[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Pittsburgh Penguins | Jan. 10, 2023

[-Vintage Canuck-]

Congrats, we broke the record.

 

[Mustard Tiger]

55 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I think that's a bit unfair.

Horvat is a very good 2C.

Problem is, we're expecting him to be Patrice Bergeron / Ryan Kesler in his prime. 

He's been overhyped as elite defensively where he is actually just above average. 

We would be very good if we had another Horvat rather than Miller and Boeser. 

He's one of the least problems defensively on this team. Problem is that we have too many guys that are bad defensively

It's not a bit much. We are last in nearly every defending metric lol. He plays the most in those rolls. It's not his fault we only have 3 two way players on this team but it's clear as day he isn't one of them imo

[Canuck Surfer]

43 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I have to disagree he was chasing short term success in exactly the way you stated. He was too eager to force winning onto the team giving up high draft picks and taking on a huge contracts in the process. Much like Miller, OEL, simply doesn't fit the timeline. On top of that if anything we needed a long term high value contract at RD, not LD. As we can clearly see this team was not ready to throw in all their chips as they can't even compete now two years later. I don't get married to any coach or GM so I find it quite easy to point out their flaws with no bias. I liked Benning, still do but he screwed up in hindsight especially there no doubt about it.

 

Of course the plan or hope was that OEL regained his MVP forum, took on all the tough matchups, freed up QH for great success, and made this defence a tight dependable and winning group. None of that happened though. As for Garland he looked fantastic for 20 games and now he's a negative value contract. Just like Benning acquiring pieces we don't need and then later the fans like yourself try to defend it by saying it's not a bad contract. Like possibly but who even cares that's not the goal. It's a waste of $5 mil in a tight cap world.

 

The deal was suspect when it happened, it had a chance of working but many feared what has resulted. It didn't work in reality and it doesn't work in hindsight either.

 

Oleksiak $4.6m

Gostisbehere $4.5m

Dumoulin $4.1m

Dunn $4m

Dillon $3.9m

Zadarov $3.75m

Edmondson $3.5m

Lindgren $3m

Forbort $3m

Garikov $2,8m

Hague $2.29

 

This list goes on and on. All these players are much cheaper and are probably all better than OEL for us moving forward, and Guenther is probably fair value for any of them. Not to mention we could probably pluck someone off waivers to fill in at this point without missing a beat. The trade has turned out be incredibly poor for us tying up $12 million in cap space we don't have.

 

 

 

I love your post.

 

That said many of those players listed would be a great compliment to what we have now; example Edmundson.  Ghostisbehere is not better than Ekmann Larsson. OEL is that hybrid PMD that is also 6'2'' and can (could?) play some defense.  Where Ghost is a one dimensional PP QB. Edmundson would be a great partner for an OEL or Hughes. Gavrikov same, Forbert that may be the intent. Can he keep up with all match ups? Zadorov needs a bit of sheltering, but I believe is a great piece on your team!

 

The reason OEL is bad for us though, is as you have pointed out.  Its not just that he gets paid because he has that hybrid potential. Its that we don't have support D on the correct contract. And layered on top, of course, is the monumental asset cost we paid to get him. 

 

We emptied the cupboards to get OEL, Garland & Miller.   

[Elias Pettersson]

11 minutes ago, Gurn said:

An assists last night                                          plus 2         

a goal the game before that                              plus 0

an assist in the previous game                         plus 1

 2 goals in the first game on Jan.                      minus 1

Averaging over 20 minutes per night.

 

This guy is not the problem, or even a problem

- 56.6% face off wins

We are 1-5 in our last 5 games.  It's great that BO keeps pumping out his individual stats.  Those goals that he is scoring however are not helping us to win many games.  Players are cheating defensively in order to pad their stats.  There is no defensive structure at all on this team and last night's game proved that.  BO can score 100 goals this year and we will still miss the playoffs.  

[Mustard Tiger]

15 minutes ago, Gurn said:

An assists last night                                          plus 2         

a goal the game before that                              plus 0

an assist in the previous game                         plus 1

 2 goals in the first game on Jan.                      minus 1

Averaging over 20 minutes per night.

 

This guy is not the problem, or even a problem

- 56.6% face off wins

Haha zero accountability even with the fans. 32nd ranked goals against and PK is a big deal my friend. If that's his major roll yet those are the results... hmm.

 

Opposing team coaches / fans rip players for one bad play. We are out here trying to justify how we can overpay them and keep them for life on 8x8s regardless of being LAST in many major categories. It's sad really. He can't be traded fast enough 

[nuckin_futz]

22 minutes ago, John.Tallhouse said:

Make the playoffs ? We’d be lucky to make .500

You know that and I know that but management doesn't seem to know that.

[CanucksJay]

1 minute ago, nuckin_futz said:

You know that and I know that but management doesn't seem to know that.

Im sure they do. 

I can't see how they wouldn't make moves by tdl this year.. 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Devron]

Just now, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

And coaching isn’t part of the problem eh? I wish Bruce well. It was fun while it lasted 

[Devron]

6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We are 1-5 in our last 5 games.  It's great that BO keeps pumping out his individual stats.  Those goals that he is scoring however are not helping us to win many games.  Players are cheating defensively in order to pad their stats.  There is no defensive structure at all on this team and last night's game proved that.  BO can score 100 goals this year and we will still miss the playoffs.  

Petey could score 100 goals too and it wouldn’t matter. This team is bananas. Looking forward to that deadline 

[grandmaster]

1 minute ago, Devron said:

And coaching isn’t part of the problem eh? I wish Bruce well. It was fun while it lasted 

Everyone loves BB. Not sure a coach should be looked at as a nice uncle though. 

[Gurn]

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We are 1-5 in our last 5 games.  It's great that BO keeps pumping out his individual stats.  Those goals that he is scoring however are not helping us to win many games.  Players are cheating defensively in order to pad their stats.  There is no defensive structure at all on this team and last night's game proved that.  BO can score 100 goals this year and we will still miss the playoffs.  

Yes- but missing the play offs is a team responsibility- not at the feet of any one player- especially one of the few players that is actually having a good year.

Really on this entire roster who has had a good year?

E.P.

Bo 

Schenn

Mik

Kuz

and

Burroughs?

 

6 out of 21 dressed isn't very good.

[Harold Drunken]

41 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Most of the people on CDC don’t even go to the games so it’s irrelevant what they think. As someone who has probably attended over 500 games myself I have a pretty good idea of what the actual paying customers think so I don’t need to be told to prove anything to be totally honest with you. 
 

This team was on the verge of being sold and moved out of Vancouver at least twice since I’ve been following the team. I don’t think we are in danger of that now as Aquilini has deep pockets and the land that the rink is siting on is actually worth more than the team so there is no reason for Aquilini to sell as the overall value of the Canucks and the real estate the rink is sitting on is close to $2 billion. 
 

We’ve never gone into a full rebuild in over 52 years and it’s never going to happen as long as Aquilini is the owner. If we did go into full rebuild I can only imagine how many jerseys they would need to sell to make up for all of the ones that would be thrown onto the ice. 

So, the fact that you've attended lots of games means you know what an entire fans base would do or think? Not sure how you're connecting those dots, but you seem to be trying to think and speak for tens of thousands of people and completely disregarding their written opinion here because they don't attend 20 games a year. The fact that they don't attend as many games as you do is completely irrelevant as many Canucks fans may not live in the lower mainland or maybe have a different financial situation or personal commitments....doesn't mean they are lesser or less knowledbale fans than you.  I am not sure how selling the team came into the conversation though. 

 

I'm just saying a lot of fans want change, and above all things a clear direction...not this grey area and the status quo. I think they are more likely to lose fans if they keep doing what they've been doing the last decade vs. rebuilding with a fresh approach and exciting young players and prospects to look forward to. Spending to the cap every year, having no flexibility, trading picks/futures, missing the playoffs and picking outside the top 10 every year is achieving absolutely nothing for this franchise while the others around us are getting better or trending upwards. This is a losing recipe and there's ample proof of it. ..the milks gone bad.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Harold Drunken

[AnthonyG]

6 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I love your post.

 

That said many of those players listed would be a great compliment to what we have now; example Edmundson.  Ghostisbehere is not better than Ekmann Larsson. OEL is that hybrid PMD that is also 6'2'' and can (could?) play some defense.  Where Ghost is a one dimensional PP QB. Edmundson would be a great partner for an OEL or Hughes. Gavrikov same, Forbert that may be the intent. Can he keep up with all match ups? Zadorov needs a bit of sheltering, but I believe is a great piece on your team!

 

The reason OEL is bad for us though, is as you have pointed out.  Its not just that he gets paid because he has that hybrid potential. Its that we don't have support D on the correct contract. And layered on top, of course, is the monumental asset cost we paid to get him. 

 

We emptied the cupboards to get OEL, Garland & Miller.   

I wouldnt say emptied the cupboards, especially since 1) Miller has lived up to and beyond the value that most 1st round picks at 20th would ever bring to a team. 2) OEL and Garland have served a purpose and are still fairly effective. Garland and Miller both had peak value after last season, that is where it really fell a part by not capitalizing on their value. Plus we just paid a 2nd to move on from Dickinson who was tied for 2nd on the team last season in rush attempts, with much less games played than everyone else, meaning he was getting tons of chances, just snake bitten. For 2.65mil for 2 more years that was a brutal overpayment to dump him off in sh*tcago. He’s doing fairly well there. Only on the ice for 31 goals against at even strength playing on a lottery team….

We still have prospects who are doing well in their respective leagues, so no, the cupboards are not empty. 

[AnthonyG]

11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We are 1-5 in our last 5 games.  It's great that BO keeps pumping out his individual stats.  Those goals that he is scoring however are not helping us to win many games.  Players are cheating defensively in order to pad their stats.  There is no defensive structure at all on this team and last night's game proved that.  BO can score 100 goals this year and we will still miss the playoffs.  

Comparing the “structure” this season to last year….. its pretty clear the impact Shaw had on last season. Guys were far more responsible and there was much less chaos in our own zone. This year it feels like every game we are running around in our own zone like chickens with our heads chopped off.

[grandmaster]

Was listening to some 650 talk a few min ago and they talked about the Bruins (as I spit on the floor).

 

They said they basically kept the same roster but one big addition. A grade A defender was added and made the biggest difference. 
 

Why didn’t our management address this team’s biggest weakness? It makes me angry when I think about it. 

 

 

[grandmaster]

12 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Comparing the “structure” this season to last year….. its pretty clear the impact Shaw had on last season. Guys were far more responsible and there was much less chaos in our own zone. This year it feels like every game we are running around in our own zone like chickens with our heads chopped off.

It’s really bad. The only saving grace is that this is a deep draft and we have a small chance for Bedard. 

[bad alice french]

It's time some blame gets shifted towards management for not addressing our goaltending tandem. Rolling the bones on Martin was another huge misstep. Penny pinching at its best.

 

People are so tentative with regards to blaming the goaltending but the truth is that from Demko on down, it's been our weakest position all year long. Goalies are the real MVP's on any championship calibre team and we haven't had a sniff at top end goaltending all year long. Look to Winnipeg for what a great goalie does for your team. Not just statistically but also with regards to the intangibles and the confidence that a good goalie instills in your team. This isn't an indictment on Delia and Martin whatsoever. These guys are fringe NHL'ers at best and have been thrown to the wolves. PA and JR should have known this and never addressed the worst case scenario heading into the season, even after Demko's off season surgery.

 

Everyone's piling on the team and forgetting the most obvious roster shortcoming of all shortcomings: our top ten calibre starter is having a terrible season and our backups aren't bonafide NHL players. This season is a write off. Management knows it. Ownership knows it. Nobody is coming to save the day for the team. Even the coaching staff are sitting ducks. This team will look quite different next year.  Enjoy the show and let's hope for another good prospect/draft pick or two over the coming off season.

[Elias Pettersson]

20 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Yes- but missing the play offs is a team responsibility- not at the feet of any one player- especially one of the few players that is actually having a good year.

Really on this entire roster who has had a good year?

E.P.

Bo 

Schenn

Mik

Kuz

and

Burroughs?

 

6 out of 21 dressed isn't very good.

Yes that is right.  Winning is a team responsibility.  So we need to put a winning culture in place with players who won't cheat defensively and who will agree to play a defensive structure that will allow us to win games.  Most of the players on this team don't qualify for that.  Out of all of the forwards we have only Petey and Mikheyev can play a really good 200' game.  Pearson isn't bad either.  And Lazar.  That's about it.  Everyone else cheats defensively.  BO isn't really a part of the problem, however he isn't really part of the solution either.  I'd rather replace hm, Miller and the rest of the forwards with 200' players who can follow a defensive structure and execute it.  

[OldFaithfulCap]

I've hit my blah point. I don't care about speculating anymore or arguing stuff.

 

This team needs to lose like it hasn't for a long time. It needs to trade whatever it can except EP. Will watch the games and commiserate here but i just hope changes can get made.

 

I wish i was in van, tickets are probably cheaper, but instead i'll be up until 1:30am to watch most of these pointless games. I don't get mad anymore, i just get sad.

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by OldFaithfulCap
sad