[PGT] Arizona Coyotes at Vancouver Canucks | Dec. 03, 2022

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

The team waited 50 years to get a Hughes.  Don't know how or when we will get another one in the foreseeable future.  I mean...in order to get a Subban you had to trade away a Weber and vice versa.  I don't see a lot of Craig Simpson for Paul Coffey trades on the horizon.  And getting Phil Housley took Dale Hawerchuk.

 

Erik Karlsson, Chara, Niedermayer, Pronger all did become available at one point or another with plenty left in the tank.  But I wonder what we are going to get for Hughes that we wouldn't trade for another Hughes.

Again, what Hughes brings to the table is great, but I'd rather have a #1-2 dman who is better defensively.  Ultimately, he's the best chip toplay because he'll bring back a massive haul.  

 

He's not irreplaceable on defense, that's for sure.

[Locke Lamora]

Just now, chon derry said:

Oh ya right up there with Neely/linden 

I don’t think its quite the same situation, Neely was much younger and a diamond in the rough. We KNOW Bo is good (close to “great” in some aspects). Linden….I’m not sure his career arc was as ascendant as Bo’s is right now when he was shipped outta here. But he was much beloved in the heart of the fans….more so than Horvat is I’d say, due to the Cup run which had a “legendary” aspect to it.

 

But yeah, in terms of just being “dumb” this would be right up there with those in my opinion.

 

 

[Kevin Biestra]

Just now, stawns said:

Again, what Hughes brings to the table is great, but I'd rather have a #1-2 dman who is better defensively.  Ultimately, he's the best chip toplay because he'll bring back a massive haul.  

 

He's not irreplaceable on defense, that's for sure.

 

I would venture that he is possibly the most irreplaceable talent the Canucks have had in 50 years other than Bure.  I am not entirely sure...but these defensemen are a very rare breed.  Now it remains a possibility that he will be Mike Green...but the upside goes up through Phil Housley and perhaps higher.

[BC_Hawk]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

moving a winger for a winger isn't what they need.  They need a dman or C coming back in a Boeser trade

Agree, but it would open up 4.8m which we do. Then, with a Myers trade, we’d have ample cap to go after said dman.

[StanleyCupOneDay]

2 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

The team waited 50 years to get a Hughes.  Don't know how or when we will get another one in the foreseeable future.  I mean...in order to get a Subban you had to trade away a Weber and vice versa.  I don't see a lot of Craig Simpson for Paul Coffey trades on the horizon.  And getting Phil Housley took Dale Hawerchuk.

 

Erik Karlsson, Chara, Niedermayer, Pronger all did become available at one point or another with plenty left in the tank.  But I wonder what we are going to get for Hughes that we wouldn't trade for another Hughes.

If we trade Hughes I’m getting the pitchforks and torches. He probably will end up as the best Canucks D-man ever by the end of his career. There’s no way we should trade someone we’ve waited the entire history of the franchise for. Besides that there is no value other clubs are willing to pay worth what he brings to the team.

[Kevin Biestra]

Just now, Locke Lamora said:

I don’t think its quite the same situation, Neely was much younger and a diamond in the rough. We KNOW Bo is good (close to “great” in some aspects). Linden….I’m not sure his career arc was as ascendant as Bo’s is right now when he was shipped outta here. But he was much beloved in the heart of the fans….more so than Horvat is I’d say, due to the Cup run which had a “legendary” aspect to it.

 

But yeah, in terms of just being “dumb” this would be right up there with those in my opinion.

 

 

Linden was on the decline when he was traded.  He had gone from the NHL's ironman to missing much of the season due to a blown out knee.  After the injury he was roughly a 0.5 points per game guy.  Was never quite the same.  Before the injury he was a beast.  Afterward he was a Selke type of guy.

[Canucks Curse]

7 minutes ago, stawns said:

moving a winger for a winger isn't what they need.  They need a dman or C coming back in a Boeser trade

they also need cap space, Zadina is like 1.5 million

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I would venture that he is possibly the most irreplaceable talent the Canucks have had in 50 years other than Bure.  I am not entirely sure...but these defensemen are a very rare breed.  Now it remains a possibility that he will be Mike Green...but the upside goes up through Phil Housley and perhaps higher.

Average defensively

Can't shoot and doesn't score goals

 

He's a playmaker and a skater.........that's not irreplaceable and you can absorb the loss of some of his offense with better overall defense, which is what wins Cups.

 

Move him and you're getting back 3 top notch pieces, at least.

[chon derry]

2 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

The team waited 50 years to get a Hughes.  Don't know how or when we will get another one in the foreseeable future.  I mean...in order to get a Subban you had to trade away a Weber and vice versa.  I don't see a lot of Craig Simpson for Paul Coffey trades on the horizon.  And getting Phil Housley took Dale Hawerchuk.

 

Erik Karlsson, Chara, Niedermayer, Pronger all did become available at one point or another with plenty left in the tank.  But I wonder what we are going to get for Hughes that we wouldn't trade for another Hughes.

If you look at how fast the game has become. It suggests that every position (defence included) has become faster with smaller defencemen as well. I think the availability of high profile players is becoming more the norm than less. One can only hope the canucks can draft with some benning luck. Throughout the draft rounds, Alvin hasn’t shown that kind of knowledge. Yikes. 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

Agree, but it would open up 4.8m which we do. Then, with a Myers trade, we’d have ample cap to go after said dman.

I hinestly think we're alldreaming about cap space that isn't going to come with trades of Boeser, Myers etc.  All of those deals will be cap out and cap in........the best I'd hope for is a million in space in any deal

[BC_Hawk]

Just now, StanleyCupOneDay said:

If we trade Hughes I’m getting the pitchforks and torches. He probably will end up as the best Canucks D-man ever by the end of his career. There’s no way we should trade someone we’ve waited the entire history of the franchise for. Besides that there is no value other clubs are willing to pay worth what he brings to the team.

I agree; it is so disappointing watching him this year with lower confidence. He’s still getting points, but we need 2021/22 QH. Finding him the proper partner is job #.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

they also need cap space, Zadina is like 1.5 million

why would detroit do that?

 

Boeser will almost certainly be a hockey trade and it needs to be a dman or #3 C

[Canucks Curse]

Just now, BC_Hawk said:

I agree; it is so disappointing watching him this year with lower confidence. He’s still getting points, but we need 2021/22 QH. Finding him the proper partner is job #.

I agree and tbh, I am disappointed hit has not happened, a guy like Ahl Hronek from DET, Marino was available and for a decent price, wtf, I feel like smart ppl come to van and just crap the bed

[Kevin Biestra]

Just now, stawns said:

Average defensively

Can't shoot and doesn't score goals

 

He's a playmaker and a skater.........that's not irreplaceable and you can absorb the loss of some of his offense with better overall defense, which is what wins Cups.

 

Move him and you're getting back 3 top notch pieces, at least.

 

Three top notch pieces?  Coffey once got Craig Simpson, once got Shanahan and a couple times got a mixed bag of stuff...all in his prime.

 

And that was before the cap.  Like I said, Subban and Weber got each other.  I think the Canucks can acquire a Huddy or Lowe type to play with Quinn and allow him to Housley / Coffey his way into the stratosphere and get that for forwards.  We're talking about an Adam Foote type or and Edler or Tanev from younger days maybe.  Excellent defensemen but available for less than a king's ransom and sometimes as free agents (the exact way we lost everyone from Willie Mitchell to Tanev and so on).

[BC_Hawk]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

I hinestly think we're alldreaming about cap space that isn't going to come with trades of Boeser, Myers etc.  All of those deals will be cap out and cap in........the best I'd hope for is a million in space in any deal

Not saying it would happen, just referring to the proposal. Honestly, I think BB is untradable right now unless we take back a crap contract or retain..both not the right move. Unfortunately our FOs FU yesterday kinda will force something.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, BC_Hawk said:

I agree; it is so disappointing watching him this year with lower confidence. He’s still getting points, but we need 2021/22 QH. Finding him the proper partner is job #.

he's got many gifts, but his shot is barely NHL level, if it is at all, and his defense, though improving, is average at best.  He's not irreplaceable and the return for him would be pretty big

[Jaimito]

19 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Kind of like when Linden was President and took the heat for Benning? 

Y. But they never replaced Linden and JB was telling the media they live day to day. 

[Locke Lamora]

This trade Hughes talk makes me uneasy after waiting 50 years to have a D man with his sort of abilities.

[BC_Hawk]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

he's got many gifts, but his shot is barely NHL level, if it is at all, and his defense, though improving, is average at best.  He's not irreplaceable and the return for him would be pretty big

His 2022/23 point shot is crap, not previous years. His rookie year, I was amazed how many of his blue line wristers were able to get through traffic and on net. In addition, 2021/22 QHs defense was decent to good.

 

Once again, he’s playing with zero confidence right now on both ends of the ice. Quinn has showed that he is able to work on his weaknesses, but it is hard to excel when a FO sets u up for failure. At least JB thought he had secured Hamonic in that role….PA; Dermott and a prayer.

Edited December 4, 2022 by BC_Hawk

[chon derry]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

he's got many gifts, but his shot is barely NHL level, if it is at all, and his defense, though improving, is average at best.  He's not irreplaceable and the return for him would be pretty big

Even if it meant multiple lesser valued younger players of which become valued for swap trades after the fact. These periferal players in the cap era do hold value. And more is better than less. If their willing to wheel and deal upwards towards  player ready.