockey team with a 20% chance to make the playoffs. Not Colorado or Florida gearing up for a long run. I agree on the rookie GM but like you said the real determining factor will be the big moves in the summer. Not whether we grabbed a fourth or kept a .25 ppg fourth liner for a month in a desperate playoff bid. Priorities! Fingers crossed. Edited March 28, 2022 by Gawdzukes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 1 hour ago, IBatch said: Ok - now list the rest of them. They are called lottery tickets for a reason. We would need 8 fourth round picks, on average, to produce about one guy that plays 100NHL games. ... More the reason to get more picks - need volume to hit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 51 minutes ago, higgyfan said: Here's a list of 4th rounders currently playing in the NHL. Sure it's a long shot, but it still happens and sometimes, overwhelmingly so. https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl-draft/en/round/4-round-draft-picks-active-players-all-time-games-played-leaders.html You certainly want to be part of that group who has access to 91 cost controlled players. The picks themselves aren't overly valuable themselves therefore it's valuable to have as many as you can so you hit on one of these free players from time to time. I personally only get excited about rounds 1 and 2 but how many relevant NHL players are in rounds 4-7 in the NHL? I'll just guess at least 75 - 100 out of 736. That's a healthy chunk of players or 2-3 per team. In the past I haven't really cared about acquiring picks but I think we need to look at that. It's about time we actually stock the cupboards with more players that we've drafted. That means getting rid of a Motte here and there when it makes sense. As in they're going to UFA anyway. One thing we need to do imo is to gather multiple assets. We do too much penciling of players into future line-ups with no alternate plans whatsoever believing everyone is going to reach their potential. 51 minutes ago, Devron said: Balls to the wall man Sutter will be in management! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said: You certainly want to be part of that group who has access to 91 cost controlled players. The picks themselves aren't overly valuable themselves therefore it's valuable to have as many as you can so you hit on one of these free players from time to time. I personally only get excited about rounds 1 and 2 but how many relevant NHL players are in rounds 4-7 in the NHL? I'll just guess at least 75 - 100 out of 736. That's a healthy chunk of players or 2-3 per team. In the past I haven't really cared about acquiring picks but I think we need to look at that. It's about time we actually stock the cupboards with more players that we've drafted. That means getting rid of a Motte here and there when it makes sense. As in they're going to UFA anyway. One thing we need to do imo is to gather multiple assets. We do too much penciling of players into future line-ups with no alternate plans whatsoever believing everyone is going to reach their potential. Sometimes there are players that are late developers and for whatever reason, fly under the wire. At the very least, you can stock your prospect pool and if they can make it to Abby, that's a win right there. Turning Abby into a perennial playoff team filled with loyal players is huge for the Canucks. That is the best scenario for young players to develop. There is also the possibility to include the 4th as a sweetener for a trade or moving up in a draft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 21 minutes ago, higgyfan said: Sometimes there are players that are late developers and for whatever reason, fly under the wire. At the very least, you can stock your prospect pool and if they can make it to Abby, that's a win right there. Turning Abby into a perennial playoff team filled with loyal players is huge for the Canucks. That is the best scenario for young players to develop. There is also the possibility to include the 4th as a sweetener for a trade or moving up in a draft. I think we've already seen the benefit of having the baby Nucks nearby. Player movement is so much easier. It will be helpful in trying out and planning for more youth in the future. I especially like the idea of inter-changing fourth line and bench players from the farm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaninMex Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 2 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: I couldn’t care less. You’re talking about cupboards when our top prospect is a 4th round pick PPG rookie dman in the AHL. point is, you can find some promising players there. Benning is not here to pick another gem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, mll said: More the reason to get more picks - need volume to hit. No doubt. It's ok. We need to draft well every year to stay relevant. I can't wait until we've had another period of drafting like we did in the 2000's. That said - it's still a crap shoot and trades that we can win are just as valuable. Quin drafted so so even with Bure - but that was a unique situation that we won't see for decades again. Probably once in a 1000 years sort of thing given the following year Bure would have gone top 1-3. However he did a masterful job of trading some very decent hockey players to round out the core for the 90's..hit with Ohlund, Linden of course and Nedved i suppose ... but without his trading we'd never had that core. Burke was ok even with the Sedins but that set us up. Nonis finished it off. Really the only great drafter we've ever had was Milford. It's being an awfully long time since we've had an impact player past the second round hasn't it? Edler...Hansen moves the needle a little too. What year was that again? And Nonis also had some total dud drafting after his first year ... Edit: As to the original point. We'd need 8 4th rounders on average, each year, to get ONE NHLer who plays 100 games MIN. That's the facts anyways. JB obviously knew this. Agree though - you need some home runs along the way to be a good team, and that comes with adding picks. Will be interesting to see how OTT and Seattle do. Both totally loaded up with picks. OTT has a great track record with hitting on later picks compared to the norm. I truly wish we'd taken that route years ago. Couldn't back then. But if we need too now man could we ever load up. Edited March 28, 2022 by IBatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayinblack Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 5 hours ago, NHTyrany said: Yup, it's telling that Management thought Mott's contribution to a play-off push is worth less than a 4th. I think it's more than just that. New mgmt had the chance to set precedent with how they will approach these situations at the TDL differently than in the past. Motte this year but now the room knows how business will be carried in the following years. And thankfully no more folks on here screaming about losing assets for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now