[PGT] Arizona Coyotes at Vancouver Canucks | Dec. 03, 2022

[chon derry]

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

Do you get the sense that I have Monty Pythons 'always look on the bright side of life ' on repeat in my head?

What do we call it ‘carry on up the’…..?

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

Sure. But can nux draft or trade for another QH like player with whatever they get from NJ?  Probably not. He's already projected to be the best D men in Canucks history.  

 

But everyone wants to rebuild again, like it's easy to get QH or EP just by tanking. 

I like Hughes, but he's undersized and average defensively........not really what I covet in a #1-2 dman.  

[StanleyCupOneDay]

12 hours ago, Darius said:

I had my gripes with the Benning crew but what I’ve seen from JR and crew is disappointing so far.  Bruce is a good man and no matter what happens I’ll always view him in a positive light. They threw him under the bus, and it was no fair. Last year of a contract and he gets criticized by the president  via the media early on . Keep that shit behind closed doors.  Not only that, how do the players read the situation when the they hear the president trashing the coach via the media.  Just amateur crap. 

Sometimes change doesn’t mean better. We honestly should know that as a fanbase by now given the previous history of the team. Benning had many flaws, but he never ever threw anyone under the bus, especially to the media. In fact, he was loyal to a fault, which eventually cost him his job. Bruce doesn’t deserve any of this shit. I’m giving JR, Allvin and crew until the start of next season before I write them off, but to say the quality of their tenure aside from the Bear trade so far has been disappointing would be an understatement.
 

I had such high hopes too at the start with a multi-cup winner leading us, but I’m starting to wonder if executives sometimes are the same as players: just because they were good before doesn’t automatically mean they’re going to be good with different people on their new team. The league changes so rapidly, sometimes within the same season. What worked 2 years ago doesn’t now because teams are constantly experimenting and adjusting to try to become better.
 

Rutherford after 2016 and 2017 had his team win only 1 playoff round in 2018 and won 0 in the following 3 seasons. Maybe his methods no longer worked anymore.

[Ghostsof1915]

6 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

You'd lose that bet, there were many kicking around who'd have been fine seeing both shipped out. 

 

As for Horvat, it doesn't matter what fans want if he doesn't want to stay and his wanting to stay isn't the guarantee some folks like to believe it is.

 

All he's done coming up as a Canuck is lose on mediocre teams for the most part. He made the playoffs once on a team that was actually good, and that was a Sedin led team. He also made the Covid playoffs due to the season being canceled and math. With Markstrom having gone down with injury and the team stumbling we likely would have missed had the season continued.

 

He ain't getting any younger, careers go quick, and there are teams out there like Boston and Carolina who could use a 1/2 who will likely pay his price. If he wants to win and make the playoffs consistently there's a good chance it'll have to be somewhere else.

Shipped out is one thing. Letting them walk for nothing (As there wasn't any trades done last season at the deadline) would not have gone over well. 

[chon derry]

5 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

Sure. But can nux draft or trade for another QH like player with whatever they get from NJ?  Probably not. He's already projected to be the best D men in Canucks history.  

 

But everyone wants to rebuild again, like it's easy to get QH or EP just by tanking. 

The salary saved by the trade would have to go towards a player ready , of equivalent salary. Or a lower valued package of younger players  (dman) 

[Googlie]

7 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I'm pretty sure someone in Abby is doing better than Stillman. 

Colliton is very high on his Brisebois-Juulsen pairing.  His #1 pair, and top defensive unit (watch his most recent interview).  Wolanin vies with Rathbone as his top offensive D-men.  (And neither Brisebois nor Juulsen looked out of place for the 2 games each was called up for (didn't play toether, ofc ... one with OEL and the other with Myers, in different games).  As both were emergency injury callups, neither could stay.

[ToTellTheTruth]

That win should be a real wake up call for fans to see how bad this group is.

 

Going 2 for 8 on the PP is the only reason they won and Arizona took 4 dumb penalties, two for too many men and two for delay of game, that is why they lost the game. Vancouver didn't beat them they were lucky the Yotes made dumb mistakes.

 

Arizona is on a brutal road trip again.

 

A dull game where the big stories are a player almost being benched and another getting a hit record and the music type.

 

Montreal won't make those types of mistakes

 

 

[Coconuts]

6 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Shipped out is one thing. Letting them walk for nothing (As there wasn't any trades done last season at the deadline) would not have gone over well. 

On that we can agree, I believe there could have been trades had for both but a Boeser trade would have likely involved another team being able to negotiate their own extension beforehand

Edited December 4, 2022 by Coconuts

[ilduce39]

31 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Big gamble, but I think Horvat might be that player to get VAN a great return. He's having a career year (on pace for 60 goals?), a C who wins faceoffs. He's also only making $5.5 this season. 

It’s a hard thing to plan for, but moving Bo and getting one of those really good C’s at the top of the draft might be the best case scenario. 

[Ghostsof1915]

3 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

It’s a hard thing to plan for, but moving Bo and getting one of those really good C’s at the top of the draft might be the best case scenario. 

And losing Bo, means we're hooped on centres. He's the only true centre we have right now. Petey and Miller can't pick up that much slack. Unless this is a devious way of trying to get 1st overall. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Ghostsof1915

[Locke Lamora]

So much drama, here and on Canuck Twitter, lol. Some folks completely consumed by the soap opera. I will say that this management has left a lot to be desired thus far. It does feel like something big could be coming…and I just hope this group is up to the task.

 

Anyway, I find myself is awe of what is happening with Horvat before our very eyes. To goal totals themselves are almost surreal to look at…but its this ELITE net front tipping ability that really gets me. Where did this come from? Makes me think we should make Bo the de facto net front guy. Dude is built like a tank and he can’t be moved easily from the crease. No doubt the contract situation - and in my opinion the measure of disrespect he’s been shown by management - has given him an extra boost of motivation, but I also think this shows how what kind of “ethic to improve” Bo has in his approach. Well documented was his skating improvement early on. He’s clearly become one of the best face off men in the league. And now the clear evidence that he’s put in another effort to improve his shot and finishing - and the ridiculous hand eye with the deflections. Just an all round impressive player and person.

 

I think he’s got virtually no shot to match the Bure and Mogilny season goal totals (60,55) but I think he has a chance to equal or surpass Naslund and Bertuzzi’s best years (48, 46) and I hope he remains here so that we may see it in OUR jersey, not another one.

 

Despite what’s happening I’ll continue to watch every game, like I always have.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Maginator]

2 minutes ago, Locke Lamora said:

So much drama, here and on Canuck Twitter, lol. Some folks completely consumed by the soap opera. I will say that this management has left a lot to be desired thus far. It does feel like something big could be coming…and I just hope this group is up to the task.

 

Anyway, I find myself is awe of what is happening with Horvat before our very eyes. To goal totals themselves are almost surreal to look at…but its this ELITE net front tipping ability that really gets me. Where did this come from? Makes me think we should make Bo the de facto net front guy. Dude is built like a tank and he can’t be moved easily from the crease. No doubt the contract situation - and in my opinion the measure of disrespect he’s been shown by management - has given him an extra boost of motivation, but I also think this shows how what kind of “ethic to improve” Bo has in his approach. Well documented was his skating improvement early on. He’s clearly become one of the best face off men in the league. And now the clear evidence that he’s put in another effort to improve his shot and finishing - and the ridiculous hand eye with the deflections. Just an all round impressive player and person.

 

I think he’s got virtually no shot to match the Bure and Mogilny season goal totals (60,55) but I think he has a chance to equal or surpass Naslund and Bertuzzi’s best years (48, 46) and I hope he remains here so that we may see it in OUR jersey, not another one.

 

Despite what’s happening I’ll continue to watch every game, like I always have.

This team is the embarrassment of the league right now.

 

- Start the season off with a 7 game losing streak

- Stillman trade

- President publicly calling out our coach but not firing him

- More rumours of "friction in the locker room"

- Luongo ROH/Number retirement fiasco

- Boeser trade rumors/"scratch"

 

This is hard to look at. Kind of ashamed to be a Canucks fan lately. This is all following 10 years of being a bottom of the barrel hockey team. I'll still support this team always but this management group is really starting to piss me off. Will it be another 5 years of mediocrity and lack of direction? 

 

Just not sold that this management group can get us out of this mess. I'm afraid they're going to make things worse based off this season's track record..

[ToTellTheTruth]

7 minutes ago, StanleyCupOneDay said:

Sometimes change doesn’t mean better. We honestly should know that as a fanbase by now given the previous history of the team. Benning had many flaws, but he never ever threw anyone under the bus, especially to the media. In fact, he was loyal to a fault, which eventually cost him his job. Bruce doesn’t deserve any of this shit. I’m giving JR, Allvin and crew until the start of next season before I write them off, but to say the quality of their tenure aside from the Bear trade so far has been disappointing would be an understatement.
 

I had such high hopes too at the start with a multi-cup winner leading us, but I’m starting to wonder if executives sometimes are the same as players: just because they were good before doesn’t automatically mean they’re going to be good with different people on their new team. The league changes so rapidly, sometimes within the same season. What worked 2 years ago doesn’t now because teams are constantly experimenting and adjusting to try to become better.
 

Rutherford after 2016 and 2017 had his team win only 1 playoff round in 2018 and won 0 in the following 3 seasons. Maybe his methods no longer worked anymore.

Sometimes when a message is being sent to someone that you really don't want to attract attention to you point a finger at someone under that person's command knowing that person is locked into a confined set of rules or circumstances. Bruce is under Allvin's "command" and what is said about him is really directed at the commander, the buck stops with him. JR's criticism if anything empowers Bruce more because he can only deal with what he has been dealt. 

 

Rutherford is walking a thin line, support the guy you hired, Allvin, and take some of the heat off him.

 

The amount of Boudreau stuff is all the result of Allvin's job performance, it is easier to put heat on Allvin through Boudreau because Bruce is on an expiring contract. Rutherford was not born last night all those criticisms could be directly at Allvin but if he did that Allvin is gone.

 

Rutherford is smart enough to know if the heat is on a guy leaving then the heat is reduced for awhile, I think this Bruce stuff is just a delaying tactic to gain time for Allvin and the 3 assistant GM's.

 

Not losing to Arizona was just dumb luck

 

[ilduce39]

12 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

And losing Bo, means we're hooped on centres. He's the only true centre we have right now. Petey and Miller can't pick up that much slack. Unless this is a devious way of trying to get 1st overall. 

I think the top 8 or so in the draft are all C’s besides that Russian kid. That’s what I was alluding to - not just Bedard.

[chon derry]

10 minutes ago, Locke Lamora said:

So much drama, here and on Canuck Twitter, lol. Some folks completely consumed by the soap opera. I will say that this management has left a lot to be desired thus far. It does feel like something big could be coming…and I just hope this group is up to the task.

 

Anyway, I find myself is awe of what is happening with Horvat before our very eyes. To goal totals themselves are almost surreal to look at…but its this ELITE net front tipping ability that really gets me. Where did this come from? Makes me think we should make Bo the de facto net front guy. Dude is built like a tank and he can’t be moved easily from the crease. No doubt the contract situation - and in my opinion the measure of disrespect he’s been shown by management - has given him an extra boost of motivation, but I also think this shows how what kind of “ethic to improve” Bo has in his approach. Well documented was his skating improvement early on. He’s clearly become one of the best face off men in the league. And now the clear evidence that he’s put in another effort to improve his shot and finishing - and the ridiculous hand eye with the deflections. Just an all round impressive player and person.

 

I think he’s got virtually no shot to match the Bure and Mogilny season goal totals (60,55) but I think he has a chance to equal or surpass Naslund and Bertuzzi’s best years (48, 46) and I hope he remains here so that we may see it in OUR jersey, not another one.

 

Despite what’s happening I’ll continue to watch every game, like I always have.

He’s shown these attributes his whole career ( point history to back it up) and your bang with everything you said. If it proves out that he wants out , then all of this sits on these 2 bozos in charge. He has what no other player on this team has. And it’s Not even close! 

Edited December 4, 2022 by chon derry

[stawns]

29 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

Sure. But can nux draft or trade for another QH like player with whatever they get from NJ?  Probably not. He's already projected to be the best D men in Canucks history.  

 

But everyone wants to rebuild again, like it's easy to get QH or EP just by tanking. 

I don't want to tank, at all

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[stawns]

14 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

And losing Bo, means we're hooped on centres. He's the only true centre we have right now. Petey and Miller can't pick up that much slack. Unless this is a devious way of trying to get 1st overall. 

losing Bo puts this franchise back years, if not decades, imo.  You move players where there are other players who have similar skillsets.  There's no on ein the org who can do what Bo can do.  The question is, is it too late?

[Jaimito]

42 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

Sometimes when a message is being sent to someone that you really don't want to attract attention to you point a finger at someone under that person's command knowing that person is locked into a confined set of rules or circumstances. Bruce is under Allvin's "command" and what is said about him is really directed at the commander, the buck stops with him. JR's criticism if anything empowers Bruce more because he can only deal with what he has been dealt. 

 

Rutherford is walking a thin line, support the guy you hired, Allvin, and take some of the heat off him.

 

The amount of Boudreau stuff is all the result of Allvin's job performance, it is easier to put heat on Allvin through Boudreau because Bruce is on an expiring contract. Rutherford was not born last night all those criticisms could be directly at Allvin but if he did that Allvin is gone.

 

Rutherford is smart enough to know if the heat is on a guy leaving then the heat is reduced for awhile, I think this Bruce stuff is just a delaying tactic to gain time for Allvin and the 3 assistant GM's.

 

Not losing to Arizona was just dumb luck

 

Y, JR seems to be front guy. PA rarely talks much and is shielded, unlike JB.   Not a bad thing. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Jaimito