IBatch Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 2 minutes ago, JM_ said: depends on how you view the next 4 years I suppose. Signing Miller and Bo long term does help us if Petey's demands in two years are astronomical. Top 6 C's are also not going to get cheaper over time as the cap goes up. There's no way around us paying big for someone in a year if Miller moves on. If Miller moves on, that cap probably ends up getting divy'd up pretty quickly...spread around that is, and we run with EP and Horvat down the middle. I don't see us going after his replacement, rather possibly using it to address our D, or maybe leveraging the cap space from a desperate team that's bumped up against the cap and can't afford a player (Devon Toews/Sakic deal would sure be nice!)...next off season cap is going to be king. It's part of the reason i won't get upset if Miller isn't traded at all...if we get some playoff experience and his cap back because he's just too steep. Feel slim odds he's traded if we start the season with him. And fair odds we re-sign him. There isn't a scenario that's actually bad regarding Miller as long as the teams careful with how it's managed (8-8.5 x 6, or a grade A prospect, a meh roster player on an expiring deal and a pick - or playoffs and he walks, use that cap elsewhere to fill a need)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 Just now, JM_ said: probably a good idea... but do the older players go for this? owners would have to force this on them, likely meaning a work stoppage. But maybe thats coming anyway. JR didn't sound very hopeful that there was a path to a deal, but we'll see. He's not going to negotiate against himself in the media. Felt it was a pretty ordinary comment "we have a number in mind, their camp does too, and right now it's far apart etc" and that he's not going to tip his hand or discuss it much because he seems pretty professional. They are going to have to deal a lot of Miller questions... so far pretty ordinary routine stuff. The time to deal with contract length would be during the next CBA...couple seasons away yet but not too far out. The players each get one vote, it would help the vast majority to go do this, a select few get most of the pie as it is right now. They hate escrow, and buyouts still count for the cap. Part of their system is goofy, like signing bonus and regular pay as well, players in their 30's getting most of their money upfront so they can retire or set up for an easy buyout for example... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 8 minutes ago, IBatch said: If Miller moves on, that cap probably ends up getting divy'd up pretty quickly...spread around that is, and we run with EP and Horvat down the middle. I don't see us going after his replacement, rather possibly using it to address our D, or maybe leveraging the cap space from a desperate team that's bumped up against the cap and can't afford a player (Devon Toews/Sakic deal would sure be nice!)...next off season cap is going to be king. It's part of the reason i won't get upset if Miller isn't traded at all...if we get some playoff experience and his cap back because he's just too steep. Feel slim odds he's traded if we start the season with him. And fair odds we re-sign him. There isn't a scenario that's actually bad regarding Miller as long as the teams careful with how it's managed (8-8.5 x 6, or a grade A prospect, a meh roster player on an expiring deal and a pick - or playoffs and he walks, use that cap elsewhere to fill a need)... unfortunately a lot of folks do not see the value in that. But there will be freaking out from one corner or another of the fan base no matter which way this goes. I still see the road to a more compete team by moving Myers, Dickie and Pearson. If we can free up that cap space to retool with better players on d and cap space to retain our other Fs I see that as a better path than losing Miller. I do think we need to suck it up and pay to move Dickie if need be, the cap space is worth the 3rd round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 36 minutes ago, IBatch said: It's a two way street as well. Miller is pretty decent 5 x 5, sure he gets his PP points but it's not like he's feasting on it either like some first line players (50/50)... Watching him go up against an entire OTT line live, come in and score was a pretty boss move. QHs is an exceptional puck mover and walks the line as well or better then anyone in the league right now, but you still need the guys he's passing the puck to finish. Miller and EP are the ones down low making those passes, QHs gets third assists often because he's able to keep the puck in, but isn't making most of his passes through legs cross ice etc, just moving the piece's on the chess board around to open a lane if he can (which for sure is worthy of that second assist!).. Funny how Miller was scoring at a 130ish rate near the end of the season once EP started going... not a coincidence. It's a symbiotic relationship for sure, but take Miller away from Hughes and Pettersson and I question whether he'd be on the same level. Whereas I'm confident Hughes and Pettersson would do just fine without Miller going forward, they should continue to improve. Hughes is the offensive engine for this team, same way Makar is for the Avs. Miller is talented, no question, but I don't hold him in as high esteem as others. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 So where does this put Miller and Bo worth? Miller $9-9.5M x 8yrs? Bo $7.5-8M x 8yrs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 5 minutes ago, BPA said: So where does this put Miller and Bo worth? Miller $9-9.5M x 8yrs? Bo $7.5-8M x 8yrs? I think the comp that should worry you is Petey, not these two. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 6 minutes ago, JM_ said: I think the comp that should worry you is Petey, not these two. Well EP40 hasn’t hit those high numbers yet. So thinking… $8.5-9M x 8yrs (for now) for EP40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 2 minutes ago, BPA said: Well EP40 hasn’t hit those high numbers yet. So thinking… $8.5-9M x 8yrs (for now) for EP40 why the ""? be happy we have players this good to worry about. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 19 minutes ago, Coconuts said: It's a symbiotic relationship for sure, but take Miller away from Hughes and Pettersson and I question whether he'd be on the same level. Whereas I'm confident Hughes and Pettersson would do just fine without Miller going forward, they should continue to improve. Hughes is the offensive engine for this team, same way Makar is for the Avs. Miller is talented, no question, but I don't hold him in as high esteem as others. dunno if its quite this easy to discount Millers impact on Petey. They are better together, but even strength Petey's numbers drop a bit more without Miller. Seems to me like they get more out of each other. https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20212022&thruseason=20212022&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=VAN&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2021-10-12&td=2022-05-01&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=0&p2=8480012&p3=8476468&p4=0&p5=0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 8 minutes ago, JM_ said: dunno if its quite this easy to discount Millers impact on Petey. They are better together, but even strength Petey's numbers drop a bit more without Miller. Seems to me like they get more out of each other. https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20212022&thruseason=20212022&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=VAN&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2021-10-12&td=2022-05-01&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=0&p2=8480012&p3=8476468&p4=0&p5=0 There's been impact, sure, but Miller wasn't here for Pettersson's rookie year and he somehow got by alright. Pettersson and Hughes will lead this team going forward, continuing to improve, whereas I think Miller's peaked and likely prices himself out of Vancouver. Or, you know, just opts to go home to the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 17 minutes ago, JM_ said: why the ""? be happy we have players this good to worry about. Especially since his next contract will eat up his entire prime. Could see Pettersson being worth it over eight years, takes him to 32. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 4 minutes ago, Coconuts said: There's been impact, sure, but Miller wasn't here for Pettersson's rookie year and he somehow got by alright. Pettersson and Hughes will lead this team going forward, continuing to improve, whereas I think Miller's peaked and likely prices himself out of Vancouver. Or, you know, just opts to go home to the US. OR, Petey, Miller and Bo all centre lines for us yeah we'll see, I think its more likely than not that this is Millers last year with us, just a matter of if its a full season or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 Just now, JM_ said: OR, Petey, Miller and Bo all centre lines for us yeah we'll see, I think its more likely than not that this is Millers last year with us, just a matter of if its a full season or not. Ain't my thing, I'm traditional in that I want a matchup 3C to eat some of the tougher defensive minutes, Horvat is miscast in that role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 39 minutes ago, BPA said: So where does this put Miller and Bo worth? Miller $9-9.5M x 8yrs? Bo $7.5-8M x 8yrs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70seven Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 3 hours ago, BPA said: Well EP40 hasn’t hit those high numbers yet. So thinking… $8.5-9M x 8yrs (for now) for EP40 I honestly think this will be the year EP40 becomes apart of the elite group of NHLers. I expect 35+ goals and 80+ points. He will be a heavy heavy contract extension, and we would be wise to have that done in advance of RFA. If we need to walk on 2-3 of Miller, Horvat, Boeser, Garland by next offseason, get some futures/cap flexibility and build around Petey, Quinn, and Thatcher. The year after Myers and Pearson are done and we can play in UFA. Target date for this re-tool to be complete is 24/25 season. This is why there is little urgency in rushing deals imo. Benning screwed Vans cap structure with the Myers and OEL pickups and the reality is there is no rush with the core being still a ways a way from being mature enough to truly compete. …UNLESS Demko. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 4 hours ago, Coconuts said: Ain't my thing, I'm traditional in that I want a matchup 3C to eat some of the tougher defensive minutes, Horvat is miscast in that role I like the idea of 3 scoring lines that are all defensively responsible and can push the play. Its been really hard to find that ideal 3C since Sutter went down with injuries and covid. Its actually a hard sport to fill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoastcanucks777 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Muttley said: Common theme here? Lucic - 34Backlund - 33Markstrom - 32Toffoli - 32Tanev - 32Kadri - 31Coleman - 30Huberdeau - 29Weeger - 28 Correct. In correct. Are you saying mr sutter is a dna match to all on list? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 18 hours ago, Westcoastcanucks777 said: Are you saying mr sutter is a dna match to all on list? Yes, little known fact but Sutzy is quite the ladies man. Quite the smooth talker. He is actually the father to all these guys. I think Disney is making a movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoastcanucks777 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 3 hours ago, Gawdzukes said: Yes, little known fact but Sutzy is quite the ladies man. Quite the smooth talker. He is actually the father to all these guys. I think Disney is making a movie. What your saying must be true look at their ages 32 years ago big suts was on fireeee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 On 8/22/2022 at 1:21 AM, Muttley said: Common theme here? Lucic - 34Backlund - 33Markstrom - 32Toffoli - 32Tanev - 32Kadri - 31Coleman - 30Huberdeau - 29Weeger - 28 Correct. In correct. This is what I'm looking at, they suddenly have substantial money tied up with players who are entering the final 1/3rd of their careers. Last season, I looked at the Flames as a team who's window was just opening. Now, they look like a team who's window should close in another 1 to 2 seasons as their core starts to deteriorate. Kadri is a really good player right now, but he plays a style of game where there's usually an earlier fall off, around 33 or 34, it becomes noticeable and he will be 32 before the puck drops to start the new season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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