An Oliver Ekman-Larsson buyout is the only way the Canucks can re-tool the defence

[Ghostsof1915]

OEL has better tools than Edler. If he's been injured all year under a non-existent defense structure. I wonder what a healthy season with coaches that know how to get the best out of a defenceman will do? After all Edler is still chugging away even though he's certainly lost a step. But he makes up for it with positioning.

 

I'm willing to see what he can do this season. Give him a "fresh start". If he still struggles, then yes buy him out next year.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Ghostsof1915

[DownUndaCanuck]

I don't think we should buy OEL out, but we have to support him. If he's our 2nd best LD next year, we're putting a lot of risk on that position. If he plays well, great, if he comes out and plays the same as last year, we're finished. I think we need a proper top-4 LD to shelter OEL. Let him play a solid 15-18 minutes on the bottom pairing and PK but if we load him up with 20-23 minutes a night we're in trouble.

 

Sadly I don't think management will go out and get a UFA top-4 defenceman, they probably think Hronek is their saviour and OEL and Myers will get better with the new coaches. 

 

I'd rather move Myers, get an LD and roll with Hughes, an LD (like Graves/Gavrikov), Hronek, and OEL on our bottom pairing, and just play any old guy with Hughes.

 

My concern is management will roll OEL as our 2nd best left defenceman and have either Hirose or Rathbone on the bottom pairing. That's risky. Firstly, one injury and our team is finished. Secondly, OEL plays bad and we're finished. Injury + bad OEL and we're a bottom feeder.

 

Worst thing is the minutes - no solid LD and you know Hughes is playing 25 minutes a night. If we've got Hirose or Rathbone on the bottom pairing they'll probably get around 15 minutes a night if they're lucky. That leaves what, 20ish minutes for OEL.

 

Instead, we get a guy like Graves who can play solid shutdown hockey with Hronek and we can drop Hughes to 22-23 minutes a night, Graves gets a solid 20 minutes and OEL down to 17-18 minutes.

[qwijibo]

1 hour ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I don't think he's fully recovered from his injuries. 

He has another 5 months.  It’s unlikely he starts the season on LTIR 

[Hairy Kneel]

1 hour ago, qwijibo said:

He has another 5 months.  It’s unlikely he starts the season on LTIR 

It's a medical decision. 

[qwijibo]

14 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

It's a medical decision. 

Absolutely.  But he was already off the crutches before the season ended.  To the best of my knowledge there’s been no suggestion that he won’t be ready to at the start of the season.  

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

OEL has better tools than Edler. If he's been injured all year under a non-existent defense structure. I wonder what a healthy season with coaches that know how to get the best out of a defenceman will do? After all Edler is still chugging away even though he's certainly lost a step. But he makes up for it with positioning.

 

I'm willing to see what he can do this season. Give him a "fresh start". If he still struggles, then yes buy him out next year.

Edler had 34 points in 56 games at age 32 playing over 24 minutes a night on the top pairing.  He was a beast at age 32.  OEL is 32 this year.  He will need to have a big year in order to redeem himself.  He was worse this year then Edler who is now 37.  

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

OEL has better tools than Edler. If he's been injured all year under a non-existent defense structure. I wonder what a healthy season with coaches that know how to get the best out of a defenceman will do? After all Edler is still chugging away even though he's certainly lost a step. But he makes up for it with positioning.

 

I'm willing to see what he can do this season. Give him a "fresh start". If he still struggles, then yes buy him out next year.

Tocchet's been able to get the best out of what he was given with but I doubt that'll be the case with OEL (who wilted completely under him in Arizona).  We can only hope this won't be the case here but it really seems unlikely given the mileage & age of OEL right now.

Edited April 29, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Hairy Kneel]

17 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Absolutely.  But he was already off the crutches before the season ended.  To the best of my knowledge there’s been no suggestion that he won’t be ready to at the start of the season.  

I guess we'll have to wait and see if and when he gets full clearance. He didn't look well in his last 10-20 games. Slow and weakly. 

I agree Edler played better. 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Hairy Kneel

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I don't think we should buy OEL out, but we have to support him. If he's our 2nd best LD next year, we're putting a lot of risk on that position. If he plays well, great, if he comes out and plays the same as last year, we're finished. I think we need a proper top-4 LD to shelter OEL. Let him play a solid 15-18 minutes on the bottom pairing and PK but if we load him up with 20-23 minutes a night we're in trouble.

 

Sadly I don't think management will go out and get a UFA top-4 defenceman, they probably think Hronek is their saviour and OEL and Myers will get better with the new coaches. 

 

I'd rather move Myers, get an LD and roll with Hughes, an LD (like Graves/Gavrikov), Hronek, and OEL on our bottom pairing, and just play any old guy with Hughes.

 

My concern is management will roll OEL as our 2nd best left defenceman and have either Hirose or Rathbone on the bottom pairing. That's risky. Firstly, one injury and our team is finished. Secondly, OEL plays bad and we're finished. Injury + bad OEL and we're a bottom feeder.

 

Worst thing is the minutes - no solid LD and you know Hughes is playing 25 minutes a night. If we've got Hirose or Rathbone on the bottom pairing they'll probably get around 15 minutes a night if they're lucky. That leaves what, 20ish minutes for OEL.

 

Instead, we get a guy like Graves who can play solid shutdown hockey with Hronek and we can drop Hughes to 22-23 minutes a night, Graves gets a solid 20 minutes and OEL down to 17-18 minutes.

I'd be shocked if we didn't get a LHD this summer.  No way Tocchet is going to run a left side of Hughes, OEL and Rathbone.  He will probably resign if he is forced to do that.  So will Adam Foote.  LHD is our biggest need at the moment.  Even bigger than a 3C IMO.  Anyone can play with Hughes so we can play Juulsen there or sign Schenn.  That's not a hard short term fix.  3C is a little trickier but we can probably get someone decent in free agency at around $2 million.  LHD is the biggest one though, as those players will be costly.  Graves or Gavrikov will be $5 million+ most likely.  If we are keeping OEL around then no way we can sign either one of those guys.  Hopefully, Rick Dhaliwal wins his $20 bet with Don Taylor and we sign Tryamkin to come play left D for $1.5-2 million...

Edited April 29, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[spook007]

12 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I'd be shocked if we didn't get a LHD this summer.  No way Tocchet is going to run a left side of Hughes, OEL and Rathbone.  He will probably resign if he is forced to do that.  So will Adam Foote.  LHD is our biggest need at the moment.  Even bigger than a 3C IMO.  Anyone can play with Hughes so we can play Juulsen there or sign Schenn.  That's not a hard short term fix.  3C is a little trickier but we can probably get someone decent in free agency at around $2 million.  LHD is the biggest one though, as those players will be costly.  Graves or Gavrikov will be $5 million+ most likely.  If we are keeping OEL around then no way we can sign either one of those guys.  Hopefully, Rick Dhaliwal wins his $20 bet with Don Taylor and we sign Tryamkin to come play left D for $1.5-2 million...

Spot on... we need somebody that can take the battle up. Doubt Rathbone will be playing regardless. More chance Wolanin plays...

Rathbone can't defend. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

17 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I'd be shocked if we didn't get a LHD this summer.  No way Tocchet is going to run a left side of Hughes, OEL and Rathbone.  He will probably resign if he is forced to do that.  So will Adam Foote.  LHD is our biggest need at the moment.  Even bigger than a 3C IMO.  Anyone can play with Hughes so we can play Juulsen there or sign Schenn.  That's not a hard short term fix.  3C is a little trickier but we can probably get someone decent in free agency at around $2 million.  LHD is the biggest one though, as those players will be costly.  Graves or Gavrikov will be $5 million+ most likely.  If we are keeping OEL around then no way we can sign either one of those guys.  Hopefully, Rick Dhaliwal wins his $20 bet with Don Taylor and we sign Tryamkin to come play left D for $1.5-2 million...

I'd love Graves personally, could easily get him for 4.5-5.5M, Gavrikov will be highly contested.

 

I think another option is a cheap guy like Soucy for the "bottom" pairing but who will probably end up stealing minutes off OEL.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I'd love Graves personally, could easily get him for 4.5-5.5M, Gavrikov will be highly contested.

 

I think another option is a cheap guy like Soucy for the "bottom" pairing but who will probably end up stealing minutes off OEL.

I like Soucy as well.  He'd probably be in the $3 million range.  

[DownUndaCanuck]

15 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I like Soucy as well.  He'd probably be in the $3 million range.  

It all depends on the market, if Mayfield is happy with 4M I'd take a run at him but regardless, we need to move a winger to fit some guys in. Depending on who we move and how expensive the 3C we find is can dictate which defenceman we go for but Allvin has no excuses - there is a perfect defenceman on the market for every different value.

[Phat Fingers]

22 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I don't think we should buy OEL out, but we have to support him. If he's our 2nd best LD next year, we're putting a lot of risk on that position. If he plays well, great, if he comes out and plays the same as last year, we're finished. I think we need a proper top-4 LD to shelter OEL. Let him play a solid 15-18 minutes on the bottom pairing and PK but if we load him up with 20-23 minutes a night we're in trouble.

 

Sadly I don't think management will go out and get a UFA top-4 defenceman, they probably think Hronek is their saviour and OEL and Myers will get better with the new coaches. 

 

I'd rather move Myers, get an LD and roll with Hughes, an LD (like Graves/Gavrikov), Hronek, and OEL on our bottom pairing, and just play any old guy with Hughes.

 

My concern is management will roll OEL as our 2nd best left defenceman and have either Hirose or Rathbone on the bottom pairing. That's risky. Firstly, one injury and our team is finished. Secondly, OEL plays bad and we're finished. Injury + bad OEL and we're a bottom feeder.

 

Worst thing is the minutes - no solid LD and you know Hughes is playing 25 minutes a night. If we've got Hirose or Rathbone on the bottom pairing they'll probably get around 15 minutes a night if they're lucky. That leaves what, 20ish minutes for OEL.

 

Instead, we get a guy like Graves who can play solid shutdown hockey with Hronek and we can drop Hughes to 22-23 minutes a night, Graves gets a solid 20 minutes and OEL down to 17-18 minutes.

IDK.

 

Anyone getting hurt will impact the team.

 

but if they are hurt, that frees up cap space, so one at least has an opportunity to get replacement into the lineup that has a similar cap value.

 

the cap value is a metric that does usually indicate the quality of the player and minutes.

 

unless your JB… lol.

 

not money ball, LTIR.

 

But if we buy him out, like the other posters argue, we get to start with the highest cost per minute option, paying two players for the same minutes played.

 

one just plays for another team.

 

or golf’s.

 

With a cap penalty that has been plaguing this club more than most in the league and it’s the very trouble that brough down the last management group.

 

There is a time and place to Buyout a player.

 

OEL is simply not at that point,

 

And his contract is onerous.

 

But not as onerous if he is playing for us Vs us finding a cheaper option that also declines and we have to buy out that FA band aid pay high sell low players as well.

 

I am personally optimistic that OEL is more of a whipping boy than actual liability and for the sake of logic, he should be healthy at the start of this coming season, his is not named Salo, and he is a very smart player with good skating and good intelligence.

 

With Hronek, OEL is now our 3rd best defender.

 

Exactly where he should be, behind the first pairing LHD Hughes.

 

Myers is a costly defender and his contract is going to radically change in its value to other teams in the league.

 

he does play a lot of minutes, but is not capable of consistently playing at against top Six lines attacking.

 

At 1m cost in actual dollars to a club after 09-15, I think he is the guy to move, and any player coming back in cap dump, could be useful based on position.

 

Having Hronek in the line up allows a skilled guy like OEL switch sides and give Rathbone a chance to play the second LHD attacking D, and focus the off-season in finding a serviceable defender who is a RHD guy that plays a solid defensive game and can take the physical play, and be a presence on the ice that makes taking liberties and or running or goalie or star players a bit more risky,

 

Cough Luke Schenn, Cough.

 

Lose Myers, give Schenn a two year deal with a raise and make Quinn Hughes happy,

 

Then give Woo a ride with the big club with guys like Schenn and Buroughs with Tochett and Foote to teach Woo how to be the Stay at home physical player that occasionally adds to the score sheet, but definitely keeps the other team very aware of his presence on the ice.

 

The Swede D we signed this year is another example of how we fix our defence.

 

Pro Am Scouting.

 

The club has found out how to miss on defence at the draft, in the system and has also made some huge wins along the way with late blooming long shots.

 

Biggest miss in the modern era, OJ.

 

or JV and I can eat crow on supporting them as developing players in our system.

 

I am optimistic by nature.

 

But at their respective drafts, neither was my own preference as a fan at the pick.

 

I wanted Ehlers, and we all should have wanted Larkin and Pasternak and JB blew his career on JV over and over.

 

But dishing McCann instead of JV can be another example.

 

I also thought Serge and or Chychrun were the guys, and even at his best, I would still struggle to ever like Brady’s older brother.

 

He was never going to stay in Canada.

 

But OJ is so flawed a a puck considering how impressed the Canucks Brass was at his interview.

 

The flaw wasn’t OJ it was the Canucks Brass.

 

OJ is what he is.

 

Back to OEL.

 

We have him at this point, fully in the second paring and third in depth.

 

He would be picked up immediately on the FA market, sign with a club that was ready to play him in the second pair 3/4 spot and have two legit 1st pairing younger guys ahead of him, and OEL would blow the media away with his sudden ‘resurgence’ and we would be in the same perpetual agony that a good portion of the media and some of the cdc crave.

 

It’s called a personality disorder.

 

Freud called it ‘Antisocial’ and what we get caught up in is the constant problems.

 

that we react too, instead of work thru.

 

the Antisocial Behaviour is by the guys who need to drive ad revenues in the off season and or lack of playoffs in a one sport city with no substance to work with.

 

so yank the old chain and start the manufacturing equipment and see how many take up the narrative and watch, listen and or read.

 

The economics of the cap have to make sense in terms of dollars assigned to healthy minutes played, injured minutes played etc…

 

Then when you factor in that Myers was also hurt and missed camp, with OEL having to be the Number 2 guy injured, and the Number 3 in minutes played is out for the first 8 games which the starter in net was also injured, it gets really difficult to assess the negative stats for OEL and the massive negativity.

 

Had we been able to have Elder as our number 3 guy at the same age and point in his career, with a Hughes and Hronek being younger and ahead in the depth chart, we would have been light years better in the last 5 years of his time here.

 

We bitched and moaned about how over played and Edler was putting in the work but his legs weren’t as fast and his ability to keep up with the top lines was declining, but he was still a great defender and he could still suprise with stretch of games where he looked like his old self.

 

OEL is at that that point in his career with lighter minutes can give him better results and is better results and he can step into the top pair in times of need and if healthy, is able to give a quality of play that doesn’t take from the top unit.

 

I would wait and see at minimum, until this next season is over before even speaking about buying out a d man.

 

Myers is an obvious guy to deal and his cap hit is just a bit less than OEL’s and trading Brock may be hard, it will be easy to trade Garland and or AB for pick.

 

They have the right contract for a second line winger, and are fair value.

 

it’s Brock that is higher costed and he has better numbers, but is visibly slower on the ice.

 

The problem is about trading Brock or guys with 6 m plus contracts who play second line minutes and or second pairing minutes.

 

that’s overpriced, or high priced, reserved for the guys that are near the top 30 in the league but not quite.

 

We actually have three wingers that could move.  Michaylev is in the same range as Garland and AB. 
 

We have 4 guys, 5 is you counted Pearson who are here to 4 plus million for two spots.

 

Second line winger.

 

Don’t see an need to lose more cap from the defence.

 

we need to shed the cap on the second line.

 

If buyouts are on the table,

 

Buy out Garland?  For example…

 

and then we save cap and have achieved the same goal, and don’t lose anything from our depth and on ice product.

 

 

 

 

[Baggins]

On 4/29/2023 at 6:47 AM, Hairy Kneel said:

I don't think he's fully recovered from his injuries. 

You don't think he's fully recovered four months from now? Can I borrow that crystal ball... 

[Hairy Kneel]

2 hours ago, Baggins said:

You don't think he's fully recovered four months from now? Can I borrow that crystal ball... 

As of the end of this past season he wasn't ready at all.