Sedins' legacy post-2015

[dougieL]

In their final 3 seasons, the Sedins averaged around 55 pts while making 7m each.

 

Linden refused to rebuild while they were still playing (and massively underperforming their contracts), saying it would be unfair to them.

 

We signed Loui Eriksson to try to keep the window of contention open.

 

To get out of that LE deal (along with a couple of other expiring contracts), we gave up the 9th overall pick and a second rounder to get OELs 7.26m x 6y deal along with Garland. It is important to remember that the Sedins, being so high on OEL, convinced Benning to include the second rounder to close the deal (this is according to Benning himself).

[cripplereh]

1 minute ago, dougieL said:

In their final 3 seasons, the Sedins averaged around 55 pts while making 7m each.

 

Linden refused to rebuild while they were still playing (and massively underperforming their contracts), saying it would be unfair to them.

 

We signed Loui Eriksson to try to keep the window of contention open.

 

To get out of that LE deal (along with a couple of other expiring contracts), we gave up the 9th overall pick and a second rounder to get OELs 7.26m x 6y deal along with Garland. It is important to remember that the Sedins, being so high on OEL, convinced Benning to include the second rounder to close the deal (this is according to Benning himself).

This was posted before and it happened so why look back.

 

Every team makes mistakes you must learn from them.

[dougieL]

4 minutes ago, cripplereh said:

This was posted before and it happened so why look back.

 

Every team makes mistakes you must learn from them.

We definitely didn't learn from the LE contract.

[AnthonyG]

9 minutes ago, dougieL said:

In their final 3 seasons, the Sedins averaged around 55 pts while making 7m each.

 

Linden refused to rebuild while they were still playing (and massively underperforming their contracts), saying it would be unfair to them.

 

We signed Loui Eriksson to try to keep the window of contention open.

 

To get out of that LE deal (along with a couple of other expiring contracts), we gave up the 9th overall pick and a second rounder to get OELs 7.26m x 6y deal along with Garland. It is important to remember that the Sedins, being so high on OEL, convinced Benning to include the second rounder to close the deal (this is according to Benning himself).

The point of this post was what?

[cripplereh]

2 minutes ago, dougieL said:

We definitely didn't learn from the LE contract.

Cause of put owner who wants to win.

 

We will be stuck unless they change their minds.

 

[dougieL]

2 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

The point of this post was what?

I think a lot of people neglect that aspect of their legacy. Don't get me wrong - I was huge fans of theirs (along with everyone else) during their glory years, and I was heartbroken in 2011 (along with everyone else) that I didn't get to see them lift the Cup, but I can't help but think that is all people choose to remember. 

[Ghostsof1915]

 

[-AJ-]

Not sure what you're smokin' but it's pretty well-known that Linden wanted to rebuild and ownership didn't want to.

[AnthonyG]

3 minutes ago, dougieL said:

I think a lot of people neglect that aspect of their legacy. Don't get me wrong - I was huge fans of theirs (along with everyone else) during their glory years, and I was heartbroken in 2011 (along with everyone else) that I didn't get to see them lift the Cup, but I can't help but think that is all people choose to remember. 

Yea but why stir up negativity? What is the purpose of this? This literally makes no sense to bring up, they are being remembered has HOF  players… not the tail end of their career and LE’s signing and their input on OEL.

 

Here’s something to consider. LE signed to play with the twins, had 2 major injuries in his first 2 seasons and to top that off, the guys he signed to play with, he only spent 31% of his ice time with them his first season and 26% the following year. So the Coach wasn’t putting him on a line with the twins, he was misused and to back that up even further his oZS (Offensive zone start) was far greater than the twins… the guys he was supposed to be playing with.

 

LE oZS at all strengths 

2016-17 52%
2017-18 43.8%
2018-19 41.2%
2019-20 34.2%
 

oZS at even strength

2016-17 50%
2017-18 46.9%
2018-19 38%
2019-20 37.1%
 

Now compare that to that of Henrik Sedin

 

Henrik oZS at all strengths

2016-17 66.8% 

2017-18 79.6%
 
at even strength

2016-17 60%
2017-18 74%

 

In the 2 years that LE was playing with the twins, he spent hardly any time with them, was injured in 2 seasons missing 49/164 games. He missed 29.8% of the games played with the twins and played a fraction of the time with them. Then the twins retired early and then the Canucks had no choice but to accept being a bottom team.

 

He was misused.

 

OEL played great last year and tied his career best defensive season. Garland was outstanding 5v5 last season, unfortunately the whole team is off to a horrendous start this year. Petey and Horvat are the only two who have really shown up to play. Everyone on this roster is capable of turning their season around, the team most likely will not make playoffs, but thats not to say personal seasons cant be corrected and value can be found

 

 

Its time to move on.

[AnthonyG]

41 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Not sure what you're smokin' but it's pretty well-known that Linden wanted to rebuild and ownership didn't want to.

I think Aqua wanted to rebuild, but wasnt willing to tear it down. I believe he or maybe it was Benning’s vision, to use free agency to try and slap a cup together for the twins, without trading 1sts and to keep drafting in the first round to build up a talent pool as the twins were heading to retirement. It was a stealth rebuild. Not a full blown rebuild. We kept our 1sts for 5 years and when an opportunity arose to snag JT Miller for a 1st and 2nd his age fit with the timeline to compete as the up and comers were beginning to make an impact. I dont think they thought the 2019-20 season would have been so exciting and competitive before that season started. Its probably what led to holding onto playoff hopes the years after.

[dougieL]

49 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Not sure what you're smokin' but it's pretty well-known that Linden wanted to rebuild and ownership didn't want to.

Linden wanted to rebuild AFTER they retired. But while they were still playing, he said a rebuild would be unfair to them:

 

“We have Daniel and Henrik Sedin here, who are very important to this organization and icons in the city,” Linden told Sportsnet’s Luke Fox in a one-on-one. “They’re not going anywhere. I don’t know how I walk into the room and tell these guys, ‘Strip it down.’ I’m not sure it’s fair to these guys. There’s different circumstances, be it in Toronto or Carolina or Vancouver, that require different routes.”

[dougieL]

3 minutes ago, dougieL said:

Linden wanted to rebuild AFTER they retired. But while they were still playing, he said a rebuild would be unfair to them:

 

“We have Daniel and Henrik Sedin here, who are very important to this organization and icons in the city,” Linden told Sportsnet’s Luke Fox in a one-on-one. “They’re not going anywhere. I don’t know how I walk into the room and tell these guys, ‘Strip it down.’ I’m not sure it’s fair to these guys. There’s different circumstances, be it in Toronto or Carolina or Vancouver, that require different routes.”

This was back in December 2016. Almost 6 years after the fact, I can say with confidence who it wasn't fair to: the fans.

 

[MaxVerstappen33]

2 hours ago, dougieL said:

In their final 3 seasons, the Sedins averaged around 55 pts while making 7m each.

 

Linden refused to rebuild while they were still playing (and massively underperforming their contracts), saying it would be unfair to them.

 

We signed Loui Eriksson to try to keep the window of contention open.

 

To get out of that LE deal (along with a couple of other expiring contracts), we gave up the 9th overall pick and a second rounder to get OELs 7.26m x 6y deal along with Garland. It is important to remember that the Sedins, being so high on OEL, convinced Benning to include the second rounder to close the deal (this is according to Benning himself).

So you are basically trying to pin this big complicated Arizona deal on the Sedins. 

 

It might be news to a lot of ppl but the Canucks were not the only team interested in OEL. That is what ultimately drove the price in the deal.

 

Nor do I think all who bash the deal spend very much time on Capfriendly looking up defensman. 

 

Anyway stay classy with your anti Sedin post on HHOF day. Why not bash Loungo and his contract and what it led to while you are at it ?

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by MaxVerstappen33

[Timråfan]

2 hours ago, dougieL said:

In their final 3 seasons, the Sedins averaged around 55 pts while making 7m each.

 

Linden refused to rebuild while they were still playing (and massively underperforming their contracts), saying it would be unfair to them.

 

We signed Loui Eriksson to try to keep the window of contention open.

 

To get out of that LE deal (along with a couple of other expiring contracts), we gave up the 9th overall pick and a second rounder to get OELs 7.26m x 6y deal along with Garland. It is important to remember that the Sedins, being so high on OEL, convinced Benning to include the second rounder to close the deal (this is according to Benning himself).

Yeah, Benning was a weasel and so insecure as a boss so he had to go other people and let them decide what players he would sign and then put the blame on them.

Good riddance.

He even let Inge Hammarström decide for him to sign Dahlen, ouch. 

[AnthonyG]

2 hours ago, Timråfan said:

Yeah, Benning was a weasel and so insecure as a boss so he had to go other people and let them decide what players he would sign and then put the blame on them.

Good riddance.

He even let Inge Hammarström decide for him to sign Dahlen, ouch. 

Well considering he traded Burrows for Dahlen, it would have been a waste of an asset to walk out with absolutely nothing. Which he then quickly flipped for Karlsson. So I would say that kinda worked out. Macauley Culkin is over in your backyard mr Timrafan and Karlsson is having a good start to the season in Abby. You should know this.

 

Also where do you see Benning allowing everyone to make these choices for him and then turning around and blaming them? Besides a GM going to other people for opinions and reassurance is being resourceful and not making the selfish. But hey, Rutherford and Allvin decided it was best to sign Miller to an 8 year extension instead of maximizing his return. JB served then up Miller on a golden platter to acquire more high end talent/youth and they chose to re-sign Miller and are risking their next move with Horvat. They either maximize their return on Horvat and we become exponentially weaker down the middle and it will take ages to draft/develop another Horvat, or they re-sign Horvat and we become stagnant. They f***ed up big time and this will be a pretty big set back either way.

[Timråfan]

Just now, AnthonyG said:

Well considering he traded Burrows for Dahlen, it would have been a waste of an asset to walk out with absolutely nothing. Which he then quickly flipped for Karlsson. So I would say that kinda worked out. Macauley Culkin is over in your backyard mr Timrafan and Karlsson is having a good start to the season in Abby. You should know this.

 

Also where do you see Benning allowing everyone to make these choices for him and then turning around and blaming them? Besides a GM going to other people for opinions and reassurance is being resourceful and not making the selfish. But hey, Rutherford and Allvin decided it was best to sign Miller to an 8 year extension instead of maximizing his return. JB served then up Miller on a golden platter to acquire more high end talent/youth and they chose to re-sign Miller and are risking their next move with Horvat. They either maximize their return on Horvat and we become exponentially weaker down the middle and it will take ages to draft/develop another Horvat, or they re-sign Horvat and we become stagnant. They f***ed up big time and this will be a pretty big set back either way.

It was a tongue in cheek respond to dougieL making a whole thread just to blame the Sedins for the OEL trade. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

I'm glad the Sedins retired as Canucks but the proper way to rebuild is to sell your ageing veterans for high picks and tank hard after they're gone. This is a big reason not many good players of the same franchise stay with them until the end nowadays - they often want to win the Cup so get traded to a contender at the end of their careers. 

 

Just watch Chicago rinse and repeat - Kane and Toews will surely get flipped to contenders, probably half their cap retained, and they'll acquire even more picks in a stacked draft.

 

The only teams who have successfully retooled are teams like Boston who, since 2011, have somehow stayed competitive almost every year, but a big reason being that when they did drop in the standings they made it count and drafted really well (although there were some 1st round misses too). Marchand was really only just starting in 2011 and is now still in his prime, but the main core around him has changed so much since then.

 

Realistically to re-tool that's what we should have done, try to rotate 1st rounders and young guys into the ageing Sedins. Instead we kept aiming for older veterans and to be fair our scouting was nowhere near as good as Boston's.

[dougieL]

1 hour ago, Timråfan said:

It was a tongue in cheek respond to dougieL making a whole thread just to blame the Sedins for the OEL trade. 

Obviously the Sedins didn't make the final decision, but they sold OEL hard in the media after the trade, and according to Benning, sold him hard before the trade. That was evidently horrible advice - that's all I'm saying. And most people knew right when the trade was made that it was a horrible trade. And yet the Sedins managed not to see (or refused to see) what most average fans saw. I don't think it's wrong to point that out.

 

And I don't know how anyone thinks OEL was "great" last year. He was fine, and certainly better than the previous couple of years in ARZ. That doesn't mean he was great. This year he's been pretty bad (along with many other players). I still don't understand what he was thinking on the Matthews PPG.

[dougieL]

32 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I'm glad the Sedins retired as Canucks but the proper way to rebuild is to sell your ageing veterans for high picks and tank hard after they're gone. This is a big reason not many good players of the same franchise stay with them until the end nowadays - they often want to win the Cup so get traded to a contender at the end of their careers. 

 

Just watch Chicago rinse and repeat - Kane and Toews will surely get flipped to contenders, probably half their cap retained, and they'll acquire even more picks in a stacked draft.

 

The only teams who have successfully retooled are teams like Boston who, since 2011, have somehow stayed competitive almost every year, but a big reason being that when they did drop in the standings they made it count and drafted really well (although there were some 1st round misses too). Marchand was really only just starting in 2011 and is now still in his prime, but the main core around him has changed so much since then.

 

Realistically to re-tool that's what we should have done, try to rotate 1st rounders and young guys into the ageing Sedins. Instead we kept aiming for older veterans and to be fair our scouting was nowhere near as good as Boston's.

And even if you want to let them retire as Canucks, you don't go all in and refuse to rebuild simply in service to them. It's not as if they were producing 100+ pts per season. They were averaging about 55 pts per season while making 7m each!! They were frankly much closer to being anchor contracts rather than players you build around for a playoff run.

 

How Linden refused to see this, and refused a rebuild during that period, was so unfair to the fans. Then only AFTER they retired did he advocate a rebuild. Was his mission for his first 4 year simply to serve the Sedins'interests at the expense of the franchise?

 

[ShawnAntoski]

6 hours ago, dougieL said:

In their final 3 seasons, the Sedins averaged around 55 pts while making 7m each.

 

Linden refused to rebuild while they were still playing (and massively underperforming their contracts), saying it would be unfair to them.

 

We signed Loui Eriksson to try to keep the window of contention open.

 

To get out of that LE deal (along with a couple of other expiring contracts), we gave up the 9th overall pick and a second rounder to get OELs 7.26m x 6y deal along with Garland. It is important to remember that the Sedins, being so high on OEL, convinced Benning to include the second rounder to close the deal (this is according to Benning himself).

Congrats to the Twins but they did help create the current country club culture and based on what I heard on the radio during the OEL trade: they vouched for OEL, which is also a part of their legacy.  Anyways, for their efforts - they got paid really and despite their accomplishments, they still failed to deliver a cup. 

 

Personally, that Marchand incident says a lot and how it relates to the current culture in the locker room.

Edited November 15, 2022 by ShawnAntoski