Easy fix for the D

[Putgolzin]

I think we can fix our D more easily than most people have considered.

We have a star defenceman who has previously stated he would feel completely comfortable on the right side.

I've thrown out this thought a couple times recently and it hasn't generated even one response - I guess mostly because it's too outrageous to even consider.

But could it work?!

 

Here's my lineup:

 

OEL Hughes

Dermott Myers

Rathbone Schenn

 

Hughes plays alongside OEL - unfortunately OEL still has to play a solid defensive role, but we have a truly great first pairing

Dermott could be like a very-poor-man's OEL and keep things calm while Myers does what he's done but in less gruelling minutes

Rathbone could be like a very-poor-man's Hughes and that line could be similar to Hughes-Schenn again in less gruelling minutes

 

We all assume we have to find that stud/star huge minute munching RHD and we're going to have to cut in other places to do so.

The first problem is that player doesn't hardly seem to exist, second, if he does we have to cut so drastically to land him.

I say we already have that player, we just need him to switch sides.

 

 

 

[Zhukini]

What's the goal though, that's still a mediocre defence core that will rely heavily on Demko

[eeeeergh]

1 hour ago, Putgolzin said:

I think we can fix our D more easily than most people have considered.

We have a star defenceman who has previously stated he would feel completely comfortable on the right side.

I've thrown out this thought a couple times recently and it hasn't generated even one response - I guess mostly because it's too outrageous to even consider.

But could it work?!

 

Here's my lineup:

 

OEL Hughes

Dermott Myers

Rathbone Schenn

 

Hughes plays alongside OEL - unfortunately OEL still has to play a solid defensive role, but we have a truly great first pairing

Dermott could be like a very-poor-man's OEL and keep things calm while Myers does what he's done but in less gruelling minutes

Rathbone could be like a very-poor-man's Hughes and that line could be similar to Hughes-Schenn again in less gruelling minutes

 

We all assume we have to find that stud/star huge minute munching RHD and we're going to have to cut in other places to do so.

The first problem is that player doesn't hardly seem to exist, second, if he does we have to cut so drastically to land him.

I say we already have that player, we just need him to switch sides.

 

 

 

I imagine you're right that Hughes could play right side, but loading up OEL onto that pairing would leave vulnerabilities on our others. 

The root of our problem on the backend is still Myers imo. We need to switch him out for a shutdown defenseman that lets OEL play his style.

We still have Poolman locked up as well as our bottom pairing RHD. Realistically if Poolman had ANY value at all, it would be nice to move him and just let Schenn play that spot, but sadly Poolman has 0 trade value. 

Our problem is we have too many bottom pairing RHD, and are missing at least 1 proper top-4 RHD. Realistically our defense should look something like this if we want to be competitive:

Hughes-Marino
OEL-Manson
Dermott-Poolman
*Schenn, Hunt, Burroughs

Top pairing is all about puck possession, second pairing is balanced with OEL and a shutdown defenseman, and bottom pairing is pure shutdown, with 3 capable NHL defensemen waiting in the wings to step in case of injury.

[VegasCanuck]

People dump on Poolman a lot, but overall, when healthy, I didn't think he was bad. He should, however, be a bottom pairing D.

 

My guess is that Myers will be gone this summer, not because he's a bad D, just because of salary and being an RD, he's probably the easiest guy to move. Everything that they are talking about is bringing more balance to the team.

 

We have too much salary being eaten up on LD, ideally, we'd keep Myers another year and move OEL for assets to bring better balance to the blueline, but I'm not sure that he would waive his NMC again.

 

Looking at the lineup, this is my rough prediction on moves and who will be back and who goes:

 

Forwards

Pettersson stays of course

Boeser is traded, not because of his play, but because we have depth on the right and we can get the assets necessary to build better balance through the lineup.

Horvat is back of course, and I think he will sign an extension before camp, removing the distraction from next year.

Miller I believe will also be back and again, will extend before camp

Garland I can't see us moving him unless someone puts up an offer that's too good to turn down. He makes us better and is usually our best energy guy.

Pearson, he's far more valuable here than many fans give him credit for. Makes us much harder to play against.

Podlolzin, he will be back and will have a much better year overall. I think he learned a lot this year, including what it takes to manage an 82 game schedule.

Hoglander will be back, I can't see them giving up on him unless they need him in a trade package to get an upgrade somewhere else.

Dickinson, I think we will move him if the opportunity is there. I don't think he will be back. Need someone better on faceoffs at 3C position.

Richardson, I could totally see us signing him to another 1 year, 800k contract. He's still fast and kicks in a few points

Chiasson is another guy who takes a lot of flack here, but is better than people give him credit for. The problem for him is, he's better in the top 6 than bottom 6, I think he's gone

Lammikko, if he asks for more than about 900k, I think they will flip him, possibly in a package.

Highmore, probably back at 850k - 950k for 3 years. Really solid energy guy.

Sutter, I think gets an invitation to camp on a PTO, to see if he's able to complete his recovery. I think they will give him a chance but not commit to him until they see what he can do.

Lockwood, I think will be full time next season, but I think he needs to gain about 5 - 10 lbs to really stick. He was getting bounced around a little too easily, but speed to burn.

Don't be surprised if they try and flip Ferland's contract to a team that needs cap relief. I think we will run 2 - 3 million under the cap next season.

 

Defense

Hughes isn't going anywhere unless someone overwhelms us with a trade offer. The only team I could see trying that would be NJ to make a splash

OEL, if he's open to being moved, I believe that we will try. Not that he didn't perform, but I think the new management would rather have the space.

Myers, if OEL won't move, then I believe that Myers will start next season with another team. I think we will get more for him than anyone expects.

Poolman will be back and hopefully have a more healthy season. Takes a hard time from fans, but when healthy, he's pretty good defensively.

Dermott, based on what he's signed for, and that he's an RFA after next season, I think they will see what he can do here with starting out at our camp.

Schenn has earned his next season. Did everything asked of him. He's not that fast, but when we need to put him out there for physical presence, he's delivers.

Hunt, will probably sign an extension for same rate. He isn't a bad fill in when injuries strike, but I'd rather see him spend more time in Abbotsford next year.

Burroughs stays, great depth and physical, likely will be in Abbotsford a lot more next year

Keeper, looking forward to seeing him actually play and whether he can nail down a 7th D spot

Rathbone will be on this team next season

Woo will likely get a hard look in camp

Juulsen, if we sign him, and I think we will 

 

Goal

Demko isn't going anywhere, especially at the rate he is signed at

Martin looks like a solid backup, its his spot to lose.

 

So, to recap, I think 1 of our top 6 gets moved (likely Boeser) as well as either OEL or Myers (or both if other options are available)

[Maniwaki Canuck]

2 hours ago, Putgolzin said:

I think we can fix our D more easily than most people have considered.

We have a star defenceman who has previously stated he would feel completely comfortable on the right side.

I've thrown out this thought a couple times recently and it hasn't generated even one response - I guess mostly because it's too outrageous to even consider.

But could it work?!

 

Here's my lineup:

 

OEL Hughes

Dermott Myers

Rathbone Schenn

 

Hughes plays alongside OEL - unfortunately OEL still has to play a solid defensive role, but we have a truly great first pairing

Dermott could be like a very-poor-man's OEL and keep things calm while Myers does what he's done but in less gruelling minutes

Rathbone could be like a very-poor-man's Hughes and that line could be similar to Hughes-Schenn again in less gruelling minutes

 

We all assume we have to find that stud/star huge minute munching RHD and we're going to have to cut in other places to do so.

The first problem is that player doesn't hardly seem to exist, second, if he does we have to cut so drastically to land him.

I say we already have that player, we just need him to switch sides.

 

 

 

I like it.  An OEL/Hughes pairing is not going to rim the puck out of their own end on the forehand very often, so no problem that they're both left shots. 

Your two bottom pairings have the puck-moving/stay-at-home complementarity that usually makes sense.

And the pairings can switch around situationally, revert to this year's format when needed, etc. 

The fact is that moving off of our current D personnel is going to be difficult and we can't afford additions that would make it an even more expensive group.  So thinking about how to get more out of who we have is important.  The other factor there is what Rutherford just singled out:  team structure and breakout system. 

[Putgolzin]

14 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

Our problem is we have too many bottom pairing RHD, and are missing at least 1 proper top-4 RHD.

 

Exactly.

I agree with pretty much everything you posted, but you've clearly identified the problem.

I just don't think it's going to be easy to fix - I think the types of players you've identified inevitably creates massive gaps elsewhere in the lineup.

If Hughes could move to the right, we take some of our LHD wealth and fix the problem at the top of the right side.

At that point, even if we moved out Myers (and Poolman) for nothing we could more easily find a fix for the second pairing and the bottom pairing should be fine.

 

[Phat Fingers]

Myers is staying unless something big and massive is happening with a return of a top 4 RHD.  We need two not none. 
 

And we don’t need to get smaller.  We need to have more than Schenn and Myers be the size too. 
 

Poolman cannot play in structure.  Not this year.  
 

Hughes by his very nature is less structured, Myers is a guy that will always look awkward to the eye, because of his being giant.  
 

We need a guy to fit in between Myers and Schenn that can either provide a solid partner for OEL or Hughes.  
 

Myers get assigned the other. 
 

Schenn and Burroughs round out the RHD with Hughes OEL and Dermott and Rathbone rounding out the left side.  
 

we need another top 4 RHD that can play with OEL or Hughes effectively.  
 

That allows sheltering of RHD minutes, depth and solid 5 v 5 players to build cohesive play with.  
 

I want them to have an effective shot, cause they will get to use it more than ever before in their career if it is effective.

 

Its Manson or a player like him and he is affordable,  

[wildcam]

16 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

People dump on Poolman a lot, but overall, when healthy, I didn't think he was bad. He should, however, be a bottom pairing D.

 

My guess is that Myers will be gone this summer, not because he's a bad D, just because of salary and being an RD, he's probably the easiest guy to move. Everything that they are talking about is bringing more balance to the team.

 

We have too much salary being eaten up on LD, ideally, we'd keep Myers another year and move OEL for assets to bring better balance to the blueline, but I'm not sure that he would waive his NMC again.

 

Looking at the lineup, this is my rough prediction on moves and who will be back and who goes:

 

Forwards

Pettersson stays of course

Boeser is traded, not because of his play, but because we have depth on the right and we can get the assets necessary to build better balance through the lineup.

Horvat is back of course, and I think he will sign an extension before camp, removing the distraction from next year.

Miller I believe will also be back and again, will extend before camp

Garland I can't see us moving him unless someone puts up an offer that's too good to turn down. He makes us better and is usually our best energy guy.

Pearson, he's far more valuable here than many fans give him credit for. Makes us much harder to play against.

Podlolzin, he will be back and will have a much better year overall. I think he learned a lot this year, including what it takes to manage an 82 game schedule.

Hoglander will be back, I can't see them giving up on him unless they need him in a trade package to get an upgrade somewhere else.

Dickinson, I think we will move him if the opportunity is there. I don't think he will be back. Need someone better on faceoffs at 3C position.

Richardson, I could totally see us signing him to another 1 year, 800k contract. He's still fast and kicks in a few points

Chiasson is another guy who takes a lot of flack here, but is better than people give him credit for. The problem for him is, he's better in the top 6 than bottom 6, I think he's gone

Lammikko, if he asks for more than about 900k, I think they will flip him, possibly in a package.

Highmore, probably back at 850k - 950k for 3 years. Really solid energy guy.

Sutter, I think gets an invitation to camp on a PTO, to see if he's able to complete his recovery. I think they will give him a chance but not commit to him until they see what he can do.

Lockwood, I think will be full time next season, but I think he needs to gain about 5 - 10 lbs to really stick. He was getting bounced around a little too easily, but speed to burn.

Don't be surprised if they try and flip Ferland's contract to a team that needs cap relief. I think we will run 2 - 3 million under the cap next season.

 

Defense

Hughes isn't going anywhere unless someone overwhelms us with a trade offer. The only team I could see trying that would be NJ to make a splash

OEL, if he's open to being moved, I believe that we will try. Not that he didn't perform, but I think the new management would rather have the space.

Myers, if OEL won't move, then I believe that Myers will start next season with another team. I think we will get more for him than anyone expects.

Poolman will be back and hopefully have a more healthy season. Takes a hard time from fans, but when healthy, he's pretty good defensively.

Dermott, based on what he's signed for, and that he's an RFA after next season, I think they will see what he can do here with starting out at our camp.

Schenn has earned his next season. Did everything asked of him. He's not that fast, but when we need to put him out there for physical presence, he's delivers.

Hunt, will probably sign an extension for same rate. He isn't a bad fill in when injuries strike, but I'd rather see him spend more time in Abbotsford next year.

Burroughs stays, great depth and physical, likely will be in Abbotsford a lot more next year

Keeper, looking forward to seeing him actually play and whether he can nail down a 7th D spot

Rathbone will be on this team next season

Woo will likely get a hard look in camp

Juulsen, if we sign him, and I think we will 

 

Goal

Demko isn't going anywhere, especially at the rate he is signed at

Martin looks like a solid backup, its his spot to lose.

 

So, to recap, I think 1 of our top 6 gets moved (likely Boeser) as well as either OEL or Myers (or both if other options are available)

I like your post but I would try and add Dman toughness Manson 30, 6'3, 215, RD could fill # 4 spot for 2--3 yrs. 3 X 3.5million..

I Also like Juulson 6'2, RD fill  #7 and adds size

Keeper RD 6'2, 26, 195- Had a great camp until he broke leg--He adds grit, toughness will be excited to see how he plays? 1 year remaining..

 

I still think Miller will be moved.. There will be talks,  Miller camp will want at least 8.5 million X 6 years..-- return will be big and will set up future..Young RD man under 24, roster player 3rd line centre and draft pick 2nd 2022 and 3rd 2023.. LA, NYR, Colorado key teams...

Boeser - Might be traded, I can see 3 yr deal AVV hit around 6.3 million--- Can't move both Garland and Miller... Keep Garland 4.9 X 5 yrs remaining

Horvat-- Extension 7 yrs X 6.8 million

Myers-- Will be moved only if they have RD to fill his minutes 20--22 min guy..

[eeeeergh]

5 hours ago, Putgolzin said:

Exactly.

I agree with pretty much everything you posted, but you've clearly identified the problem.

I just don't think it's going to be easy to fix - I think the types of players you've identified inevitably creates massive gaps elsewhere in the lineup.

If Hughes could move to the right, we take some of our LHD wealth and fix the problem at the top of the right side.

At that point, even if we moved out Myers (and Poolman) for nothing we could more easily find a fix for the second pairing and the bottom pairing should be fine.

 

Yup you're right - finding TWO RHD (which is what im proposing) would be an insane task that would be very expensive.

To get Marino, we'd have to part with a top-6 forward. 
To get Manson, we'd have to pay him a lot in free agency.

Wil lbe interesting to see how they address this

[KKnight]

2 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

Yup you're right - finding TWO RHD (which is what im proposing) would be an insane task that would be very expensive.

To get Marino, we'd have to part with a top-6 forward. 
To get Manson, we'd have to pay him a lot in free agency.

Wil lbe interesting to see how they address this

Addressing the right side of D is extremely hard. I personally rather trade assets for it, than pay mass amounts of money, that they most likely won't live up to. Dougie Hamilton, PK Subban, Erik Karlsson etc 

 

If they are locked in to a team friendly deal, I think that has a lot of value. 

[VegasCanuck]

6 hours ago, wildcam said:

I like your post but I would try and add Dman toughness Manson 30, 6'3, 215, RD could fill # 4 spot for 2--3 yrs. 3 X 3.5million..

I Also like Juulson 6'2, RD fill  #7 and adds size

Keeper RD 6'2, 26, 195- Had a great camp until he broke leg--He adds grit, toughness will be excited to see how he plays? 1 year remaining..

 

I still think Miller will be moved.. There will be talks,  Miller camp will want at least 8.5 million X 6 years..-- return will be big and will set up future..Young RD man under 24, roster player 3rd line centre and draft pick 2nd 2022 and 3rd 2023.. LA, NYR, Colorado key teams...

Boeser - Might be traded, I can see 3 yr deal AVV hit around 6.3 million--- Can't move both Garland and Miller... Keep Garland 4.9 X 5 yrs remaining

Horvat-- Extension 7 yrs X 6.8 million

Myers-- Will be moved only if they have RD to fill his minutes 20--22 min guy..

Your numbers match up pretty close to what's in my head. I think there is a strong chance that we move Miller if his expectations are much higher than what the Canucks are willing to pay. I think they will really try and establish his expectations before the draft so they can explore a draft day deal for him, like we pulled off in acquiring him.

 

All things being equal, I'd rather keep Boeser, but I think the Canucks see depth on our RW, and will explore using him as a chip to fix other positions on the team.

 

I really expect to see a massive overhaul of defense this summer. I think they are happy with Rathbone's ability to check opposition in his own end of the ice now, and that was what I saw as his deficiency and why he needed time in Abbotsford. If he can get the puck away from opposition, he will be effective in moving it up the ice. Earlier in the season, he seemed to really struggle with that aspect of his game.

 

 

[Putgolzin]

17 hours ago, KKnight said:

Addressing the right side of D is extremely hard. I personally rather trade assets for it, than pay mass amounts of money, that they most likely won't live up to. Dougie Hamilton, PK Subban, Erik Karlsson etc 

 

If they are locked in to a team friendly deal, I think that has a lot of value. 

Which brings me back to the idea of moving Hughes across to address the right side.

I think it's likely he could find success there in the same way he found success on the PK.

And if that could happen, all the other fixes become way easier - either moving Myers and bringing someone more steady in, or even finding a big guy like Zadorov for the left side, or whatever.

Fixing the mid and/or bottom of the D core becomes way easier if you could fix the top end, and we just happen to have a top end piece that could potentially do so.

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Putgolzin

[DownUndaCanuck]

I think we have some good defencemen for sure, we just lack a young top right defenceman to play with Hughes the next 5+ years, but Bruce has done well to scramble this defence together. He's deciding to play one puck mover on the top unit (Hughes), a shutdown pair in OEL and Myers, and then have a puck mover in Hunt on the bottom pairing. Hughes and Schenn complement each other very well whereas Hunt is always caught up ice and (sure sometimes he makes some nice offensive plays) more often than not leaves the 3rd pairing defenceman out to dry.

 

We could simply just switch Hunt out for Rathbone, which is the easy option. Keep the lineup the same, Dermott and Rathbone play on our bottom pairing and we improve already. I worry OEL, Myers and Schenn will all be a year older and slower though.

 

Realistically we're not getting any help via the UFA because there aren't many great options there. A trade would be the best way to upgrade our D but that's a big job and rarely gets done.

 

Poolman is a bit of a funny one - he was good at times, pretty decent in Winnipeg, but just stayed injured most of the year and wasn't great to start the year (but then nobody was with Green), and hasn't had a decent chance under Bruce. As much as I've said we should try and dump his cap somewhere else, it might be interesting to see if he can play, when healthy, with Hughes. Dermott's another guy who might be able to take some of those minutes off Schenn over time.

 

As much as I'd love to see a top RD acquired, I doubt it'll happen, and it sounds like JR wants our defence to be more mobile. I wonder if he'll chat to Bruce and try and split up OEL and Myers to get OEL moving and passing a bit better. Honestly, something like this would work well:

Hughes - Schenn

OEL - Dermott

Rathbone - Myers

 

Each pairing has a mobile guy (Hughes, OEL, Rathbone) and each has a shutdown guy. If Poolman is healthy and looks good in training camp then by all means, give him one of those RH spots.

[BigTramFan]

31 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I think we have some good defencemen for sure, we just lack a young top right defenceman to play with Hughes the next 5+ years, but Bruce has done well to scramble this defence together. He's deciding to play one puck mover on the top unit (Hughes), a shutdown pair in OEL and Myers, and then have a puck mover in Hunt on the bottom pairing. Hughes and Schenn complement each other very well whereas Hunt is always caught up ice and (sure sometimes he makes some nice offensive plays) more often than not leaves the 3rd pairing defenceman out to dry.

 

We could simply just switch Hunt out for Rathbone, which is the easy option. Keep the lineup the same, Dermott and Rathbone play on our bottom pairing and we improve already. I worry OEL, Myers and Schenn will all be a year older and slower though.

 

Realistically we're not getting any help via the UFA because there aren't many great options there. A trade would be the best way to upgrade our D but that's a big job and rarely gets done.

 

Poolman is a bit of a funny one - he was good at times, pretty decent in Winnipeg, but just stayed injured most of the year and wasn't great to start the year (but then nobody was with Green), and hasn't had a decent chance under Bruce. As much as I've said we should try and dump his cap somewhere else, it might be interesting to see if he can play, when healthy, with Hughes. Dermott's another guy who might be able to take some of those minutes off Schenn over time.

 

As much as I'd love to see a top RD acquired, I doubt it'll happen, and it sounds like JR wants our defence to be more mobile. I wonder if he'll chat to Bruce and try and split up OEL and Myers to get OEL moving and passing a bit better. Honestly, something like this would work well:

Hughes - Schenn

OEL - Dermott

Rathbone - Myers

 

Each pairing has a mobile guy (Hughes, OEL, Rathbone) and each has a shutdown guy. If Poolman is healthy and looks good in training camp then by all means, give him one of those RH spots.

Good post. Very sensible.

 

Interestingly, Hughes-Dermott as an even strength pairing was our best pairing in terms of shots for/against. Although it was a reasonably small sample size they actually played 28 mins of EV together and had 24 shots for vs only 8 shots against. This resulted in 3 goals. It isn't unrealistic for Dermott to start picking up minutes off Schenn.

 

Also interesting that Dermott and OEL played virtually no time together, so its hard to know whether they'd be a good fit.