tan Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 To Sharks NYI's 1st rounder, Myers, plugger+ To Canucks Karlsson 4 Mil salary retenained. Karlsson is still a beast for the next 4 years. top R defenceman. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Can they take OEL instead...pleaseeeeeee! Myers is only here for another year...........and easier to move after his bonus is paid out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highstickin Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 22 minutes ago, tan said: To Sharks NYI's 1st rounder, Myers, plugger+ To Canucks Karlsson 4 Mil salary retenained. Karlsson is still a beast for the next 4 years. top R defenceman. Benning is that you? I hope management learned something from the OEL trade (that they should never do it again) but you basically just recreated it. Take an underperforming asset whose contract will expire soon, package it with a good draft pick or prospect and trade it for an aging player that likely won't live up to their contract for the duration and is virtually untradeable (NMC). The bottom line is this team is not ready to compete and adding Karlsson at the expense of youth is not good for us or him. Karlsson seems to have found his old abilities and is having a great season but he is also a career -77 and not necessarily the defensive D man we are looking for right now. Couldn't imagine this team with a 32 yr old OEL making 7.25M and a 33 yr old Karlsson making 7.5M. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 So, although I don't think the Canucks are going to offer up anything like a 1st for Karlsson, I do believe that the Sharks want to move Karlsson and Karlsson has a full NMC, so he controls the destination. I think my suggestion before on another thread was more around: To Sharks: Boeser Rathbone 2023 2nd round pick 2024 3rd round pick 2025 4th round pick To Vancouver: Karlsson 3 Million Retained 2023 7th round pick (the one we gave to Arizona) NOW, the ONLY way that this would happen from San Jose's side would be Karlsson saying to San Jose, yes, you can trade me, but ONLY to Vancouver! With Mikheyev down for the season, we have the cap space to make this work with LTIR NOW, the ONLY way this happens from Vancouver's side is, we have a plan in place to move Myers either at the deadline or after his 5 million signing bonus is paid (does anyone know if that can be paid early?) Also, I believe that we would need to at the very least, also have a deal in place to move either Garland or Miller. PLEASE NOTE! I'm not suggesting that we SHOULD do this, I'm just suggesting a structure that might work for both parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: So, although I don't think the Canucks are going to offer up anything like a 1st for Karlsson, I do believe that the Sharks want to move Karlsson and Karlsson has a full NMC, so he controls the destination. I think my suggestion before on another thread was more around: To Sharks: Boeser Rathbone 2023 2nd round pick 2024 3rd round pick 2025 4th round pick To Vancouver: Karlsson 3 Million Retained 2023 7th round pick (the one we gave to Arizona) NOW, the ONLY way that this would happen from San Jose's side would be Karlsson saying to San Jose, yes, you can trade me, but ONLY to Vancouver! With Mikheyev down for the season, we have the cap space to make this work with LTIR NOW, the ONLY way this happens from Vancouver's side is, we have a plan in place to move Myers either at the deadline or after his 5 million signing bonus is paid (does anyone know if that can be paid early?) Also, I believe that we would need to at the very least, also have a deal in place to move either Garland or Miller. PLEASE NOTE! I'm not suggesting that we SHOULD do this, I'm just suggesting a structure that might work for both parties. Seems a bit too far off from their asking price. 18% retained is ~2M so still a 9.5M cap hit. Grier trying to change their identity - he wants more grit. Not sure Boeser would fit on the kind of team he is trying to build + they seem to want more futures vs a roster player too old to be part of their rebuild. Edited February 8, 2023 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 The last thing this team needs is another overpaid defenseman in their 30s, unless someone is building a collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 12 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: So, although I don't think the Canucks are going to offer up anything like a 1st for Karlsson, I do believe that the Sharks want to move Karlsson and Karlsson has a full NMC, so he controls the destination. I think my suggestion before on another thread was more around: To Sharks: Boeser Rathbone 2023 2nd round pick 2024 3rd round pick 2025 4th round pick To Vancouver: Karlsson 3 Million Retained 2023 7th round pick (the one we gave to Arizona) NOW, the ONLY way that this would happen from San Jose's side would be Karlsson saying to San Jose, yes, you can trade me, but ONLY to Vancouver! With Mikheyev down for the season, we have the cap space to make this work with LTIR NOW, the ONLY way this happens from Vancouver's side is, we have a plan in place to move Myers either at the deadline or after his 5 million signing bonus is paid (does anyone know if that can be paid early?) Also, I believe that we would need to at the very least, also have a deal in place to move either Garland or Miller. PLEASE NOTE! I'm not suggesting that we SHOULD do this, I'm just suggesting a structure that might work for both parties. I don't think SJ would waste time on an offer that has no 1st rd picks. They want at least two, plus prospects. It's a high asking price, but it's clear they want a lot. Vancouver just doesn't have a prospect pool to trade away - we really only have draft picks. Fans would riot if we traded any more of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 That Karlsson contract is horrible, even if he is having a "2021/22 Miller" type season. The guy is almost a senior and he has 4 more seasons. Karlsson will be going to a contender, not coming to VAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 24 minutes ago, mll said: Seems a bit too far off from their asking price. 18% retained is ~2M so still a 9.5M cap hit. Grier trying to change their identity - he wants more grit. Not sure Boeser would fit on the kind of team he is trying to build + they seem to want more futures vs a roster player too old to be part of their rebuild. Yes, which is why I said, only way it would happen would be that Karlsson tells San Jose that Vancouver is the only place he would be willing to waive for. Canucks aren't going to offer 3 first rounders, but I think they might be willing to do what I suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 15 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said: I don't think SJ would waste time on an offer that has no 1st rd picks. They want at least two, plus prospects. It's a high asking price, but it's clear they want a lot. Vancouver just doesn't have a prospect pool to trade away - we really only have draft picks. Fans would riot if we traded any more of those. As I said, there's really only one way it would happen, and that would be based on Karlsson giving them only one team to negotiate with, and that's Vancouver. I don't see this happening either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 7 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: As I said, there's really only one way it would happen, and that would be based on Karlsson giving them only one team to negotiate with, and that's Vancouver. I don't see this happening either. Good point. He gets nothing out of jumping into this tire fire of a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 That first may end up being Reinbacher who could be a stud RD in as little as 2 years so would rather keep it. I'd give up a lot to try and turn OEL into Karlsson at 50% retained, but not that much. I'd give them a 2nd +/- Rathbone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcam Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 hour ago, tan said: To Sharks NYI's 1st rounder, Myers, plugger+ To Canucks Karlsson 4 Mil salary retenained. Karlsson is still a beast for the next 4 years. top R defenceman. OMG worst trade idea? Karlsson will not get Canucks into playoffs? Another old D man injury prone look at previous 4 yrs.. Canucks want players under 27 and they want 1st round draft picks. Deal never happens..Karlsson will want to go to a contender also.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highstickin Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 55 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: As I said, there's really only one way it would happen, and that would be based on Karlsson giving them only one team to negotiate with, and that's Vancouver. I don't see this happening either. Even if Karlsson says he only wants to go to Van, Van cannot make this trade work unless somehow we were sending OEL back at full rate. The long term impact of having: Hughes - 7.85M OEL - 7.26M Karlsson - 9.5M Total - 24.61M would absolutely destroy Vancouver's chances of competing. Just these three contracts alone would put Vancouver in the top 1/3 for most expensive D corps and that doesn't include the other 4 Dmen to round out the group. Lets assume we need to add 5M more for the other 4 D, that makes us the most expensive D group and still one of the worst defensively. Spending this much on the D right now could also seriously hurt our offensive group. Assuming Petey stays and signs a 10M contract (that would be lowest price, I'm guessing) in 2024-25, that would leave just 28M (assuming cap goes up 1M per season between now and then) to sign a back up goalie, 5 defensemen and 7 forwards. Therefore, even if Karlsson says its Van or nothing, Van needs to say its nothing. I will take 1 more year of Meyers over 4 years of the above Cap hell and a crappy D group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 31 minutes ago, Highstickin said: Even if Karlsson says he only wants to go to Van, Van cannot make this trade work unless somehow we were sending OEL back at full rate. The long term impact of having: Hughes - 7.85M OEL - 7.26M Karlsson - 9.5M Total - 24.61M would absolutely destroy Vancouver's chances of competing. Just these three contracts alone would put Vancouver in the top 1/3 for most expensive D corps and that doesn't include the other 4 Dmen to round out the group. Lets assume we need to add 5M more for the other 4 D, that makes us the most expensive D group and still one of the worst defensively. Spending this much on the D right now could also seriously hurt our offensive group. Assuming Petey stays and signs a 10M contract (that would be lowest price, I'm guessing) in 2024-25, that would leave just 28M (assuming cap goes up 1M per season between now and then) to sign a back up goalie, 5 defensemen and 7 forwards. Therefore, even if Karlsson says its Van or nothing, Van needs to say its nothing. I will take 1 more year of Meyers over 4 years of the above Cap hell and a crappy D group. The assumption is, that OEL would be leaving no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highstickin Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 7 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: The assumption is, that OEL would be leaving no matter what. That is a massive assumption. OEL has a NMC and it's pretty well documented that he really only waived it to come to Van. A lot of things would have to fall into place for your assumption to happen. OEL has to want out, we have to find someone to take on his entire contract, and at a reasonable price. Even if all of that happened what is the result? An older defenseman at a higher cap hit that still isn't great defensively. So what did we gain and how does this move get us closer to the vision of management? - Get faster (not really) - Get younger (nope) - Remove Cap (nope) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) If OEL and Beauvillier aren't going back I don't want it to happen... and SJ wouldn't want to take on OEL when Karlsson's better at this point and they'd want futures (as mentioned). Any sweeteners we'd have to add to OEL (likely 1st(s)) would make it not worth it to trade for EK65, especially when we aren't a contender (nor should we try to be) and 65's offense would help any team with winning aspirations. If OEL needs sweeteners to move with retention for us, I'd rather just let his contract run out (or at least run until it has a low cap penalty then buy it out, and have Pearson/ Myers' contracts expired/ traded, and Boeser/ Garland/ Miller have been shipped out for futures -- perhaps at that point OEL would actively ask out when the team sucks?). Edited February 8, 2023 by Phil_314 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) I love Karlsson as a player but he doesn't fit where we're at as an organization. Plus, why would he waive to come to Vancouver? If he's not going to win anything why not stay down in California with the beaches, weather, and the like. Outside of a jersey he's largely anonymous down there, and even in a jersey most folks probably wouldn't know who he was, he'd never get that here. It'd be stepping into an even bigger fishbowl than the one he lived in while in Ottawa. If he's moved it'll almost certainly be a playoff team or a contender, likely with the Sharks retaining cap. Edited February 8, 2023 by Coconuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Just now, Highstickin said: That is a massive assumption. OEL has a NMC and it's pretty well documented that he really only waived it to come to Van. A lot of things would have to fall into place for your assumption to happen. OEL has to want out, we have to find someone to take on his entire contract, and at a reasonable price. Even if all of that happened what is the result? An older defenseman at a higher cap hit that still isn't great defensively. So what did we gain and how does this move get us closer to the vision of management? - Get faster (not really) - Get younger (nope) - Remove Cap (nope) It's absolutely a massive assumption, it's what we do here, we speculate, WILDLY I think that OEL will be moved or bought out this summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philtbc829 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 6 hours ago, tan said: To Sharks NYI's 1st rounder, Myers, plugger+ To Canucks Karlsson 4 Mil salary retenained. Karlsson is still a beast for the next 4 years. top R defenceman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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