[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at New York Islanders | Feb. 09, 2023

[HorvatToBaertschi]

8 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said:

If you don't feel good for boeser after that game something is wrong wit chu! 35p in 45g is good 

I don't care about his points, i care about his involvement. When he's on, he's a great player for us. I'm glad we saw a glimpse of old Boeser last night!

[Mustard Tiger]

9 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

I don't care about his points, i care about his involvement. When he's on, he's a great player for us. I'm glad we saw a glimpse of old Boeser last night!

I care his points because we won't trade 6.65m unless he's producing lol. But yes I agree with what you said as well

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Tanking has gotten us nowhere, we finished 2nd last in 2016 and dropped 3 spots. We have the 2nd worst lottery track record out of 32 NHL teams. It doesn't work for us.

 

In those years you're complaining about, we got Pettersson, Hughes, Hoglander and Podkolzin. The year we tanked we got Juolevi. 

This logic is stiflingly bad based on one failed draft pick. If you get a flat tire one day at work does it mean you never drive to work again? You're going to base your decision based on how lucky we've been in the draft past history? Well that's mind boggling. Clearly you don't understand the complexity of the issues here but top 5 draft picks are a huge boon for any team. Petterson and Hughes were most certainly tank years as well ... you obviously weren't paying any attention whatsoever and you're just saying random stuff here. In 2016 we actually tanked to 3rd last and only some bad lottery luck kept us from getting Matthews, Laine, or Dubois, we could have also drafted Tkachuk, or Sergachev, as well. You're saying you would have rather finished in 12th instead ... makes absolutely no sense.

 

Teams that suck need to concentrate on how to become better. Playing your hearts out and doing the best you can even if you lose is for kids in amateur sports learning life lessons, not professionals playing in the NHL. I don't know how to break it you but top 5 picks are way better than 12-15. They can change your franchise for the better in an instant.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[rekker]

Still buzzing. What a great night and the reason why I love this game. 

 

 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

23 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

This logic is stiflingly bad based on one failed draft pick. If you get a flat tire one day at work does it mean you never drive to work again? You're going to base your decision based on how lucky we've been in the draft past history? Well that's mind boggling. Clearly you don't understand the complexity of the issues here but top 5 draft picks are a huge boon for any team. Petterson and Hughes were most certainly tank years as well ... you obviously weren't paying any attention whatsoever and you're just saying random stuff here. In 2016 we actually tanked to 3rd last and only some bad lottery luck kept us from getting Matthews, Laine, or Dubois, we could have also drafted Tkachuk, or Sergachev, as well. You're saying you would have rather finished in 12th instead ... makes absolutely no sense.

 

Teams that suck need to concentrate on how to become better. Playing your hearts out and doing the best you can even if you lose is for kids in amateur sports learning life lessons, not professionals playing in the NHL. I don't know how to break it you but top 5 picks are way better than 12-15. They can change your franchise for the better in an instant.

I’m saying that no matter how much you or anybody else whines, our players are gonna play and play to win. You can cry about it or just enjoy the ride and watch where the chips fall. You can tank as much as you want maybe Bedard goes to the team that was picking 11th. 

Purposely losing is risking getting rid of the most talented player that’s ever donned the Canucks jersey, and the greatest dman in franchise history. You want to roll the dice on that, i don’t. 

 

we have the luxury of knowing that no matter where we pick, we’re getting a solid piece because this draft is ridiculously deep, and we might even have 2 picks in the top 15. We’re doing fine. 

[ToTellTheTruth]

 

They won!!!

They still had to score 5 or more goals, so not much different

Except

It was a back to back game and they didn't sag in the third period.

 

But overall it doesn't change much except more players look good for their trade auditions

 

1 hour ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Tanking has gotten us nowhere, we finished 2nd last in 2016 and dropped 3 spots. We have the 2nd worst lottery track record out of 32 NHL teams. It doesn't work for us.

 

In those years you're complaining about, we got Pettersson, Hughes, Hoglander and Podkolzin. The year we tanked we got Juolevi. 

Problem was they weren't

"A rebuild would not be fair to the Sedins"

Don't take this too personally but that is a very naïve statement. Every team tanks. They all know where the superstars come from. Tanking is so evident, just look at the standings over the years. It was so prevalent that new draft rules were brought in. 

 

Your mixing up a perineal bottom feeder with a team that drops dramatically, tanks and starts winning in short order.

 

Where did all the super stars in the league come from? Why did some teams trade bunch of players and then drop in the standings? "To see what is in the system", "a salary dump", "to change direction", "trying to get a better draft spot" and then the outright team letters.

 

Top five picks are almost all winners, almost. But to have two failures in the top 6 by one GM is not heard of or been done before.

[HorvatToBaertschi]

Just now, ToTellTheTruth said:

 

They won!!!

They still had to score 5 or more goals, so not much different

Except

It was a back to back game and they didn't sag in the third period.

 

But overall it doesn't change much except more players look good for their trade auditions

 

Problem was they weren't

"A rebuild would not be fair to the Sedins"

Don't take this too personally but that is a very naïve statement. Every team tanks. They all know where the superstars come from. Tanking is so evident, just look at the standings over the years. It was so prevalent that new draft rules were brought in. 

 

Your mixing up a perineal bottom feeder with a team that drops dramatically, tanks and starts winning in short order.

 

Where did all the super stars in the league come from? Why did some teams trade bunch of players and then drop in the standings? "To see what is in the system", "a salary dump", "to change direction", "trying to get a better draft spot" and then the outright team letters.

 

Top five picks are almost all winners, almost. But to have two failures in the top 6 by one GM is not heard of or been done before.

New York and New Jersey were both gifted FA’s and Lotto wins. Detroit and Vancouver have been god awful, dropped every draft and have no lotto picks to show for it. It’s not a viable option anymore. We have our core, we need to support it, not take over. 

[Odd.]

Only 6 points separates us from 26th to 30th. It’s not like we’re chasing a playoff spot, I don’t expect it to be hard to drop a couple of spots.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Odd.

[Ghostsof1915]

The whole league is tight in points. There is a 1 point difference between 13-19. I don't think we can possibly fall enough to get to 31-32.

But possibly 30th would be as low as we'd get. Knowing Canuck luck, we will finish 25th or 24th.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[lmm]

14 hours ago, CanuckFan1123 said:

Imagine being upset that we won… I understand Bedard is a generational talent but literally cheering against your team to win is so ignorant. Especially when the chances of getting Bedard are slim regardless where we finish. Get team tank out of here. Just sit back and enjoy the ride and whatever happens, happens. 
 

Miller killed it. 
Brock had his best game of the year. 
Petey and Hughes played well. 
 

Be proud of your team. 

 ahahah

this is so ironic

 

First let me say that I enjoyed the game last night, even enjoyed the win

even though I was cheering for  a loss, as I always do these days

but you know every team wins some games sometimes, so why not enjoy them too

I really enjoyed the interview with Bo Horvat after the game, "...dat da dat da da, learn from it" it was like old times!

I have been on team tank for about 6 years

before that I was on team rebuild

and way back about 2012 I was on team retool

during that time I have watched in awe as one management group or another has made a series of stupid, ( one might say ignorant ) moves (one might say mistakes or even gaffs) that have delayed this teams reconstruction and rise to win on a consistent basis

as any long suffering Canuck fan knows, it will only take a 3 game win streak, or a Bump like Bruce gave us last year, and the incompetent management will be selling draft picks to TRY for a wild card spot- that is not what we need

So for you to be calling other fans Ignorant is ironic and quite frankly ignorant

Also your mis-use of the term literally is literally ignorant

 

thanks for the laugh 

[lmm]

4 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

4 goalies in a row drafted after Thatcher D in 2014

Too bad Thatchy isn't in net to play against them

has there ever been a better year for drafting goalies?

Edited February 10, 2023 by lmm

[Ghostsof1915]

Cheering for a better draft position when there's a generational player that could have a massive impact on this franchise sounds more like someone cares about the team long term, than cheering for wins. The Canucks are 17 points from a wild card spot.

 

We don't wan't the players to give up. But allowing almost 4 goals a game this season as an average, is a massive flaw that needs to be corrected.

And it won't be corrected by tweaking, or Demko playing to bubble Demko level. This team needs a massive re-vamp.

 

I don't think it's hard to understand you can love a team, and want what's best for them if it means they have to bottom out for a year or two.

[lmm]

52 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

New York and New Jersey were both gifted FA’s and Lotto wins. Detroit and Vancouver have been god awful, dropped every draft and have no lotto picks to show for it. It’s not a viable option anymore. We have our core, we need to support it, not take over. 

how can you say that?

in 50 + years this team has never won the cup either

ergo (I love that word, it makes me sound wordy and lawyerish)

trying to win a cup is not a viable option either

If we have a core, then we don't need a whole core (that sounds oxymoronic) then 2 great pieces might be enough to send us over the top

[Ghostsof1915]

Politician's logic:

All cats have four legs.

My dog has four legs.

Therefore my dog is a cat.

 

Or:

We must do something.

This is something.

Therefore we must do it.

[ToTellTheTruth]

1 hour ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

New York and New Jersey were both gifted FA’s and Lotto wins. Detroit and Vancouver have been god awful, dropped every draft and have no lotto picks to show for it. It’s not a viable option anymore. We have our core, we need to support it, not take over. 

They changed the draft rules again, only 10 teams in on the #1 so that makes finishing DFL a 25% chance at first, 2nd and 3rd last also gets a big boost.

 

Only the top two spots are lottery so a team cannot fall more than 2 spots and #4 or 5 this year can/will be star players and the #34 a good NHL player, imagine if that Russian kid fell to 34 and the Canucks were there, in 2025/26 he comes to the NHL as a finished player, what a boost to any team. Kuzmenko X 3 or at least a Kaprizov. He could because of where he is and the need from winning teams now.

 

Buffalo and Montreal cannot win the lottery for first overall either this year either, no team can win first overall more than once within 5 years.

 

So the odds are even better. 

 

No lotto picks, okay their number is due. Evidently it isn't just the position but the player picked as well.

 

IMO the whole draft lottery has been flawed from the start, it should have been an average standings of a set number of years with the limitation on teams that are in the lottery with the no #1 over a set number of years. IMO that would make tanking a four or five year effort instead of a two or three month attempt for a better chance.

 

The Canucks have been god awful but by accident. Imagine if they decided to tank for McD or Mathews? Or drafted any of the top ten instead of those #5 and #6 selected players that failed. That is part of this core. Missing core.

 

In THIS deep draft the closer to the bottom regardless of getting the number one at all, the 34th player taken could be equal to last years 15th. 

Get a few more this draft could be the foundation of years of success with cap controlled contracts allowing for sensible signings and trades.

 

Ottawa took 3 years and they are very close to being in and far ahead of the Canucks, Buffalo essentially started another rebuild 2 years ago, NJD are in year three. This could be year one for the Canucks IF they can move out enough salary and get more draft picks for this year and the 2025 draft class.

 

So Miller, Garland, Myer, OEL are your core? Because they have been for the last few years

 

As the title of your avatar states that core is gone you may have been hanging on too long 

 

This conversation has gone way beyond the thread intended content.

Edited February 10, 2023 by ToTellTheTruth

[HorvatToBaertschi]

7 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

They changed the draft rules again, only 10 teams in on the #1 so that makes finishing DFL a 25% chance at first, 2nd and 3rd last also gets a big boost.

 

Only the top two spots are lottery so a team cannot fall more than 2 spots and #4 or 5 this year can/will be star players and the #34 a good NHL player, imagine if that Russian kid fell to 34 and the Canucks were there, in 2025/26 he comes to the NHL as a finished player, what a boost to any team. Kuzmenko X 3 or at least a Kaprizov. He could because of where he is and the need from winning teams now.

 

Buffalo and Montreal cannot win the lottery for first overall either this year either, no team can win first overall within 5 years.

 

So the odds are even better. 

 

No lotto picks, okay their number is due. Evidently it isn't just the position but the player picked as well.

 

IMO the whole draft lottery has been flawed from the start, it should have been an average standings of a set number of years with the limitation on teams that are in the lottery with the no #1 over a set number of years. IMO that would make tanking a four or five year effort instead of a two or three month attempt for a better chance.

 

The Canucks have been god awful but by accident. Imagine if they decided to tank for McD or Mathews? Or drafted any of the top ten instead of those #5 and #6 selected players that failed. That is part of this core. Missing core.

 

In THIS deep draft the closer to the bottom regardless of getting the number one at all, the 34th player taken could be equal to last years 15th. 

Get a few more this draft could be the foundation of years of success with cap controlled contracts allowing for sensible signings and trades.

 

Ottawa took 3 years and they are very close to being in and far ahead of the Canucks, Buffalo essentially started another rebuild 2 years ago, NJD are in year three. This could be year one for the Canucks IF they can move out enough salary and get more draft picks for this year and the 2025 draft class.

 

So Miller, Garland, Myer, OEL are your core? Because they have been for the last few years

 

As the title of your avatar states that core is gone you may have been hanging on too long 

Listen, as someone who lives in Ottawa and knows many fans and discusses about this team a lot, that team is nowhere even remotely close to being either close or far ahead of the Canucks. Hughes would have been the highest point scorer on that team last year, and was 30+ points behind Miller. You think our defense is bad? Theirs is probably the worst in the league. We have had a catastrophic season without an NHL goalie, tons of off ice shenanigans and distractions, and we are barely behind them. They've never tanked, their owner just decided to never pay his star players accordingly and they all either walked out on the team or demanded a trade. 

 

They don't have anybody remotely close to someone of Pettersson or Hughes' ability, their defense is trash, and they have no goaltending. All they have is a 3rd OA and 4th OA pick, and Brady is quite the grab but not a gamebreaker whatsoever, while Stutzle struggles to play consistently with the physical play. Their individual stats are inflated by a coaching system that focuses solely on offense and completely leaves the defensive side of the game as an afterthought.

 

I'm sorry but I don't buy the OT kool-aid, they're a free 4 points every single year. Rant over.

Edited February 10, 2023 by HorvatToBaertschi

[ToTellTheTruth]

1 minute ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Listen, as someone who lives in Ottawa and knows many fans and discusses about this team a lot, that team is nowhere even remotely close to being either close or far ahead of the Canucks. Hughes would have been the highest point scorer on that team last year, and was 30+ points behind Miller. You think our defense is bad? Theirs is probably the worst in the league. We have had a catastrophic season without an NHL goalie, tons of off ice shenanigans and distractions, and we are barely behind them. They've never tanked, their owner just decided to never pay his star players accordingly and they all either walked out on the team or demanded a trade. 

 

They don't have anybody remotely close to someone of Pettersson or Hughes' ability, their defense is trash, and they have no goaltending. All they have is a 3rd OA and 4th OA pick, and Brady is quite the grab but not a gamebreaker whatsoever, while Stutzle struggles to play consistently with the physical play. 

 

I'm sorry but I don't buy the OT kool-aid, they're a free 4 points every single year. Rant over.

No tanks?

Then why did the NHL bring in lottery rules?

 

If you think Ottawa is having a catastrophic season what do you think of the Canucks last decade?

Edited February 10, 2023 by ToTellTheTruth

[HorvatToBaertschi]

1 minute ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

No tanks?

Then why did the NHL bring in lottery rules?

 

If you think Ottawa is having a catastrophic season what do you think of the Canucks last decade?

I said Vancouver is having a catastrophic season. The worst one in 30+ years yet the Sens are barely ahead of us, 6 years into their rebuild. 

[ToTellTheTruth]

5 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

I said Vancouver is having a catastrophic season. The worst one in 30+ years yet the Sens are barely ahead of us, 6 years into their rebuild. 

They were tanking with Stone, Duchene, Chabot, Dzingel, Anderson, Tkachuk, Ryan, Pageau, Paul, tradeing away picks for vets.... seems to me that was not a rebuild and a pretty good core to build around which apparently they were trying to do.

 

The trades for the tank didn't start until at the earliest is TDL 2018 and through summer when they traded away Duchene, Stone, Karlsson and the other 20 trades made in the 2019/20 season which were for picks and prospects. They trade for an additional 30+ picks in two years, that is what a tear down and rebuild looks like.

 

Your in Ottawa and think the current team is worse than what you had? 

 

Have to be an employee to try to spin that