Why is everybody giving up on Hoglander?

[kanucks25]

2 minutes ago, BCNate said:

Just to be clear, what is your expectation of this team next year?

About the same as this past season, bubble team.

 

Which is why I think it's not the time to prioritize win-now veterans. Players like Hoglander and Lockwood ought to be important (and cheap) role players 2 years down the line if they develop as we hope, and you have to give them that playing time to figure it out.

[Rick_theRyper]

"why is everyone giving up on Hoglander?" 

 

 

"Because today's youths attention span can be measured in nano seconds"

[Rick_theRyper]

On 7/26/2022 at 9:15 AM, BCNate said:

Aside from Miller and Garland, Pearson is the best defensive forward on this team.  He is also your best forward on the PK aside from Miller and Horvat.  I'd also hazard a guess that he leads the team in empty net points.  Why?  because he is always on the ice at the end of games to protect leads.  He has been .5PPG+ ever since he got here and makes 3.25.

 

No, teams don't have these guys on the cheap, they pay a huge cost to get them, look at Nick Paul, Barclay Goodrow, Blake Coleman.  Who are you replacing Pearson with? Will Lockwood? Hoglander?  Who in our organization replaces him on the cheap?  This notion on these boards that everyone who isn't putting up PPG can be replaced on the cheap is beyond ridiculous, that is not how the league runs in real life.

 

Yes, this team needs to shed cap, 100% agree, but that comes via players with negative value like Poolman, Dickinson, or waiting until the near 6 mill in Holtby, Virtanen, and Ferland run out.

 

Again, I never said that we dump Hoglander, or that we give up on him, but he is a very tradable asset that likely does not have a top 9 role on this team.  If we can move him for a comparable age/situation D, that is a huge win.

 

 

 

 

You replace Pearsons game with Miyechev young and an upgrade.. faster the list goes on

[kloubek]

Yeah, although Miyechev doesn't replace Pearson's heavy board play. In any event, there are only so many spots to go around and only so much cap to spend. We need to clear out cap if we want to help the D, and with our newfound depth on forward it only makes sense to me that SOMEONE has to go. Pearson at least should have some value, whereas I think we'd get very little for Hogs at this point. I would rather keep Garland since I think there is still even more upside there and don't believe his size is a major detriment, and hte remaining players are likely negative value which are hard to move.

[Hairy Kneel]

I predict he's going to have a breakout year and almost get 20 goals. And still be a pest.

I'm sure he watched tapes of all those glorious chances he had to shoot.

[Gawdzukes]

There are only so many roster spots. If he's in the line-up someone else needs to be traded. Dickinson is untradeable so Pearson or Garland but we may not be able to give them away.

 

I'd put Hoglander in the AHL for the start of the year at least and make a decision him at the TDL.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[Goal:thecup]

6 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I predict he's going to have a breakout year and almost get 20 goals. And still be a pest.

I'm sure he watched tapes of all those glorious chances he had to shoot.

Yeah, and a real bulldog on the third line in the playoffs.

GO HOGEY GO!!

[Goal:thecup]

22 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

There are only so many roster spots. If he's in the line-up someone else needs to be traded. Dickinson is untradeable so Pearson or Garland but we may not be able to give them away.

 

I'd put Hoglander in the AHL for the start of the year at least and make a decision him at the TDL.

Maybe you could wait until camp, at least.

[Gawdzukes]

Just now, Goal:thecup said:

Maybe you could wait until camp, at least.

Whatever you want there boss. You tell me what is best sir.

[Hairy Kneel]

Joshua will take Dickinson's spot.

[Nuxfanabroad]

The Hoag-man comes out blazin' with a lacrosse goal on the season's first shift! Brace yerselves...

[Alienhuggyflow]

On 7/26/2022 at 9:38 AM, kanucks25 said:

About the same as this past season, bubble team.

 

Which is why I think it's not the time to prioritize win-now veterans. Players like Hoglander and Lockwood ought to be important (and cheap) role players 2 years down the line if they develop as we hope, and you have to give them that playing time to figure it out.

I might be nuts but I see us continuing at or better than the 107 point pace under the 60 games of  Bruce.  Aside from JT and maybe Horvat I think we see better production from the rest of the forward group. I really think Petey explodes this season which pretty much guarantees his wingers will reap the rewards.

Brock, Garland, Podz, Hogz, have another gear if they can be a bit more consistent and a guy like Mikheyev who probably will see better minutes than in Toronto could very well have a a Jesper Bratt type transformation.  But what really has me excited is finally getting a guy (Kuzmenko) who has elite playmaking skills, put him with Pearson and Horvat against 3rd lines and it wouldn't surprise me to see Horvat and Pearson have career years in goals.

Demko should be even better coming off his first full season as a starter which will help the D, admittedly our weakest area.

 

As for Hogz, he's young and full of potential but he's going to have to earn top 9 minutes and as of now Pearson is the better all around winger and that in no way equates to a diss of the teams overall level.

 

He's the kind of player every contender has and it's baffling how many people here don't see that.

I think Hogz will be on a really good 4th line that will most nights be better than the oppositions 4th line which should allow him to contribute. He's gonna have two really good defensive guys with him who can also play a decent offensive game and a coach who pushes offense.

It won't surprise me at all if we end up with the most productive 4th line in the league and when there's inevitably an injury he can move up and make it hard for Bruce to send him back down.

 

 

[Alienhuggyflow]

On 7/15/2022 at 4:22 PM, Dixon Ward said:

I would move Kuzmenko to the bottom of that list and below Hoglander.  The rest have all proven they can perform in by far the best league in the world.  Kuz has yet to prove that.  Hoglander did it as a 20 year old.  Kuz is 25 and hasn't played 1 game.  Remember Linden Vey, Nigel Dawes, Goldobin, etc.. they all scored a lot in the KHL too.

 

I really like Hogz and think he is much more valuable than cdc gives him credit for.   

Kuzmenko will have to prove himself and nothing will be handed too him. That being said the fact he's a playmaker makes him a far better fit imo. It's why Bruce put Petey on the wing which I hated but understood.

If Kuzmenko can fill that void that will be huge.

As for your comparisons, Kuzmenko was a late bloomer kind of like JT who saw his numbers shoot up once he was put in a good spot.

Those guys you mentioned are nowhere near as skilled as him and true he hasn't done it in NA yet but he's a lot closer skill wise to the success stories from the KHL than the ones that bombed. 

Ask anyone who's watched a ton of KHL hockey and they will say exactly that. 

 

I'm a big fan of Hoglander but he struggled a ton defensively last season and until that changes he's not a top 9 player unless he can put up a lot of points. 

Nothing wrong with him being on a line with Dickinson and Lazar two sound defensive players feasting on weaker 4th lines.

No need to play him where he's not ready, it's better to let him develop in sheltered minutes,  we finally have the depth to do that.

To me that's not a punishment or means he's being given up on.

[kanucks25]

5 hours ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

I might be nuts but I see us continuing at or better than the 107 point pace under the 60 games of  Bruce.  Aside from JT and maybe Horvat I think we see better production from the rest of the forward group. I really think Petey explodes this season which pretty much guarantees his wingers will reap the rewards.

Brock, Garland, Podz, Hogz, have another gear if they can be a bit more consistent and a guy like Mikheyev who probably will see better minutes than in Toronto could very well have a a Jesper Bratt type transformation.  But what really has me excited is finally getting a guy (Kuzmenko) who has elite playmaking skills, put him with Pearson and Horvat against 3rd lines and it wouldn't surprise me to see Horvat and Pearson have career years in goals.

Demko should be even better coming off his first full season as a starter which will help the D, admittedly our weakest area.

 

As for Hogz, he's young and full of potential but he's going to have to earn top 9 minutes and as of now Pearson is the better all around winger and that in no way equates to a diss of the teams overall level.

 

He's the kind of player every contender has and it's baffling how many people here don't see that.

I think Hogz will be on a really good 4th line that will most nights be better than the oppositions 4th line which should allow him to contribute. He's gonna have two really good defensive guys with him who can also play a decent offensive game and a coach who pushes offense.

It won't surprise me at all if we end up with the most productive 4th line in the league and when there's inevitably an injury he can move up and make it hard for Bruce to send him back down.

I agree the forward group looks strong, and it may even perform better than last year for all the reasons you mention (Petey & Brock bounce-back, additions of Kuzmenko and Mikheyev) but at the same time, our defence probably overperformed. The uptick we get from the forwards may be nullified by the defence coming back down to earth. If that doesn't happen, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

The thing is, in the off-season there is almost nothing but hope. 90% of the league is saying "well if this goes right and that goes right and this player does this we'll be good" but in reality, a lot of things don't go right and less than a third of the league ends up being legit.

 

Only time will tell, it'll be an interesting season. If the roster stays how it is now I can see us finishing anywhere between 5th and 10th in the West.

[UFCanuck]

On 7/30/2022 at 11:15 AM, Hairy Kneel said:

I predict he's going to have a breakout year and almost get 20 goals. And still be a pest.

I'm sure he watched tapes of all those glorious chances he had to SCORE A LACROSSE GOAL.

 

[Hairy Kneel]

24 minutes ago, UFCanuck said:

 

I swear he got extra attention defensively because guys were wary of that possibility. To much d 

[Angry Goose]

I often people saying “Bruce doesnt like NH” 

 

I mean, he’s a young guy that’s still growing his game, Bruce obviously sees details he wants him to improve at-is that dislike?  Seems like a coach just doing his job.

 

Bruce also said he could be a 40 goal scorer one day so there’s that too. 

[Baggins]

On 7/26/2022 at 9:38 AM, kanucks25 said:

About the same as this past season, bubble team.

 

Which is why I think it's not the time to prioritize win-now veterans. Players like Hoglander and Lockwood ought to be important (and cheap) role players 2 years down the line if they develop as we hope, and you have to give them that playing time to figure it out.

Had the team performed the whole season the way they did under Bouda we would have been 2nd in the pacific rather than wild card. With improvements to the team, and Calagary getting worse, I expect to be competing for a certain spot and wild card as the minimum.

 

There's always the farm team for higher ice time and development.