[Proposal] Horvat or Miller off to Long Island

[Canucks Curse]

4 hours ago, Odd. said:

Miller for Bailey, 2023 1st, Wahlstrom, and Bolduc.

I would do that for sure

[wildcam]

6 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

I just hope Allvin doesn't get schooled by Lamoriello. 

 

Horvat is a primo centreman, and taking back a late 1st (pick 20+) and some scraps would be unacceptable. The Canucks need a Top 4RD. Certainly not Josh Bailey.

 

Dobson or Mayfield have to be included in the return, otherwise why make the deal with the Islanders? 

I know you have to be kidding about Vancouver getting Dobson 23 - 6'3 - RD 52 points last season..

Never getting Dobson unless-- Canucks are sending a package back?

Horvat or Miller -  (  Hoglander - Rathbone..

NYI won't be in the Mix.

 

I think Columbus or LA Kings 

Peeke - 6'3 - 24 -RD - plays 20--24 mins -- Roslovic 25-  C -6'2 --- 22 G -- 44 PTS 2020-21--    3rd rounder 2023

 

Miller or Horvat --- Rathbone 23

[higgyfan]

Wahlstrom +Bolduc + Raty + Bailey (cap dump $5mx 2) returns one of these prospects; Miller the others.

 

People get hung up on some prospects not being a team need.  Bolduc LD is looking like he'll be

a monster that has offensive upside and Whalstrom RW  is developing into a hard hitting power forward. 

If the Nucks can't use them, they become huge assets that can get a high return on trades for whatever

they need.  Or maybe the gm moves other players to fit these young guys into the lineup.

 

Raty C, well we all know that the Nucks can always use a C who's a fast skater, has high-end puck moving skills

and is considered a play driver.

 

Let's not get stuck on what this team is to look like in a few weeks or months.  More important is what the roster

looks like in the upcoming seasons.  It takes time and cleverness to build a cup contending team.

[J.I.A.H.N]

4 hours ago, JM_ said:

If its Miller I can see convincing Aqua its not a rebuild but a hockey trade. If its Bo, then its a rebuild. 

I don't know about that.

 

I think  a trade that nets us a 1st, a prospect, and a player, and Bailey, can be see as a short term set back, and to ready us for next years UFA market

 

That is really not a set back if a decent RHD could be had then

[J.I.A.H.N]

Yes, I think 

 

Miller

 

for 

 

Bailey (Cap dump)

Bolduc

2022 -1st

Wahlstrom

 

Would be a deal I would go for...................

[Noble 6]

8 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Ahh shit, how did I miss Bolduc? He's a big dude at 6'4" and was drafted 57OA 2019.

 

I'd do it, part of it would be the cost of dumping Bailey. 

 

You ain't getting Dobson. Would you trade a Dobson? I'd rather have a Dobson than a Hughes. Big, offensively dynamic, defensively responsible, 22, RD, top pairing. You don't trade those guys.

 

Maybe you pry Mayfield out if you send them say.. Schenn. Picks and prospects aren't scraps. NYI has some good prospects, we could use good prospects. And people keep telling me there should be D available later in the 1st round but I couldn't tell you for sure. Even if it's a mid to late 1st we'd still get a good prospect out of it.

 

That'd be interesting, but unless Brock continues his goal scoring I question how much interest there'd be. You never know, he has been producing. 

 

You are underrating Quinn Hughes. He's more valuable than Pettersson. 

[Coconuts]

13 minutes ago, Noble 6 said:

 

You are underrating Quinn Hughes. He's more valuable than Pettersson. 

I don't think I am. Young top pairing RD like Dobson are diamonds, LD in general are much easier to find and slot into your roster. This isn't to dump on Hughes, Dobson's position is just much more difficult to fill, let alone with a younger RD. Dobson really is impressive. 

 

As for being more valuable than Pettersson, there's definitely an argument there. Him and Pettersson are our most valuable players, I think who's more valuable likely comes down to opinion and how one would approach building a team. Not sure which I'd say is worth more but I would generally lean more towards D. 

[Coconuts]

2 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Wahlstrom +Bolduc + Raty + Bailey (cap dump $5mx 2) returns one of these prospects; Miller the others.

 

People get hung up on some prospects not being a team need.  Bolduc LD is looking like he'll be

a monster that has offensive upside and Whalstrom RW  is developing into a hard hitting power forward. 

If the Nucks can't use them, they become huge assets that can get a high return on trades for whatever

they need.  Or maybe the gm moves other players to fit these young guys into the lineup.

 

Raty C, well we all know that the Nucks can always use a C who's a fast skater, has high-end puck moving skills

and is considered a play driver.

 

Let's not get stuck on what this team is to look like in a few weeks or months.  More important is what the roster

looks like in the upcoming seasons.  It takes time and cleverness to build a cup contending team.

Agreed on all counts, this is why some of us look more towards the future with a rebuild/teardown instead of focusing on a core built around vets in Horvat and Miller. 

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Yes, I think 

 

Miller

 

for 

 

Bailey (Cap dump)

Bolduc

2022 -1st

Wahlstrom

 

Would be a deal I would go for...................

It's a deal I'd definitely do, though I'm not entirely where I stand on Wahlstrom. I do like the idea of Raty, though Wahlstrom has higher pedigree. 

[Noble 6]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

I don't think I am. Young top pairing RD like Dobson are diamonds, LD in general are much easier to find and slot into your roster. This isn't to dump on Hughes, Dobson's position is just much more difficult to fill, let alone with a younger RD. Dobson really is impressive. 

 

As for being more valuable than Pettersson, there's definitely an argument there. Him and Pettersson are our most valuable players, I think who's more valuable likely comes down to opinion and how one would approach building a team. Not sure which I'd say is worth more but I would generally lean more towards D. 

 

Hughes is the much more talented player. He's been playing injured and sick throughout this year and still has a 12 game assists streak. How many other NHL and Canucks records does he have? He and Makar were pretty much equally as good in their rookie years. Hughes has been our unquestioned #1D from the moment he's arrived. He's in a higher tier than Dobson and that overrides any positional advantages. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

It's a deal I'd definitely do, though I'm not entirely where I stand on Wahlstrom. I do like the idea of Raty, though Wahlstrom has higher pedigree. 

He has 9 points in 17 games, which is about 43 pts a season for a 22 year old that is not bad. I think he gets to 50/60 before its said and done. Good size. Plays PP

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, Coconuts said:

I don't think I am. Young top pairing RD like Dobson are diamonds, LD in general are much easier to find and slot into your roster. This isn't to dump on Hughes, Dobson's position is just much more difficult to fill, let alone with a younger RD. Dobson really is impressive. 

 

As for being more valuable than Pettersson, there's definitely an argument there. Him and Pettersson are our most valuable players, I think who's more valuable likely comes down to opinion and how one would approach building a team. Not sure which I'd say is worth more but I would generally lean more towards D. 

First line centers are just as valuable as first pairing RHDs.   EP is as valuable as Dobson.     NYI don't need EP really ... We won't get Dobson without starting with EP or QHs for sure. 

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

He has 9 points in 17 games, which is about 43 pts a season for a 22 year old that is not bad. I think he gets to 50/60 before its said and done. Good size. Plays PP

Curiously when Whalstrom was drafted, his best case comp by THN, was Brock Boeser lol.      

[Fanuck]

20 hours ago, Odd. said:

The thing with Mayfield is that he’s 30 and our management has said they’re not going to go after 30 year olds.

They also said they wouldn't be trading higher picks just to clear cap then subsequently acquired Stillman.

 

They also said the team needled more structure and disciplined systems put into place yet BB hasn't changed his style whatsoever. 

 

They also said 'very hard decisions' were going to have to be made with this roster last summer and then came into this season with essentially the EXACT same roster that wasn't good enough last year. 

 

While I agree this organization won't benefit long-term from acquiring 30yo defenseman, I've agreed with what this management group has said before only to see them do the opposite of what they publicly say to everyone's dismay. 

[wildcam]

20 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

I just hope Allvin doesn't get schooled by Lamoriello. 

 

Horvat is a primo centreman, and taking back a late 1st (pick 20+) and some scraps would be unacceptable. The Canucks need a Top 4RD. Certainly not Josh Bailey.

 

Dobson or Mayfield have to be included in the return, otherwise why make the deal with the Islanders? 

Dobson will be in no deal! Dobson 23 -- 6'4 - RD - 53 points -2021-22  ---untouchable

 

Romano 22--6'1 LD/RD  3X 2.5 mil ----  Whalstrom 22- ELC 900,000

Miller  29  5.2 million. -- Rathbone  900,000-  Canucks retain 1.5 of Miller contract this season only

[wildcam]

13 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Yes, I think 

 

Miller

 

for 

 

Bailey (Cap dump)

Bolduc

2022 -1st

Wahlstrom

 

Would be a deal I would go for...................

I think that is getting close, NYI giving up 3 young players with 1st rounder...

Wahlstrom-- 22--6'2 LW/C == Bolduc  22- 6'4 -LD --  2nd rounder 2023 -- Bailey 33  LW  2 X 5 million

 

Miller 29 -----Rathbone 23

[Fanuck]

1 minute ago, wildcam said:

Dobson will be in no deal! Dobson 23 -- 6'4 - RD - 53 points -2021-22  ---untouchable

 

Romano 22--6'1 LD/RD  3X 2.5 mil ----  Whalstrom 22- ELC 900,000

Miller  29  5.2 million. -- Rathbone  900,000-  Canucks retain 1.5 of Miller contract this season only

I've read Whalstrom is potentially available because both LL & Trotz didn't like his attitude/work ethic and questionable play without the puck.   Is that something he'll still learn being young, or do these two experienced hockey guys know exactly what they're talking about, meaning we should be very cautious about considering this player????

[Alflives]

19 minutes ago, wildcam said:

I think that is getting close, NYI giving up 3 young players with 1st rounder...

Wahlstrom-- 22--6'2 LW/C == Bolduc  22- 6'4 -LD --  2nd rounder 2023 -- Bailey 33  LW  2 X 5 million

 

Miller 29 -----Rathbone 23

Love to make a proper rebuilding trade like suggested here.  But we have an owner who isn’t interested in taking a step back.  Look for Pageau and Mayfield coming our way. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

28 minutes ago, wildcam said:

I think that is getting close, NYI giving up 3 young players with 1st rounder...

Wahlstrom-- 22--6'2 LW/C == Bolduc  22- 6'4 -LD --  2nd rounder 2023 -- Bailey 33  LW  2 X 5 million

 

Miller 29 -----Rathbone 23

Personally, I would take a 2022-1st (top 5 protected) before Bolduc...but that is me

[Coconuts]

10 hours ago, Noble 6 said:

 

Hughes is the much more talented player. He's been playing injured and sick throughout this year and still has a 12 game assists streak. How many other NHL and Canucks records does he have? He and Makar were pretty much equally as good in their rookie years. Hughes has been our unquestioned #1D from the moment he's arrived. He's in a higher tier than Dobson and that overrides any positional advantages. 

We shall see, they have different toolboxes. Hughes hit the ground running in a way Dobson didn't though, sure. And again, young RD vs young LD. When Lundqvist gets a 1st, as an RD who MIGHT become a top 4RD that tells you how difficult it is to build that side of your defense. Dobson is off to a good start, could very well build on last season too.

 

10 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

He has 9 points in 17 games, which is about 43 pts a season for a 22 year old that is not bad. I think he gets to 50/60 before its said and done. Good size. Plays PP

Sure, but I recall questions of work ethic and I'd prefer center and D prospects over another wing.

 

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

First line centers are just as valuable as first pairing RHDs.   EP is as valuable as Dobson.     NYI don't need EP really ... We won't get Dobson without starting with EP or QHs for sure. 

Agreed, NYI is set down the middle