[PGT] Dallas Stars at Vancouver Canucks | Mar. 14, 2023

[IBatch]

11 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

You have to look at it from the player's perspective too. If I'm Petey, I know I'm chasing 100 points, and a 100 point season on my resume would probably go a long ways towards netting me more on my next contract. Now all of the sudden career AHL players are eating into my ice time, and not because it gives us the best chance to win, but because it gives us a better chance to lose. That doesn't sit well with me at all if I'm him. Not only is the game being purposely sabotaged, but my season and potentially my payday is as well.

EP says the right things, same with Miller - they just want to win.   I think you're thinking about Horvat.     EP knows he's getting paid - and it doesn't matter if he doesn't play one more game this season.   He's already proven he can score at a 100 plus point pace going back to last season.     I'm sure hoping he plays every game until the end of the year.   Starting to show he's also got some durability.     11-11.5 x 8 is my prediction.   The man is getting paid and paid big time. 

[spook007]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Pointed out a few times - what happens if instead we won the Patrick/Hirshier sweepstakes?   We slipped from 3rd to 5th twice.    Would we have really gone that far off board and picked EP?  I have serious doubts.    It was already an off board pick at 5.     Heiskanen?   We'd already tried with OJ and at that time he wasn't a write off yet.   Doubt we picked him.   Makar?   Maybe.    Funny - that draft was supposed to be bunk.   No "high end franchise for sure guys"...Patrick was supposed to have the highest floor.   Hirscheir was nowhere near the top until the WJs then became a guy that would go one or two.   

 

This year we have the most hyped draft since McDavid and some folks declaring the deepest draft in forever.   I'm not buying it.    Listening to the early warnings, they are still stuck in my brain.   If the scouts are warning, covid made picking outside of the top of the draft a crapshoot - maybe we should be listening to that a little.    EPs draft is now standing up to some very good drafts a few years prior isn't it?    Makar has already won - and won big.   How many years in the league?    EP is starting to look like a future HHOFer too.  

 

Anyways - it will be interesting to re-visit how good this draft really is in 6-7 years.   No way are "late firsts like 15th overalls" and 5-10 like top 5's ... that's just silly. 

Thank our lucky stars that we didn't have to pick top 2 during EPs draft....

 

Patrick/Hirshier were supposed to be miles ahead of anyone else (seem to recall some injury issues with Patrick) and then Heiskanen.

I do believe, if Makar had been available at our pick we would have taken Makar... 

[DrJockitch]

4 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Thank our lucky stars that we didn't have to pick top 2 during EPs draft....

 

Patrick/Hirshier were supposed to be miles ahead of anyone else (seem to recall some injury issues with Patrick) and then Heiskanen.

I do believe, if Makar had been available at our pick we would have taken Makar... 

Hishier is very solid two way player.  He hasn’t been a disappointment at all.  His game allows for the deployment that Jack gets. 

‘Benning telegraphed his moves and he loved Makar and would likely have picked him second which also likely would have meant not picking Q the next year b

Take it for what it is worth, conjecture and rumours. 

[coho8888]

11 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Thank our lucky stars that we didn't have to pick top 2 during EPs draft....

 

Patrick/Hirshier were supposed to be miles ahead of anyone else (seem to recall some injury issues with Patrick) and then Heiskanen.

I do believe, if Makar had been available at our pick we would have taken Makar... 

speculation was that EP or Makar was ahead of Patrick/Hischier on the Canuck's list.

 

 

[spook007]

Just now, DrJockitch said:

Hishier is very solid two way player.  He hasn’t been a disappointment at all.  His game allows for the deployment that Jack gets. 

‘Benning telegraphed his moves and he loved Makar and would likely have picked him second which also likely would have meant not picking Q the next year b

Take it for what it is worth, conjecture and rumours. 

I'm not slagging off Hischier at all, but if I got to choose between Hischier and Petey, I'd take Petey every single time and twice on Sunday.

 

And yes, if we had had a chance, Benning would likely have taken Makar.... But who knows. Makar wasn't taken in the top two, and he wasn't expected to be taken there...

That is just it with the draft... We all look at players, we'd like to pick, but often they, while becoming good players, were far from the best available. 

[spook007]

Just now, coho8888 said:

speculation was that EP or Makar was ahead of Patrick/Hischier on the Canuck's list.

 

 

Yep.... speculation.

 

I did not see a single list at all, where Petey was a top 2 pick (don't even remember him being a top 4 pick on any lists)...

 

So, while we speculate, would they have gotten the guts to pick EP ahead of Patrick or Hischier...or maybe Makar (who was also a great pick)

[Junkyard Dog]

1 minute ago, spook007 said:

I'm not slagging off Hischier at all, but if I got to choose between Hischier and Petey, I'd take Petey every single time and twice on Sunday.

 

And yes, if we had had a chance, Benning would likely have taken Makar.... But who knows. Makar wasn't taken in the top two, and he wasn't expected to be taken there...

That is just it with the draft... We all look at players, we'd like to pick, but often they, while becoming good players, were far from the best available. 

I think each differs from each other.

 

Especially this draft. Once you get outside the top 8 probably more of a crapshoot for a bit as you mentioned. 

 

 

[coho8888]

2 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Yep.... speculation.

 

I did not see a single list at all, where Petey was a top 2 pick (don't even remember him being a top 4 pick on any lists)...

 

So, while we speculate, would they have gotten the guts to pick EP ahead of Patrick or Hischier...or maybe Makar (who was also a great pick)

Don’t know.  But like the video says, imagine the reaction if we did get the first and picked him

[spook007]

Just now, Junkyard Dog said:

I think each differs from each other.

 

Especially this draft. Once you get outside the top 8 probably more of a crapshoot for a bit as you mentioned. 

 

 

Yes JD....

 

Think we all agree, that picking top 5 (top 8 this draft) gives better odds of a superstar (generational player this year))...

 

History shows, that it is a crapshoot as anyone can fail, and some players just elevate their game to levels nobody expected,..,,

[spook007]

1 minute ago, coho8888 said:

Don’t know.  But like the video says, imagine the reaction if we did get the first and picked him

That's exactly my point. 

 

The reaction would probably/likely be even wilder than the OJ ahead of Tkachuk pick.... so would management have had the guts to gamble with a top 2 pick?

[Barnstorm]

6 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Gonna need a few…

[Junkyard Dog]

Just now, spook007 said:

Yes JD....

 

Think we all agree, that picking top 5 (top 8 this draft) gives better odds of a superstar (generational player this year))...

 

History shows, that it is a crapshoot as anyone can fail, and some players just elevate their game to levels nobody expected,..,,

I think Fantilli or Bedard would be our best player

 

Carlsson or Michkov have potential to be

 

After that guys like Benson, Smith, Sale and etc. Essentially the BPAs from 5-8ish after that probably not but maybe one of our best. 

 

 

 

 

 

I would want a top pick but the onus is on management to tank. Can't expect the players to try to lose

 

 

One thing I may have done differently would probably be wait a little longer before bringing in Tocchet. In due part since teams are gonna know how we play going into next year under Tocchet. I would try to keep my cards close a bit that way. Also I think we don't need half a year to implement systems as we are seeing now. Canucks starting playing really well with still 1/4 of games left.

 

It is what it is though, nothing is gonna change now so I am not gonna put too much flak into it.

[johngould21]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Pointed out a few times - what happens if instead we won the Patrick/Hirshier sweepstakes?   We slipped from 3rd to 5th twice.    Would we have really gone that far off board and picked EP?  I have serious doubts.    It was already an off board pick at 5.     Heiskanen?   We'd already tried with OJ and at that time he wasn't a write off yet.   Doubt we picked him.   Makar?   Maybe.    Funny - that draft was supposed to be bunk.   No "high end franchise for sure guys"...Patrick was supposed to have the highest floor.   Hirscheir was nowhere near the top until the WJs then became a guy that would go one or two.   

 

This year we have the most hyped draft since McDavid and some folks declaring the deepest draft in forever.   I'm not buying it.    Listening to the early warnings, they are still stuck in my brain.   If the scouts are warning, covid made picking outside of the top of the draft a crapshoot - maybe we should be listening to that a little.    EPs draft is now standing up to some very good drafts a few years prior isn't it?    Makar has already won - and won big.   How many years in the league?    EP is starting to look like a future HHOFer too.  

 

Anyways - it will be interesting to re-visit how good this draft really is in 6-7 years.   No way are "late firsts like 15th overalls" and 5-10 like top 5's ... that's just silly. 

Yep, all of these kids played, less games than in EP's draft year, so far the only one that sticks out head and shoulders above the rest is Bedard. The next two drafts could be a crapshoot as you say. The Canucks got really lucky with EP and Hughes, but take Podz, and see what it takes to develop kids properly with time and coaching, then see what tanking means. You never know!

[AnthonyG]

13 hours ago, EastCoastNucks said:

ok, I have to admit you are right. bottom line is no matter how good a team is, how much talent and goal scoring there is, how much defense or goaltending ability is there, Referees can still tilt the games and f**k a team over.

who do we gotta pay? is it bettrman?

Vancouver had more powerplays in that series and being up 2-0, we had 8 powerplays in game 3 which we should have sealed a 3-0 series lead… instead we allowed more short handed goals against than we score power play goals or even strength goals. Boston only had 4 PPs that game

 

we went 0/8

they went 2/4 and they scored 2 short handed goals.

 

get over it, we got out goalied and they were the healthier team end of story. 

 

 

[spook007]

18 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I think Fantilli or Bedard would be our best player

 

Carlsson or Michkov have potential to be

 

After that guys like Benson, Smith, Sale and etc. Essentially the BPAs from 5-8ish after that probably not but maybe one of our best. 

 

 

 

 

 

I would want a top pick but the onus is on management to tank. Can't expect the players to try to lose

 

 

One thing I may have done differently would probably be wait a little longer before bringing in Tocchet. In due part since teams are gonna know how we play going into next year under Tocchet. I would try to keep my cards close a bit that way. Also I think we don't need half a year to implement systems as we are seeing now. Canucks starting playing really well with still 1/4 of games left.

 

It is what it is though, nothing is gonna change now so I am not gonna put too much flak into it.

Cheers amigo, agree 100%...

Without shadow of a doubt there will be somebody that won't turn into stars, although they'll likely be HNL players...

 

And yes it is on the management to get the team to tank. Players wanna play. They play for their futures as well... 

I'm not sure, why they felt they needed to bring in Tocchet so quickly? Maybe the stars aligned or there were other suitors, or maybe he brought the team together faster than anyone had expected... (Demko and partially Silovs a big reason as well), but the tank was running nicely under Bruce and we likely wouldn't have been picking as late, as we are likely to do now.

 

Most importantly is, it is, what it is.... The management have put their eggs in the basket and this is, how they want to run, so we may as well just sit back and enjoy the show... it is good hockey being payed. Whether its play offs hockey or cup hockey remains to be seen...

[Junkyard Dog]

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

Cheers amigo, agree 100%...

Without shadow of a doubt there will be somebody that won't turn into stars, although they'll likely be HNL players...

 

And yes it is on the management to get the team to tank. Players wanna play. They play for their futures as well... 

I'm not sure, why they felt they needed to bring in Tocchet so quickly? Maybe the stars aligned or there were other suitors, or maybe he brought the team together faster than anyone had expected... (Demko and partially Silovs a big reason as well), but the tank was running nicely under Bruce and we likely wouldn't have been picking as late, as we are likely to do now.

 

Most importantly is, it is, what it is.... The management have put their eggs in the basket and this is, how they want to run, so we may as well just sit back and enjoy the show... it is good hockey being payed. Whether its play offs hockey or cup hockey remains to be seen...

I feel like bringing in Tocchett with like 20ish games 1/4 of the season left instead of halfway through would have helped with a tank and I feel like that's a good amount of games for a coach to take over. We've already played 20 so far and we look great the last quarter of those 20, in fact we're on a streak.

 

Also I feel like for next year teams are gonna be able to get a better read of how we play after 40 games we play this year than 20. That might have played a part in what happened(The horrendous start) with Boudreau who took over earlier than Tocchet. Perhaps a factor but obviously not the sole factor of why the start to this season sucked. My point is about keeping our cards close and giving teams less of a sample size when scouting and preparing for our team. 

 

We've played 20 games already and Tocchet is already talking about players buying in so 1/4 of a season is probably enough for a coach to implement systems. You also factor in training camp during the following preseason then they should for sure have enough time. 

 

But yeah it's whatever now, I hope we just win the lottery if we end up 8-11. New rules now that you only can move up 10 spots i think. So if you won the lotto at 13th overall you'd get 3rd overall max. 3 or 4 wouldn't be bad but top 2 have had "generational" tags thrown at them. 

 

 

Bedard/Fantilli would be absolutely perfect during this retool. Would be crazy. Gonna try not to cheer for losses but if they stunk a lot of the way I wouldn't be upset. Easier schedule though the rest of the way so probably not. 

 

Key thing for this team is to be able to start next year well. This and last year's first quarters have been awful. We gotta have a better Oct-Dec. That's critical.

[Seannnp]

5 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

Lol worse they could do was 3rd even if they lose the lottery for finishing last? Picking Matthew PLD or Laine doesn’t hurt? Finishing with the worst record doesn’t guarantee jack sh!t sure finishing the season with a pointless streak doesn’t mean jack sh!t for next season either. We finished the bubble season strong with a great playoff what did that do next season? Oh finish near last. Finished last season strong and then what? Sh!t the bed the next season? Finishing with the worse possible record guarantees you a high pick regardless of winning or losing the lottery. Finishing on a roll have 0 bearing on the next season. 

I would have to disagree with you here. This years improvement is markedly different and distinguishable from last year. You can save this for next year if you would like but I am confident we will comfortably be in the playoffs next season. The off season will be used to shed cap and only improve the team further. 

 

Also, no chance we ever finish with the worst record or even bottom 5 of the league with Demko, Hughes, Kuzmenko, Miller and Pettersson. A top 5 pick at the beginning of this season shouldve been a pipe dream. This team is no where near as bad as the bottom 5 of the league (CHI, ARI, ANA, CLB, SJ). How do we out tank these teams? Stop playing Petey who is trying to set himself up for a pay day? Rest Demko who has a chip on his shoulder and something to prove after missing most of the season? Ask our AHL callups to take it easier whilst they play for a spot on next years team? 

 

I really dont understand how anyone/any fan can expect the players/coaching staff to lose intentionally or give themselves the worst chance possible at losing these games. It makes as little sense as the team going on a winning streak and "winning pointless games" (theoretically, of course!)

[Seannnp]

5 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

Lol worse they could do was 3rd even if they lose the lottery for finishing last? Picking Matthew PLD or Laine doesn’t hurt? Finishing with the worst record doesn’t guarantee jack sh!t sure finishing the season with a pointless streak doesn’t mean jack sh!t for next season either. We finished the bubble season strong with a great playoff what did that do next season? Oh finish near last. Finished last season strong and then what? Sh!t the bed the next season? Finishing with the worse possible record guarantees you a high pick regardless of winning or losing the lottery. Finishing on a roll have 0 bearing on the next season. 

What if we had drafted Patrick Nolan or Nico Hischier that year because we were last or dead last, etc. Think Jim Benning had the foresight to reach for Makar or Pettersson that year with Nolan and Hischier the clear cut favorites with the 1st or 2nd OA? As I said, its all a crapshoot. 

 

Almost every year that we have drafted in the top 10, we have lost out on amazing talent by dropping in the draft. However, if we hadnt dropped or had drafted top 3 in any of those drafts, Petey and Hughes likely wouldnt be here. 

 

Finishing in the bottom 10 still gives us a chance at a top 3. Maybe this is finally the year. If not, move on and draft where you draft. We will still get a great player in the top 10-12 and we will continue to build around our core. 

[spook007]

22 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I feel like bringing in Tocchett with like 20ish games 1/4 of the season left instead of halfway through would have helped with a tank and I feel like that's a good amount of games for a coach to take over. We've already played 20 so far and we look great the last quarter of those 20, in fact we're on a streak.

 

Also I feel like for next year teams are gonna be able to get a better read of how we play after 40 games we play this year than 20. That might have played a part in what happened(The horrendous start) with Boudreau who took over earlier than Tocchet. Perhaps a factor but obviously not the sole factor of why the start to this season sucked. My point is about keeping our cards close and giving teams less of a sample size when scouting and preparing for our team. 

 

We've played 20 games already and Tocchet is already talking about players buying in so 1/4 of a season is probably enough for a coach to implement systems. You also factor in training camp during the following preseason then they should for sure have enough time. 

 

But yeah it's whatever now, I hope we just win the lottery if we end up 8-11. New rules now that you only can move up 10 spots i think. So if you won the lotto at 13th overall you'd get 3rd overall max. 3 or 4 wouldn't be bad but top 2 have had "generational" tags thrown at them. 

 

 

Bedard/Fantilli would be absolutely perfect during this retool. Would be crazy. Gonna try not to cheer for losses but if they stunk a lot of the way I wouldn't be upset. Easier schedule though the rest of the way so probably not. 

 

Key thing for this team is to be able to start next year well. This and last year's first quarters have been awful. We gotta have a better Oct-Dec. That's critical.

Yes, there is the old saying, you can't win the league in the first 3 months, but you can definitely lose it....

 

I think the turn around have been much faster than anyone anticipated... even most fans are surprised how well they are playing now, and that could be the reason they didn't wait until the last quarter'ish of games before making the change. Nobody anticipated they would be a proper team so fast. 

Playing and AHL defence and still winning most is not short of amazing despite the opposition...

 

It would be a dream to win the lottery, but the last 10 years has been nothing but one disappointment after another during the drafts, while seeing the same teams move up time and again, we always drop.... so I've got tempered expectation about the draft. They say it isn't rigged, and that is probably true, but lets see what happens at the draft. Expect Chicago to get a good draft and either sharks or Anaheim as well.... Surely Buffalo can't get another top pick...

 

So because of that, I just sit back watch it unfold and prey to the Almighty that we don't have another false dawn, but will be pushing properly starting next season.

[Gawdzukes]

11 minutes ago, Seannnp said:

I would have to disagree with you here. This years improvement is markedly different and distinguishable from last year. You can save this for next year if you would like but I am confident we will comfortably be in the playoffs next season. The off season will be used to shed cap and only improve the team further. 

 

Also, no chance we ever finish with the worst record or even bottom 5 of the league with Demko, Hughes, Kuzmenko, Miller and Pettersson. A top 5 pick at the beginning of this season shouldve been a pipe dream. This team is no where near as bad as the bottom 5 of the league (CHI, ARI, ANA, CLB, SJ). How do we out tank these teams? Stop playing Petey who is trying to set himself up for a pay day? Rest Demko who has a chip on his shoulder and something to prove after missing most of the season? Ask our AHL callups to take it easier whilst they play for a spot on next years team? 

 

I really dont understand how anyone/any fan can expect the players/coaching staff to lose intentionally or give themselves the worst chance possible at losing these games. It makes as little sense as the team going on a winning streak and "winning pointless games" (theoretically, of course!)

I have to chuckle at the confidently in the playoffs comments. Just like the start of this year when half of the people were predicting a division title. What a ridiculous claim for a team with such a horrible showing and not much in the way of ability to improve the group. More so huge question marks as to how we'll be cap compliant. I wonder if Arizona is predicting their going to be in the playoffs too?

 

All this after 5 meaningless games after a piss poor season of epic proportions. I mean hope is one thing but confidently in the playoffs. C'mon.