McBackup Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 minute ago, RWJC said: The ppl complaining about the current status of the team are the same ones that would be complaining again as soon as year 2 of their own proposed rebuild. No it isn’t. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofvan Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 6 minutes ago, aGENT said: Yup. And I have my doubts as well. That said, just because the last guys did a poor job, doesn't mean this management group is doomed to the same failure. I have liked a lot of their depth/role/youth adds. And Hronek is better (and younger) than any D the previous regime added outside of the draft. If they can manage to keep finding "red paper clip" trades, pick up more solid Euro/college FA's etc to backfill some of the picks they keep tossing out.... who knows? Maybe they pull it off? TLDR: It's not the route I'd have chosen, but it doesn't mean it's doomed either. And really, we have little choice but to see if they can pull it off. Buckle up! This is my opinion 100%. Not exactly what I would have done but it's exactly what they said they were going to do and we can't judge them against previous managements failures. As mentioned previously, the only move I have beef with is giving up the 2nd with Dickinson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 11 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: People keep saying that, but there's no way they can know it. Hughes just said today nobody wants to stick around for a rebuild. Not that he’d have much of a choice, but still. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 21 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: He inherited his franchise players & missed on most of his high picks. They added Carle, Garrison & Filppula after missing the playoffs (the latter 2 after consecutive non-playoff years). I don't agree that we aren't close to the playoffs (or atleast can't be), despite this horrible season. I think the difference between this & Miller is that the team is in a different position now, Hughes & Pettersson weren't established & in or entering their prime like they are now. They have to improve the team around them or go into an even longer rebuild looking for their replacements. Pettersson is 24 not 19. For comparison's sake Horvat turned 24 in Pettersson's rookie year, look how that didn't align, nevermind a guy you draft now making the team in 2-3 years & being a true impact player in 4. Agree, and they've chosen the former, which has a much higher chance of delaying the latter, yet again, rather than succeeding. Anyways, I digress on this whole debate, as they've chosen what they've chosen, and I'm going to cheer for this team to make a good go of it, even though I don't have much hope for them to succeed. (Spoken like a true Canucks fan.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 13 minutes ago, MattWN. said: Would they? We're year 12 of a the retool.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 14 minutes ago, aGENT said: Yup. And I have my doubts as well. That said, just because the last guys did a poor job, doesn't mean this management group is doomed to the same failure. I have liked a lot of their depth/role/youth adds. And Hronek is better (and younger) than any D the previous regime added outside of the draft. If they can manage to keep finding "red paper clip" trades, pick up more solid Euro/college FA's etc to backfill some of the picks they keep tossing out.... who knows? Maybe they pull it off? TLDR: It's not the route I'd have chosen, but it doesn't mean it's doomed either. And really, we have little choice but to see if they can pull it off. Buckle up! This about sums up my feelings as well. Just cause it's not a rebuild doesn't mean all hope is lost. And just cause we can find positives does not mean it's what we would have done. We are all riding on the bus, we are kind of forced to try find positives. Or else we'll be spending the next 5-10 years being negative about everything. Which is a weird way to spend your time as a fan. Lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, N7Nucks said: Hronek is a fine player and he plays far more than Schenner did for us. I agree our cap situation is bad, that has nothing to do with Hronek's game or his fit. He's the first legit top 4 RHD we've had since Tanev. We are better with him than we were with Schenner. And I love and wanted to extend Schenner. We absolutely need to move Boeser and Garland. Agreed. We have waaaay too many wingers. I reckon you want 6 out of 13 forwards on your roster that can play center (to cover for injuries). That leaves 7 spots for guys that only play wing. I count 10 wingers in our system, that cannot cover center: Boeser, Garland, Kuzmenko, Beauvillier, Mikheyev, Pearson, Podkolzin, Kravtsov, Hoglander, Joshua. Need to get rid of some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 11 minutes ago, MattWN. said: There is no path to being a contender with this roster. Sustainable winning is through the draft. I don't want to mortgage the future to move bad contracts, only for this core to sputter (like it has it's entire duration) and then be left with bare prospect cupboards. Hughes, Petey, and Demko are not enough to win the stanley cup. We have way too many holes and no avenue to fill them without giving up the future. You absolutely need to score hits in the draft. But you absolutely cannot depend entirely on the draft. Even top three picks can fail. There is no foolproof way to become a contender. The biggest key imo is when you get top end talent you need to build around them as quickly as possible to maximize a window. Even then you still need to score hits in the draft. Becoming a contender depends on far more than just drafting top 3 or 5. The Oilers drafted the best player in the world 8 years ago and still aren't viewed as contenders. And they had three 1st overall picks plus a 3rd, 7th, and 10th overall the six years before landing McD, plus a 4th overall the year after. So tell me again how draft picks guarantee a quick path to contention. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 27 minutes ago, fanofvan said: Ok, how long did it take for Juolevi, Virtanen, Gaunce, Jensen, and Schroeder to become relevant? To be clear, I'm not against moving picks in every situation. It depends on the season and the quality of the draft. I'm loathe to move picks in a deep draft, especially where there is a generational talent at the top. In that circumstance, I want to hang onto picks and if the team is out of contention, then I'm interested in moving veterans for more picks. There is only one other year where I've advocated this strategy. that was in 2015. (and I argued with a lot of people on CDC then, as well) That was a year with a generational talent at the top as well, but we had signed free agents the previous year in an effort to make the playoffs.... Also worth noting in that draft: There were a least a dozen players in the first round who went on to have a significant impact in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofvan Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 8 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: Fair enough. So where do you think that puts us? Are we in a better position to move Boeser (or Miller) because were now up against the Cap, or are we in a worse position? Are we now more or less likely to finish in a Lottery spot and have a shot at Bedard? What happens after next year, when the guy we needed so badly needs a raise? Can we still afford Petey and Huggy's raises, or de we need to dump more Cap? These are all the things that concern me. I mentioned earlier in this thread, that if the Canucks can unload 2 of Boeser, OEL, and Myers, then they could make some moves to properly shore up the defence. I know that's a big if and I'd be reluctant to throw away picks just to offload the contracts or retain more than $1-$2m in cap. In addition, if somehow they pick in the 3-5 range they will have a chance to draft a player who is close to NHL ready. Eventually some of the Canucks prospects will start making the team on ELC's whether that be Klimovich, Karlsson, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Rathbone, Raty, Johansson, Lekkerimaki, Jurmo, Pettersson, and/or McDonough. I wouldn't rank our prospect pipeline as top notch by any means but it's not all doom and gloom either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 6 minutes ago, ilduce39 said: Hughes just said today nobody wants to stick around for a rebuild. Not that he’d have much of a choice, but still. Yeah. Color me shocked that an NHL player isn't excited about being a part of a rebuild..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofvan Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Just now, RUPERTKBD said: To be clear, I'm not against moving picks in every situation. It depends on the season and the quality of the draft. I'm loathe to move picks in a deep draft, especially where there is a generational talent at the top. In that circumstance, I want to hang onto picks and if the team is out of contention, then I'm interested in moving veterans for more picks. There is only one other year where I've advocated this strategy. that was in 2015. (and I argued with a lot of people on CDC then, as well) That was a year with a generational talent at the top as well, but we had signed free agents the previous year in an effort to make the playoffs.... Also worth noting in that draft: There were a least a dozen players in the first round who went on to have a significant impact in the league. The Canucks kept their pick, which hopefully falls within the range of some of that top tier talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 34 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: I agree with the sentiment, however I think you are conflating two camps here.... There is definitely the "This is how the Canucks operate, so just accept it" crowd....but there's also the "This is a great move! We're going to contend in 2-3 years" crowd. I can agree with crowd 1 and still disagree with crowd 2.... Yup we're the Detroit Lions, the Pittsburgh Pirates, the Sacramento Kings. I used to think how sad it would have been to be a Chicago Cubs fan. You could go your entire life cheering for them and never win anything. For some people it's 50+ years and counting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted March 2, 2023 Author Share Posted March 2, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanfor42 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Core: Petey Hughes Demko Solid support: Hronek Beauvilier Miller Kuz Mikhaev Bear Young roster: Podz Raty Kravtsov Aman Prospects: Lekkerimaki Hoglander Johansson Karlsson Klimovich D-Petey 2023 1st Bloom Silovs Jurmo Potential trades/buyouts : OEL Myers Boeser Garland Meh: The rest of them I am not as negative as some. I think this group gives them a chance to build and perform a retool that works. Doing a rebuild means getting rid of the core players and starting again. (Cuz the core players won't stick around for it). I don't agree with that as the best plan. This management group will prove to be better than Benning. How much better...let's see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 minute ago, fanofvan said: The Canucks kept their pick, which hopefully falls within the range of some of that top tier talent. They kept one of their picks. The "hopefully" part is what worries me. After the Horvat and Schenn trades, I liked our chances of falling to a lottery pick, especially with the talk surround Boeser and Miller.... But then we started trying to improve the team for this year and next..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said: What a feeling it must be to be up EIGHT flippin' draft picks. They added more picks than we have this year. Period. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToTellTheTruth Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 18 minutes ago, tas said: they need to try to become a competitive team in the next 2-3 years if they're keeping hughes and pettersson. draft picks won't help that. young players will. But they are not better, wasn't Horvat pretty good? Schenn and Hronek are pretty much a wash except Schenn isn't hurt. The engine driving this team is Pettersson's line, that didn't change. They have a 100 miilion dollar cap hit for next year. That restricts any trades and possibly means lots of players being moved which could cause less chemistry. They can say they are trying, Benning said the same thing, Linden said the same thing, Green said the same thing. But just the cap structure alone eliminates any improvement so far. For years it was the cap that stopped movement and now it is worse. They won't even be able to take advantage of other teams that will need to get under the cap for July1. So draft picks just became even more important than 5 million dollar players. Draft picks are potential these contract are anchors. If championing this path going forward please explain your thoughts on how? Who? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said: Draft picks. They’re draft picks. We don’t need to call them “draft capital” to make it sound all sexy and cool. Draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said: Yup we're the Detroit Lions, the Pittsburgh Pirates, the Sacramento Kings. I used to think how sad it would have been to be a Chicago Cubs fan. You could go your entire life cheering for them and never win anything. For some people it's 50+ years and counting. I'm one of those people and in my first post in this thread, I said I've seen this movie before.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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