(Rumour) 4 teams interested in J.T. Miller

[Ted Lasso]

 

6 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

That’s actually not emotional whatsoever. That’s based on simple logic and looking at the age that players regress. A 34 year old (Millers age at earliest we’ll be able to contend) will not be able to contribute like they did before they’re 30. That’s not some earth shattering claim, there’s plenty of evidence to back that up.

 

I don’t have to say “I know more than professionals” they’ve already admitted that their initial belief of where this team was at was wrong. And they’ve shown that through their recent moves. 
 

All players are available but Pettersson and Hughes, tells me that they are thinking much farther ahead than their initial 2 years. So if that’s the case it’s not unreasonable to think that Miller might not fit in that timeline anymore.

 

Fans liking certain players is the type of emotional decisions that don’t need to be made right now. It all comes down to when we can realistically be a contender. That timeline is not what it once was and people need to accept that.

 

 

That should tell you our focus is the next 4-5 years. They are 24 and 25 this year, entering their prime. Trading Miller sets us back a couple years as we cobble together a 2nd line, wasting 2 years of their prime

Edited February 19, 2023 by Kenny Powers

[grandmaster]

4 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

In my opinion, this is completely backwards. Logical tells us a player heading into their 30s and beyond is statistically more likely to regress then get better or stay the same.

 

https://hockey-graphs.com/2017/03/23/a-new-look-at-aging-curves-for-nhl-skaters-part-1/

 

Emotional response can get in the way if that because we get attached to players and hope they don't follow the statical norm. 

Gretzky once said stats are for losers, lol. Just thought I throw that in as a joke more than anything. 
 

Anyways, each individual player is different. Thankfully Miller has never had a serious injury (knock on wood) which would come more into play in the later years.
 

JT is also a different animal as he got his best stats at an “old age” of 28. Players peak at different times and can maintain a lot longer than others like Pav and Giroux. It is very reasonable to suggest that JT will be a good producer like these guys up to his mid 30’s as his production excelled as the way it did.

[EdgarM]

8 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

In my opinion, this is completely backwards. Logical tells us a player heading into their 30s and beyond is statistically more likely to regress then get better or stay the same.

 

https://hockey-graphs.com/2017/03/23/a-new-look-at-aging-curves-for-nhl-skaters-part-1/

 

Emotional response can get in the way if that because we get attached to players and hope they don't follow the statical norm. 

This is fine when it comes to a player producing points but what about players like Iginla, Linden and Beagle who bring more to the table other then points? We have seen with this team that pure offensive players do not make a winning team, you need a little more then that.

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

You're shifted the focus....talking about speculation that involves Miller's future play. Speculating that we will automatically be "improving".

 

Again...we're adding some players who change the dynamic a bit. This year, our goaltending has sucked. And yes, that does reveal some deficiencies but people here have zero patience. Look at our roster from a mere 2 years ago. No guarantees are ever the case...even IF we run with your plan.

 

It's been a bit of a dog chasing its tail and there have been many changes. With more to come. I just don't think JT Miller being moved out will solve as many problems as it will create....here and down the road. While he's here, this baby faced team is getting a taste of being disgruntled and dissatisfied. I don't know that that's a bad thing if they watch a guy like JT who stays here and battles despite that.

I’m talking about how long it realistically takes for a team to build itself into a contender.
 

You can live on hope all you want, but looking at how many years it’s taken current contenders to build, you’ll see it’s gonna take a long time to build up our defense and acquire legit role players. There’s no magic wand that you can wave to fix this issues. It takes time and patience, which is something past management didn’t have and why were in this mess.

 

Miller will be well pst his prime by the time this team resembles a top team. In the meantime we’re forgoing an opportunity to get good assets and cap space to continuing rebuilding. Which we should have been doing for years.

 

 

[HKSR]

9 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

This is annoying.

 

Emotional thinking is "oh no, a guy past 30 will regress significantly". Logical thinking is guys in good condition, in their 30's, aren't "old men" who will suddenly decline at a rapid pace as their aging bodies fail them.

 

Emotional thinking is that fans know much more than the professionals in place making the decisions. Logic, to me, tells me they know what they're doing/working with.

 

I really hate when that "we're logical, you're emotional" stuff gets thrown out there. It's weak.

 

Logical is knowing that none of us can predict the future and young guys can fail just like the old guys. Experience factors in where speed maybe declines.

 

On paper, sure....the plan to just "trade all the players", add water and instantly be on the right road sounds great. But it isn't logical to assume that'll be the case...it's as much a risk as anything. 

I've said it many times on here, leave it to a bunch of CDC yahoos that just can't seem to embrace what we have in a player like JT Miller.

 

The guy scored 99 points last season, is on pace for 70+ points this season, is playing a leadership role to guys like Podz, standing up for our young guys like last night with Konecny, stepping up in other aspects like his faceoffs, and more astoundingly will very likely finish his career among the highest scoring players of ALL TIME for this franchise.  Instead of embracing all that and cheering him on, these guys are ready to trade him away for a bag of pucks.

 

No wonder players don't want to come here, and fans of this franchise are the laughing stock for the rest of the league.

 

[MeanSeanBean]

2 minutes ago, IRR said:

Fair, but not every player does, or even sometime it’s only a little. It could go either way. I think the lesson for many is stop assuming (stating it as fact)…no one has a crystal ball! As I’ve said too many times today, happy medium with things. 
 

That being said, Deb is not wrong in saying that there’s a better chance of not declining if a player takes care of their health / fitness. Hell, look a Jagr! 

I've never started it as fact, and most of the arguments I see in regards to Miller don't state it as fact either. But the overwhelming statistical average does paint a picture, and that's what most people apposed to signing aging player long term reference.

 

For every Jagr there is 100 OELs where we see a significant drop off in performance at around 30. To further that argument, Jagr is not only a biological anomaly, but also wildy concidered an absolute fitness beast. Other notables are the Sedin Twins, and players like Crosby and Ovechkin who have aged like fine wines in the NHL. But there has, and was extensive reports backing the work ethic of these players. I don't ever recall hearing that Miller is consistently one of the top fitness performers year in and year out. But, if I'm wrong here I'd love to hear to and see a source. I just don't recall seeing it personally.

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

Trading Miller sets us back a couple years when we’re trying to build around Petey and Hughes, who are just entering their primes now.

 

That should tell you our focus is the next 4-5 years. They are 24 and 25 this year, entering their prime. Trading Miller sets us back a couple years as we cobble together a 2nd line, wasting 2 years of their prime

That’s irrelevant as we’ll be “wasting” two years anyways while we keep rebuilding.

 

Cutting corners is why we’re in this mess. Thankfully it appears that management is willing to adopt a longer term vision now. Only way we get out of this.

[-DLC-]

4 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Miller will be well pst his prime by the time this team resembles a top team.

 

 

Well then Petey'll like be outta here too. I doubt he'll stick around. I hope you penciled that part in.

 

But I think he thinks more like I do than you do. That'll be the true teller in it all. 

 

 

 

 

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

I've said it many times on here, leave it to a bunch of CDC yahoos that just can't seem to embrace what we have in a player like JT Miller.

 

The guy scored 99 points last season, is on pace for 70+ points this season, is playing a leadership role to guys like Podz, standing up for our young guys like last night with Konecny, stepping up in other aspects like his faceoffs, and more astoundingly will very likely finish his career among the highest scoring players of ALL TIME for this franchise.  Instead of embracing all that and cheering him on, these guys are ready to trade him away for a bag of pucks.

 

No wonder players don't want to come here, and fans of this franchise are the laughing stock for the rest of the league.

 

It has nothing to do with liking Miller or not or what kind of player he is. That completely misses the argument.

 

It’s about holding onto a player and forgoing assets in the hopes that you’ll be good while they’re still in their prime. That’s not realistic in this case.

 

The timeline has changed and management will continue to make moves based on that.

[TheRussianRocket1994]

2 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

 

That should tell you our focus is the next 4-5 years. They are 24 and 25 this year, entering their prime. Trading Miller sets us back a couple years as we cobble together a 2nd line, wasting 2 years of their prime

That’s what some don’t understand…..keep f’n around for an extra 2-3 years and Petey, Hughes, Demko etc are going to want the f out of dodge…if that happens add another 5-10 years, which people have already b****** about the last 8 ish. 

[grandmaster]

I don’t think the ones wanting a JT trade or the ones wanting to keep him can convince the other side. Seems like we need an arbitrator on this forum, lol.

. 
 

 

I hope that if he stays on after this season is up and when his NTC kicks in, we stop these arguments that seem to go nowhere.

 

[-DLC-]

4 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

It has nothing to do with liking Miller or not or what kind of player he is. That completely misses the argument.

 

It’s about holding onto a player and forgoing assets in the hopes that you’ll be good while they’re still in their prime. That’s not realistic in this case.

 

The timeline has changed and management will continue to make moves based on that.

Assets are the hopeful vision but they also can just as easily become liabilities. Logic means that we just don't know...they're all "risks" until they're not

 

The formula isn't guaranteed...when you work with individuals who have to bond and have chemistry as a team, that can't be penciled in. It isn't proven until it plays out and you see how that unfolds.

 

But that's what people here do...they think it through in their head like it IS a magic wand.

[DeNiro]

Just now, -DLC- said:

Well then Petey'll like be outta here too. I doubt he'll stick around. I hope you penciled that part in.

 

But I think he thinks more like I do that you do. He has hope that there are some pretty good pieces here to work with/from. 

 

 

Except with the cap space and assets acquired from a trade they’ll be able to acquire players (like defensemen) that help turn us into an actual good team.

 

Theyre not gonna make decisions based on what Pettersson thinks. Their focus is to give him a team that can win year in and year out for a long time. They’re far from that goal right now.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, IRR said:

That’s what some don’t understand…..keep f’n around for an extra 2-3 years and Petey, Hughes, Demko etc are going to want the f out of dodge…if that happens add another 5-10 years, which people have already b****** about the last 8 ish. 

And if they do, then you do it and get the huge hauls from those deals.  If they keep miller, and settle into the mushy middle, they might want out anyway 

[Ted Lasso]

4 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

That’s irrelevant as we’ll be “wasting” two years anyways while we keep rebuilding.

 

Cutting corners is why we’re in this mess. Thankfully it appears that management is willing to adopt a longer term vision now. Only way we get out of this.

It gives them a chance to play meaningful hockey in their prime. That’s pretty relevant.

 

I agree it will take a lot to fix our D, but building around EP and QH means we need to improve next year, not tear it down to the studs

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

It has nothing to do with liking Miller or not or what kind of player he is. That completely misses the argument.

 

It’s about holding onto a player and forgoing assets in the hopes that you’ll be good while they’re still in their prime. That’s not realistic in this case.

 

The timeline has changed and management will continue to make moves based on that.

My point is things can change quickly.  We don't know what the future holds.  What if we win the lottery? What if we find more gems through the NCAA or in Europe a la Kuzmenko? 

[DeNiro]

Just now, -DLC- said:

Assets sometimes are liabilities. Logic means that we just don't know...they're all "risks" until they're not.

They’re all pieces that can be used to acquire players in the future when we’re ready to contend.

 

The reason we’re in our current position is because management wasn’t thinking long term. They can start doing that with a Miller trade.

[MeanSeanBean]

7 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

This is fine when it comes to a player producing points but what about players like Iginla, Linden and Beagle who bring more to the table other then points? We have seen with this team that pure offensive players do not make a winning team, you need a little more then that.

Linden and Beagle stayed relevant as they aged because they excelled at the defensive side of the game. One of Miller's biggest knocks is he doesn't generally read the defensive side as well as he could. 

 

Iginla was one of the best power forwards in the history of the NHL and in a completely different tier at JT Miller in my eyes.

[Ted Lasso]

4 minutes ago, IRR said:

That’s what some don’t understand…..keep f’n around for an extra 2-3 years and Petey, Hughes, Demko etc are going to want the f out of dodge…if that happens add another 5-10 years, which people have already b****** about the last 8 ish. 

Yep. You don’t know what you’ve got til it’s gone.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Kenny Powers said:

Yep. You don’t know what you’ve got til it’s gone.

I think we've got a pretty clear picture of what they've got with Miller.