[PGT] Buffalo Sabres at Vancouver Canucks | Oct. 22, 2022

[Goal:thecup]

4 hours ago, mll said:

It's sign or sit out.  He'll be 1 year to UFA - it's the Tkachuk situation.  If he's not interested in signing long term they'll probably just work out a trade.

 

His QO is 8.82M - he's more likely to just sign it than to go to arbitration.  It's Vancouver that might take him to arbitration - prevents him from signing his QO or an offer sheet. 

Thanks as usual.

Petey is the least of our problems, imo.

Obviously much bigger problem(s) as shown by Miller and Schenn.

[stawns]

21 minutes ago, JM_ said:

a big personality taking up media air time could also protect Petey, to some degree. It really depends on the person.

 

I do think that mgmt showed their cards - they locked up Miller before Bo. Thats not insignificant. They will happily keep Bo, but it has to be at the right price. I give Bo a lot of credit for continuing to be Mr. Consistency through all of this, it shows a heck of a lot of character.

 

As I sadi, this is going to be a rough decision one way or another, but its rough right now with no clear path since we don't know what other teams have offered for our players.

I don't think Petey needs sheltering, I think he is a leader in his own right and he definitely leads by example.  I think him, Bo and OEL would make a strong, steady leadership group

[stawns]

14 minutes ago, fecklund said:

And maybe Rutherford decided to agree, just to teach Frankie a lesson. 

Can we stop blaming ownership?  He doesn't run the team

[Gurn]

9 hours ago, Wilbur said:

It's not a secret tank.  We've seen this act before.  When the pressure is off this team will go on a run.  When they get close and the pressure comes back on, they will fade.

Yes- just like last year, teams will start playing their back up goalies, and the Canuck record will inflate.

9 hours ago, EmilyM said:

Yeah, that’s a great point. It takes two to make a deal. But if the rest of the league soured on giving up assets for him, it makes me question why we threw such a massive contract his way.

Nobody would trade anything for him- so we'll sign a guy nobody wants?.  Great move.

9 hours ago, R3aL said:

Just saying if we cant trade Horvat or Miller for valuable assets back.. How good are they really?

Agreed

9 hours ago, chon derry said:

At the time they resigned him no one knew he was going to be this bad this fast. So there was some positive expectations at the time. That never happened , that said I’m certainly not sticking up for JRs choice but the guy has exposed himself , and better that now than later when he isn’t moveable ,being the analytical schmuts that I am with some playing back ground , schenns calling him out had to be deeper than the just the  give away at the end of the 2nd   Couple that with the rumours of late I think it’s becoming blatantly obvious   the guys alienated himself with the possiblity of verbally defending himself to the point that no one wants to listen to it , Judging by his lousy attitude ( frown for 3 seasons) the whole time he’s been here ,it all adds up  nobody likes him. Time to go. 

Schenn has been one of our best players- both times he was/is here.

solid, dependable, and able to eat a few more minutes per game than a 6th d man usually could.

[fecklund]

3 hours ago, erkayloomeh said:

I'm not interested in pointing fingers at any particular player who appears to be underperforming.

This team has no cohesiveness......play a disorganized game.

Anyone who thinks that if we add another top 4 d that it will solve our problems will be sorely disappointed. 

So if I'm correct then the next logical question is why is it like this?

Poor coaching? Something wrong in the dressing room?  

We all like to jump to conclusions.....schenn and Miller thing.....aha   that's the problem right?

One thing I'm convinced this team needs is a true leader. Bo, hank, naslund were types of leaders.....passive ones.  

Then there's leaders like Kesler, MacKinnon types. 

We are a team that on paper, talent wise, should be really good. 

But we are a mentally weak, incohesive, hang your head hockey team. A bunch of nice guys.

Who will pull thus team together. ? 

 

This team is playing like they hate being on the ice together.

Schenn and Miller barking at each other at the end of the game, while remaining players on the Sabres bench watch in disbelief, is evidence of that. 
Imagine how much we missed because we're relying on TV cameras. It was very likely a lot worse at ice level. We just caught the obvious bickering at the end of the game. 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

seems like its being thrust upon them. 

 

This is really odd. The team is better on paper, but is totally adrift. Even the hard core anti-Miller folks from last year expected us to be a bubble team. 

 

Nobody saw Demko playing like he has kryptonite in his pads (or the team playing THIS bad in front of him). That D was always a risk of being the mess it currently is.

 

I dislike your usage of "anti-Miller" though. Seeing the pretty obvious writing on the wall and wanting to get asset value and cap space for a player that doesn't fit our timeline, doesn't make us "anti-Miller". I was one of the few people here defending the trade that brought him here!

 

IMO, not capitalizing on his likely peak season to continue building out this team's contention window (+/-2-7 years), was a mistake. As some of us tried to illustrate, this team was in no position to push to contend NOW. There's good pieces in place but there are just far too many organizational holes, ill fitting pieces, cap inefficiencies, and young, inexperienced core, to push all those chips in NOW.

 

It will be interesting to see how they untangle this mess. IMO, they made it harder to do with some of their actions this summer.

[fecklund]

...

Edited October 23, 2022 by fecklund

[Zhukini]

The cheerleaders don't care how bad the team is as long as they have a team. Until star players start asking out. 

I hope Petey and Hughes get to play on a good team at some point in their careers. Screw the Sedin down with the ship motto. I want players that want a cup, wherever that may be.

[combover]

We’ll we changed the coaches we got rid of the re- fool that put this group together and we still have issues no suprise  it’s past time to change some of the personnel. And not bottom 3

[chon derry]

6 minutes ago, gurn said:

Yes- just like last year, teams will start playing their back up goalies, and the Canuck record will inflate.

Nobody would trade anything for him- so we'll sign a guy nobody wants?.  Great move.

Agreed

Schenn has been one of our best players- both times he was/is here.

solid, dependable, and able to eat a few more minutes per game than a 6th d man usually could.

I’m likin Schenn more this time around that the last. I only wish he was a little younger. Hes an excellent example of why teams need that kind of character. Natural leader. 

Edited October 23, 2022 by chon derry

[Plaguez]

Weird, I said before the season started that our defense was garbage and it was pointed out to me that we had 2 #1 defensemen in Hughes and OEL, and the rest were all top 4s.  The defense is garbage, we really should have traded Miller to boost the back end.  Demko is looking ordinary and that is because he is being ventilated by high end chances almost every shift.

 

Miller isn't worth anything right now so can't trade him, the only players who would garner a decent return (before the Canucks became desperate, now everyone will be dealing with us from a position of power) would be Horvat, Pettersson and Hughes, none of which I would recommend trading unless the management decides to go scorched earth and rebuild with hopefully Bedard as the centerpiece. 

 

This is a horrible place to be, when you look in the rearview and realize the best moves you could have made should have been made and now you see that there is nothing to grab onto while you are falling off a cliff.  

[fecklund]

2 hours ago, Bell said:

I don't think the NHL bargaining agreement allows for that.  The NHL player's seemed to get screwed with the escrow payment nonsense however they seem a lot more fortunate than NFL player's in once they sign an NHL contract it's guaranteed where NFL teams are able to release player's from their contracts.  I'm not sure how it all works in the NFL but it seems like if a player is sucking they can basically fire him like any other employee.  The NHL needs something more along those lines.  It is brutal having these guy's sign 8 year deals and give up in year three.

 

Jt Miller looks like a player on one of those vintage table hockey games in his own zone spinning around in his own slot not being able to move.  

Rules.....    
Like when we signed Luongo to a totally legal and legitimate contract, then had to pay a recapture penalty for years after he was retired? 

[BC_Hawk]

32 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

What a disappointing game for a home opener for a team that went winless they should have had some pep in their step and they just didn't in the 3rd period yet again...are they tired or out of shape or just so disjointed that nobody seems to care?

 

People calling JT LE 2.0 is laughable to me, it is 6 games into the year if it were NOT for JT last year we don't finish they way we did imo. JT had a career year and it would have been the best choice to try and cash in on that by trading him for a solid return if it were available...but in Canuck fashion we held on to him which is fine, but we didn't address the area of need on D all post season. I don't care how new management is there is no excuse to NOT do Everything you can to improve your weakest link that being the D. Instead they wanted rely on Demko being a stud for a full season, which is just not fair to him because it is IMpossible for ANY G to do with our D core!

 

Why is Boudreau NOT putting some of the blame on himself or his coaching staff?!? They are at fault as NObody is safe from criticism with how the team has played this year. 

 

One last thing...Where the Fcuk is our god damn CAPTAIN...invisible as always. He is suppose to be a leader, I see ZERO leadership from him. Pettersson should get the C and gut this team down to the studs if this play continues for another 5-10 games. I know it won't happen but getting Trotz while he is still available might be the best thing for this team NOW and in the FUTURE. He knows how to coach in the Most important end of the rink Your Own End!

 

Sadly this team has made way TOO many bad decisions personnel wise for years and it's left us in a pickle. Some great young talent with some bad contracts to older players and NO leadership. Bo is going through the motions, maybe he is vocal in the dressing room but I sure don't see him being a leader on the bench, whenever the camera pans onto him he just looks defeated. Everyone sitting down not talking going through the motions collecting a fabulous pay cheque while hard working people pay out the ARSE for tickets/food/drinks to come watch them play like this...OUCH!!! 

100% agree…..just not about Bo. He is steady Eddy; never to high nor low….perfect captain. He needs so more vets like Schenn to set up in the leadership dept. Problem is we don’t have any; all are quiet dudes or young. If we trade a fwd or two to make space, be nice to get a vet in the 12/13 to be that guy. Too bad Sutters got the long Vid.

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Nobody saw Demko playing like he has kryptonite in his pads (or the team playing THIS bad in front of him). That D was always a risk of being the mess it currently is.

 

I dislike your usage of "anti-Miller" though. Seeing the pretty obvious writing on the wall and wanting to get asset value and cap space for a player that doesn't fit our timeline, doesn't make us "anti-Miller". I was one of the few people here defending the trade that brought him here!

oh it got pretty anti-Miller this summer 

 

you say obvious but one of the most experienced people in the game disagreed with you on Miller. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

IMO, not capitalizing on his likely peak season to continue building out this team's contention window (+/-2-7 years), was a mistake. As some of us tried to illustrate, this team was in no position to push to contend NOW. There's good pieces in place but there are just far too many organizational holes, ill fitting pieces, cap inefficiencies, and young, inexperienced core, to push all those chips in NOW.

 

It will be interesting to see how they untangle this mess. IMO, they made it harder to do with some of their actions this summer.

 

we're missing a defensive specialist in the top 9. We don't have a shut down C. Maybe if we can trade for that somehow, this season can be salvaged. 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Plaguez said:

Weird, I said before the season started that our defense was garbage and it was pointed out to me that we had 2 #1 defensemen in Hughes and OEL, and the rest were all top 4s.  The defense is garbage, we really should have traded Miller to boost the back end.  Demko is looking ordinary and that is because he is being ventilated by high end chances almost every shift.

 

Miller isn't worth anything right now so can't trade him, the only players who would garner a decent return (before the Canucks became desperate, now everyone will be dealing with us from a position of power) would be Horvat, Pettersson and Hughes, none of which I would recommend trading unless the management decides to go scorched earth and rebuild with hopefully Bedard as the centerpiece. 

 

This is a horrible place to be, when you look in the rearview and realize the best moves you could have made should have been made and now you see that there is nothing to grab onto while you are falling off a cliff.  

they're not going to get the return on Miller that they would have in earlier windows, but they'll still get something decent for him and they'll get much needed cap space going forward.  

 

I'm disappointed in the start, but especially disappointed that management couldn't see what was right in front of them and now have a much harder job of untangling the mess they, themselves, created.  That said, there's still a solid team in there, somewhere, and with some shrewd moves, they can still be a team moving up the ranks over the next couple of seasons.  

[Goal:thecup]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

Yeah, I know when a team is playing good, bad or somewhere in the middle.  Watching live doesn't give you some kind of magical perspective on the game.  They outplayed the Sabres for long stretches in the first and second and just couldn't beat Anderson

And you can't back up the PVR when you're at the game cuz you miss the next bit.

Being at the game is for the rich or connected; like that poster that dropped $2,500 and still walked out.

I can't waste cash like that.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

oh it got pretty anti-Miller this summer 

 

you say obvious but one of the most experienced people in the game disagreed with you on Miller. 

 

 

 

we're missing a defensive specialist in the top 9. We don't have a shut down C. Maybe if we can trade for that somehow, this season can be salvaged. 

it got pretty "don't re-sign Miller", but I didn't see a lot of people sayng he wasn't an excellent player........just that he isn't right for this team or this team's timeline.

[BC_Hawk]

35 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

True dat! At the time, I thought Hamonic was a decent replacement, and more sturdy…unfortunately not, and he was a wing nut to boot!

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Goal:thecup said:

And you can't back up the PVR when you're at the game cuz you miss the next bit.

Being at the game is for the rich or connected; like that poster that dropped $2,500 and still walked out.

I can't waste cash like that.

you do miss a ton of stuff watching live and I've been plaing and watching hockey for 50 years, I don't need to be there to know if my team is playing well or poorly.

[KyGuy123]

Kuzmenko will bolt after this year no doubt, not a very fun environment to be in to be honest. As a long time fan, I hope this sites a full rebuild and we build from the backend out this time. Keep Hughes, Pettersson and Demko and build. You might have to trade a Podkolzin for that Stud Dman unfortunately, or he could also be a piece moving forward. 
 

Management knew we needed to blow the team up and they resign Miller instead of gaining assets and cap. In 3 years I see a whole other set of hires and potential a team sale due to fans not coming or supporting this absolute tire fire of decisions.