Ted Lasso Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, DeNiro said: What? No those are definitely not players you target. Im not sure who’s available. But if you have the space and the assets you can get into those conversations. I had no idea Dach was available last offseason. Who knows what young center a team would be willing to part with this upcoming one. Would you be trading a 2024 1st for this player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket1994 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, stawns said: I mean, that is the cyclical nature of professional sports isn't it? Is this a team you can see winning a Stanley Cup in the next 5-6 years? That's what every single sports organization has done, ever. You build something, you hope it'll succeed, but if it doesn't, you cycle back and try again. You’re not wrong…of course there is. But, there is doing that efficiently, or prolonging it and f’n it up. The later has happen the last 7-8 years, but there is now the ability to do it right and I think that’s the plan. All I’m saying is why f it up again, lose star players and prolong it another 8-10, when it can be done in a much shorter time if that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Just now, Shayster007 said: No, I think he will likely be a negative asset at 8 million for the second half of his career and will need to be moved to create cap space. For the first half of his career, I don't believe this team will be competing for a Stanley Cup. That's exactly why I didn't want to sign him long term. Yep. And then what we spend more assets to dump him or buy him out and be stuck with more dead cap? Thinking about it logically you can see the risk outweighs the reward of maybe one playoff run in his prime. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, IRR said: Because the ignorance / stupidity on here the last while is mind blowing!! Some need to get some common sense, logic and learn how to read! And stop stating their ignorance, opinions and assumptions as facts. I tried to find a happy medium and say it could go either way, but you’re the one pretty much stating he’ll decline as fact…yet somehow you’re flipping it. Maybe some of you need to stop & re-think / re-read what you are saying. Yup, we can agree there. Increasingly find if difficult to have a conversation without someone overreacting and starting to make personal attacks instead of actually discussing a subject. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post grandmaster Posted February 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, Shayster007 said: I don't think any of us are trying to convince the other side. This is a discussion board, and we are discussing opposing views on a subject. Isn't that the entire point of this forum? Sure is but the same arguments keep coming up. There is literally no new information on this subject that we haven’t seen in the first 100 or so pages. The logic of keeping JT clearly outweighs trading him. As said before: - JT is a leader in points, soon to be most for hits, best in faceoffs and our only option for being a #2 centre - JT on the team helps with the re-tool and beyond, adding a proper mix of youth and veterans to later compete like the good teams of today - JT’s age is not indicative of a great slow down later due to his increased productivity and 99 points just one year ago at age 28 - Ridding the team of good players will turn the team into a garbage dump most players will refuse to come or extend (think Petey) - Clearing Cap space needs to be prioritized on underperforming players; Brock, Myers, Garland, OEL. - Getting more futures are easily met when we retain a small salary on trades. We still keep most of that Cap space by getting rid of that player Points made against him: - he gives the puck away too much. I already posted this being a fallacy. Good players making good plays turn over the puck a lot. JT is not even in the top 25 for this in the NHL. I guess the leader in this category, Pastrnak, must be garbage right? - his Cap hit is needed for the re-tool. We have other targets. See my answer at the top. - he is not well liked, Petey said on TV that JT is very emotional and can get worked up but did say he has a place on this team. Petey is smart enough to value JT, even if they don’t go for a beer together after a game (who knows maybe they do) - doesn’t back check or play well defensively. Hello, this goes for the whole team! As said by Deb, the ones constantly on JT never acknowledge the good plays he does. - his plus minus is bad. No kidding. This is a team stat more than an individual one and if you see his career numbers he is well into the plus. - he is too emotional and and an a hole. He brings passion and heart to the team that has a lot of duds who simply look like they don’t give a crap. That clown who sucker punched Garland, regardless if he was big man Reaves, JT would have smoked him back. That’s leadership and team play. That slam on the goalie net with the stick was nothing more than getting Delia moving. Folks made too big of a deal out of that How does the above logic not resonate? All this has been said so many times and this ongoing discussion is like hitting your head against a wall… 1 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket1994 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Shayster007 said: Yup, we can agree there. Good job champ…defect when someone throws the facts at you! Common for a handful of you on here. Edited February 19, 2023 by IRR 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Kenny Powers said: Would you be trading a 2024 1st for this player? Depends on the player. With conditions on it probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Just now, grandmaster said: Sure is but the same arguments keep coming up. There is literally no new information on this subject that we haven’t seen in the first 100 or so pages. The logic of keeping JT clearly outweighs trading him. As said before: - JT is a leader in points, soon to be most for hits, best in faceoffs and our only option for being a #2 centre - JT on the team helps with the re-tool and beyond, adding a proper mix of youth and veterans to later compete like the good teams of today - JT’s age is not indicative of a great slow down later due to his increased productivity and 99 points just one year ago at age 28 - Ridding the team of good players will turn the team into a garbage dump most players will refuse to come or extend (think Petey) - Clearing Cap space needs to be prioritized on underperforming players; Brock, Myers, Garland, OEL. - Getting more futures are easily met when we retain a small salary on trades. We still keep most of that Cap space by getting rid of that player Points made against him: - he gives the puck away too much. I already posted this being a fallacy. Good players making good plays turn over the puck a lot. JT is not even in the top 25 for this in the NHL. I guess the leader in this category, Pastrnak, must be garbage right? - his Cap hit is needed for the re-tool. We have other targets. See my answer at the top. - he is not well liked, Petey said on TV that JT is very emotional and can get worked up but did say he has a place on this team. Petey is smart enough to value JT, even if they don’t go for a beer together after a game (who knows maybe they do) - doesn’t back check or play well defensively. Hello, this goes for the whole team! As said by Deb, the ones constantly on JT never acknowledge the good plays he does. - his plus minus is bad. No kidding. This is a team stat more than an individual one and if you see his career numbers he is well into the plus. - he is too emotional and and an a hole. He brings passion and heart to the team that has a lot of duds who simply look like they don’t give a crap. That clown who sucker punched Garland, regardless if he was big man Reaves, JT would have smoked him back. That’s leadership and team play. That slam on the goalie net with the stick was nothing more than getting Delia moving. Folks made too big of a deal out of that How does the above logic not resonate? All this has been said so many times and this ongoing discussion is like hitting your head against a wall… The reason why we're are discussing it right now is because one of the biggest hockey pundits in the game just reopened that can of worms. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said: Massive blind spot in this debate IMO Yeah I am not one to worry what's going to happen 5-6 years from now , especially in sports. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket1994 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Shayster007 said: Yup, we can agree there. Increasingly find if difficult to have a conversation without someone overreacting and starting to make personal attacks instead of actually discussing a subject. Then, stop coming with crap and use that thing between your ears, then we can have a good / respectful discussion! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Just now, IRR said: Then, stop coming with crap and use that thing between your ears, then we can have a good / respectful discussion! Just can't help yourself eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Too many experts on here .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Yep. And then what we spend more assets to dump him or buy him out and be stuck with more dead cap? Thinking about it logically you can see the risk outweighs the reward of maybe one playoff run in his prime. IMO, the Miller signing made more sense in the summer. I don't think anyone foresaw the team being this terrible. Even some of the more critical on the team like myself still thought we would be in a close battle for the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket1994 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Shayster007 said: Just can't help yourself eh? Nope, not with people like you on here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, DeNiro said: What? No those are definitely not players you target. Im not sure who’s available. But if you have the space and the assets you can get into those conversations. I had no idea Dach was available last offseason. Who knows what young center a team would be willing to part with this upcoming one. having cap space to use has never been more valuable than it is now, imo, whether it's used to sign players or used in the trade market. I know that there seems to be pther paths, but I think that only four players on the team will provide any significant cap space from a trade.....Miller, Hughes, Demko or Petey. Everyone else (Boeser, Garland, Myers, OEL) will almost sure have significant cap coming back, or don't have a hgh enough cap hit to bring much relief. Personally, to do it right, I think they need to deal 2 of those 4 players. By trading two hgh value players, the team get assets and cap space to use and to weaponize in order to add both youth (from weaponized cap space) and veterans (ufa or trades) to the org. Added to some good pieces in the organization, I think a 3-4 year turn around is a reasonable goal, but more importantly, they will have set up some succession within the organization........they will have a decently steady stream of young players being injected into the organization. That's the goal they should be aiming for right now and to do that they need young players and cap space. Edited February 19, 2023 by stawns 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 I don’t think he’s going to be traded at all. Miller’s a Canuck for a few years, at least. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Just now, IRR said: Nope, not with people like you on here! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 1 minute ago, SilentSam said: Too many experts on here .. Stating your opinion does not mean you’re claiming to be an expert. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: I don’t think he’s going to be traded at all. Miller’s a Canuck for a few years, at least. if he's a Canuck for a few years, he's a Canuck for 7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 7 minutes ago, Shayster007 said: No, I think he will likely be a negative asset at 8 million for the second half of his career and will need to be moved to create cap space. For the first half of his career, I don't believe this team will be competing for a Stanley Cup. That's exactly why I didn't want to sign him long term. Likely?, that's your opinion, if we are talking a Sedin, I would agree. He brings more to the table though and so I am a bit more optimistic. I am also a bit more optimistic about the next 4 years with Petey, Hughes and Demko then you are. If we get a partner for Hughes and a couple of good PKers? I think we could do OK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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