Rangers’ Pride Night goes sideways and Chicago Blackhawks refuse to wear pride jerseys

[Sharpshooter]

2 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

 

my cousin is openly lesbian and I support her beliefs. she even played ice hockey on guess what? an all lesbian team! this was 1995-1997.

 

How nice were her teammates to me and my father who picked her off and dropped her off and watched her games and practices?

 

No discrimination there on our sexual orientation, right?

 

I was also only a boy and not yet a teenager, what did I ever do to them other then be born a male?

 

 

How did the ‘Bad News Lesbian Bears’ discriminate against you? 
 

One bad personal experience as a boy is the basis of your entire adult view on sexual orientation inclusivity? 
 

You’re an adult now.

 

Time to ‘put childish things(experiences) away’. 

 

[-DLC-]

14 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

 

I was also only a boy and not yet a teenager, what did I ever do to them other then be born a male?

 

 

Also, can you be more specific in how they mistreated you? As a boy?

[Sharpshooter]

5 minutes ago, greenbean30 said:

I know that they auction them off, but I am sure that they take a cut of the proceeds so that they don't lose any money. As well they do sell the jersey's in the store for $750(this is the Canucks, don't know about any other team), so it's definitely about making money.

 

I also addressed the proceeds topic in my post, there are other ways to donate to those charities that the team could easily do and that would end up being a lot more money towards those charities, but it would take out of their profit.

What is the basis for your confidence of teams auctioning player worn items,

for charity, but keeping a cut of those donations to cover the expense of the sweater? 

[ABNuck]

31 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

You have absolutely no clue what the KKK is, do you?  Did you forget what their symbols represent?  You think that's just free speech?  What exactly do you think their beliefs are?  You aren't protecting the weak from evil.  You're protecting the haters.  You literally picked one of the worst, most openly violent, racist organizations in modern history and said their rights to "free speech" should be protected and that we should all just get along.  Tell a black person to try and get along with the KKK.  No - tell the KKK to get along with the black person.  Just try.

 

You made the comparison and made your own bed.  Now you have to lie in it.

To say I have no clue what the KKK is...well, there again is an inflammatory statement. I lived in the Southern US for a year. I lived amongst some racists and despised their attitudes and philosophy with every ounce of my being. When a KKK member expresses his opinion about anything lawful (ie/ what type of pickup truck to drive), then he is perfectly within his right to express that. For example, I drive a Ford...does that mean I hate Chevys? I openly support the Canucks (albeit difficult to do right now)...does that mean I HATE the fans of other teams? But when a member of the KKK or any other hate group expresses hateful speech of any type, then they are wrong and are subject to punishment under the law. I specifically chose that group (called hyperbole) to demonstrate my point that we cannot...CANNOT hate anyone. We condemn people for their actions and for their speech, and we can despise the things they do. But if we continually judge people based on our own belief system and condemn those whose belief system is different, then we by default become the haters, the exclusive group.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

6 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

I feel attacked because of my beliefs, Am I doing it right?

 

you just discriminated against me because yiu do but don't agree with you? 

 

identity politics dont belong in sports.

 

does sexual orientation make you a better athlete?

isnt that a little sexist?

Again, you have no interest in actually tackling this issue seriously.  Which is fine.  It's a waste of everyone's time anyways.

 

For the record, the colour barrier in baseball had no written rules in the 1940s.  Nothing stated black players couldn't play in the MLB.  There's also nothing written in the NHL rules that state you can't be openly gay and play in the league.  Because you don't need rules for it - they're not welcome.

[GhostsOf1994]

4 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

OK.

 

 

read the fine print.

 

transgender

 

male to female mma fighter fallon fox, how is that not assault? go watch and let me know.

 

the female to male swimmer who was what ranked 95 out of boys transitions to female and won all the races and got scholarships of biological females that trained most of their lifes to get pushed to the side for( identity politics)

 

Please ask Lebron James to transition to female so he can go smash every single wnba ever, thats fair right?

 

no discrimination against biological females, right?

[4petesake]

Just now, GhostsOf1994 said:

read the fine print.

 

transgender

 

male to female mma fighter fallon fox, how is that not assault? go watch and let me know.

 

the female to male swimmer who was what ranked 95 out of boys transitions to female and won all the races and got scholarships of biological females that trained most of their lifes to get pushed to the side for( identity politics)

 

Please ask Lebron James to transition to female so he can go smash every single wnba ever, thats fair right?

 

no discrimination against biological females, right?

No fine print reading necessary. You asked someone to show you a law. These are states that have laws prohibiting transgender (the ‘t’ in lgbtq) from participating. Now you want to debate the law. 

[Sharpshooter]

3 minutes ago, ABNuck said:

To say I have no clue what the KKK is...well, there again is an inflammatory statement. I lived in the Southern US for a year. I lived amongst some racists and despised their attitudes and philosophy with every ounce of my being. When a KKK member expresses his opinion about anything lawful (ie/ what type of pickup truck to drive), then he is perfectly within his right to express that. For example, I drive a Ford...does that mean I hate Chevys? I openly support the Canucks (albeit difficult to do right now)...does that mean I HATE the fans of other teams? But when a member of the KKK or any other hate group expresses hateful speech of any type, then they are wrong and are subject to punishment under the law. I specifically chose that group (called hyperbole) to demonstrate my point that we cannot...CANNOT hate anyone. We condemn people for their actions and for their speech, and we can despise the things they do. But if we continually judge people based on our own belief system and condemn those whose belief system is different, then we by default become the haters, the exclusive group.

You clearly hate the Return button and paragraphs. 

[Master Mind]

12 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

OK.

 

 

Bans that prevent someone who used to be male from playing in female sports?

 

The description stating these bans a unnecessary and harmful is disingenuous. When this is allowed, you open the door to female athletes losing opportunities, and of course risk severe injury. That can also be argued as unnecessary and harmful.

 

Tricky one as no one seems to have found a perfect solution yet that pleases everyone.

[ABNuck]

Just now, Sharpshooter said:

You clearly hate the Return button and paragraphs. 

That right there might be the best comment in this thread...well done!

[GhostsOf1994]

8 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Sounds like maybe a personal experience you had 25 years or more ago may be negatively impacting your view today.  

 

People may have been hostile back then because they had to fight just to be part of society. My two neighbours (friends..RIP Joan and Tam) were subjected to all kinds of hatred and isolation. Stigmatized. Even by their own families. 

 

They endured a lot of ugliness and, yes, some groups may have reacted based on that. Lashed back out in a defensive manner. As you appear to possibly be doing now. 

 

Be part of the solution, not the problem.

 

 

Don't think anyone should be hated for their orientation or lifestyle, Dont force your beliefs on others, sorry for your neighbors.

 

Treat others how you want to be treated, bad people come in every size shape and color.

 

My beef isn't with LGBTQ community, my beef is with NHL playing identity politics.

 

would the NHL ever let a female to male play in the NHL?

why or why not?

 

 

[4petesake]

Just now, Master Mind said:

Bans that prevent someone who used to be male from playing in female sports?

 

The description stating these bans a unnecessary and harmful is disingenuous. When this is allowed, you open the door to female athletes losing opportunities, and of course risk severe injury. That can also be argued as unnecessary and harmful.

 

Tricky one as no one seems to have found a perfect solution yet that pleases everyone.

Again…I’m not starting that debate here. The post asked someone to show them a law, as if none existed. They do.

[Sharpshooter]

Just now, GhostsOf1994 said:

Don't think anyone should be hated for their orientation or lifestyle, Dont force your beliefs on others, sorry for your neighbors.

 

Treat others how you want to be treated, bad people come in every size shape and color.

 

My beef isn't with LGBTQ community, my beef is with NHL playing identity politics.

 

would the NHL ever let a female to male play in the NHL?

why or why not?

 

 

There’s already been a female player in the NHL. 
 

What difference would it make for a transitioned female to play? 

[Master Mind]

2 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

Again…I’m not starting that debate here. The post asked someone to show them a law, as if none existed. They do.

I don't that's what he was going for, but could be wrong. There's rationale behind that decision (whether you agree with it or not) instead of it simply being there as unnecessary discrimination.

[ABNuck]

I think I need to take a step back and maybe listen to someone from the LGBT+ community about what exactly "Gay Pride" means. I hope that it means that everyone equally should be included, but I also feel, and maybe this is where my argument stems from, that some of the more militant or active members of the group seem to want to force their opinion onto everyone else and that any who disagree with them are in the wrong. Can someone please clarify for me exactly what "Gay Pride" is?

[GhostsOf1994]

6 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Again, you have no interest in actually tackling this issue seriously.  Which is fine.  It's a waste of everyone's time anyways.

 

For the record, the colour barrier in baseball had no written rules in the 1940s.  Nothing stated black players couldn't play in the MLB.  There's also nothing written in the NHL rules that state you can't be openly gay and play in the league.  Because you don't need rules for it - they're not welcome.

So, your argument is that there is no rule written so there must an unwritten rule.

 

racism and being black is the same as lgbtq? 

 

you have zero will to check facts.

4 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

No fine print reading necessary. You asked someone to show you a law. These are states that have laws prohibiting transgender (the ‘t’ in lgbtq) from participating. Now you want to debate the law. 

Transgender female to male NHLer?

Transgender female to male NBA player?

transgender male to female mma fighter?

transgender male to female swimmer?

 

do you know why this is?

 

because when a biological man competes against a biological female it is almost always an unfair advantage to the biological male.

 

Men for the majority of the population are bigger, weigh more and usually stronger. 

 

How is that non discriminatory and inclusive of biological females?

 

The greatest female tennis player, ever.

 

https://youtu.be/ucRGB2fERus

[-DLC-]

8 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

Dont force your beliefs on others

It's not really forcing beliefs...it's more moving toward acceptance of others who simply want to live their lives in peace. Your beliefs shouldn't stand in the way of that.  Right now that's the issue. Putting on a shirt to signify that everyone's beliefs are accepted...not just the ones you hold. This world belongs to all of us and "belief" systems aren't all the same. So if players don't want to put on a shirt to show acceptance it's their personal deal but they're part of a team/organization that does believe this is the way. So perhaps that's a personal choice to make...is this occupation/organization right for me? One that pays me to "represent" a team and wear their jersey. There is swearing, fighting, spitting, etc. in hockey....is this all accepted? I am unfamiliar with this system of beliefs? For I find, personally, many pick and choose.

 

Again...what if an ad on a jersey suddenly is added? Are they going to stop wearing that jersey then?  

[-DLC-]

24 minutes ago, ABNuck said:

I think I need to take a step back and maybe listen to someone from the LGBT+ community about what exactly "Gay Pride" means. I hope that it means that everyone equally should be included, but I also feel, and maybe this is where my argument stems from, that some of the more militant or active members of the group seem to want to force their opinion onto everyone else and that any who disagree with them are in the wrong. Can someone please clarify for me exactly what "Gay Pride" is?

I can't but what I can say is: there are bad apples in EVERY group. Extremists and people who are perhaps damaged by their own personal history and can become defensive. It happens. Especially people suddenly given a voice who've been trampled on, shamed and beat down throughout their lives. Raw and emotional stuff can pour out. They've been hurt and put up a wall of protection.

 

For those I know (I have two gay cousins, they're awesome)...gay pride is being able to openly declare you're gay with pride (and, most of all, dignity). Without shame and stigmatization. To be able to fly your flag and have others accept and again, most importantly/hopefully, embrace you as a human being worthy of all the love and kindness that other human beings are shown.

[ABNuck]

1 minute ago, -DLC- said:

I can't but what I can say is: there are bad apples in EVERY group. Extremists and people who are perhaps damaged by their own personal history and can become defensive.

 

For those I know (I have two gay cousins, they're awesome)...gay pride is being able to openly declare you're gay with pride (and, most of all, dignity). Without shame and stigmatization. To be able to fly your flag and have others accept and again, most importantly/hopefully, embrace you as a human being worthy of all the love and kindness that other human beings are shown.

Thanks Deb...I think that's what I gathered from it too, especially the part about "with dignity".

[the harry]

The opposite of do well is mean well...