Pettersson Vs Hughes: Who’s the more valuable piece?

[48MPHSlapShot]

1 hour ago, EddieVedder said:

Whats the point of this poll?  Even together they aren't good enough to get us into the playoffs. 

The team needs a top 3 pick this year desperately.

What's the point of this post? OP asked a pretty straight forward question that had nothing to do with draft picks or playoffs. 

[Phil_314]

3 hours ago, -DLC- said:

That's like asking us which kid we love more.

 

Can't do it.

Pretty much this, esp. when their skill sets are so complementary (Hughes defends in his own zone and transitions the puck up ice, also walks the line on the PP; Petey takes draws, takes one-timers and does other forward things).  It's like asking do you keep Daniel or Henrik, shooter or passer?  You need both.

Re: OP, If it was prior to trading for Hronek I would've said Hughes since (as someone else mentioned) Petey had Miller helping him, whereas OEL (for a season) or Schenn (mostly for defense and pugilism) was the best help he had and he took on a larger role.  Hopefully that would mean that Hughes gets actual defensive support for once.  

[guntrix]

Hughes and it’s not even close. 

Mobile, offensive defensemen that can quarterback a PP are the most coveted players in the league for a reason. 

[Elias Pettersson]

49 minutes ago, Cup_Joneser said:

oh, my bad.

 

Detroit had 3 first round picks in ten years before they won their cup in 2008.

No they didn’t. Their last top 3 pick was Keith Primeau in 1990.  He wasn’t even on the team in 2008. 

[Toyotasfan]

I went with Hughes. Based on 

if either player were hypothetically traded to a top 5 tier team , like Boston , Tampa, Toronto, Hughes would have a bigger role than Pettersson. 
 

[Baggins]

40 minutes ago, kilgore said:

Yeah this is like picking a favourite child. But if I had to....

 

I look at it this way. 

BOTH are good offensively (assists and/or goals)

BOTH are good defensively

 

But Petey is better in both of those categories.  Its a no brainer.

 

 

I agree both are good offensively and defensively. High end playmakers are often underrated compared to goal scorers by fans. I do put high value on good playmakers. Playmakers can elevate a plug but can't make them scoring stars. They do need guys with a good shot to really succeed. Hughes is a low goal scorer, even for a d-man, but a high end playmaker. He relies highly on good shooters to rack up points. Petey on the other hand is both a good goal scorer and a good playmaker. What puts Petey above Hughes for me is the guy that can elevate others with his playmaking, and put it in the net, has more value than the pure playmaker. Were Hughes hitting 15+ goals per season along with all those assists he'd be in rare territory and I'd likely put him higher than Petey. 

[-AJ-]

I think Petey is a bit better, but being a D just makes Hughes worth a little bit more.

[48MPHSlapShot]

Very, very close, and although I think Petey is a more complete player, I might have to give an ever so slight edge to Hughes. What he's doing is so unbelievable that he's putting up comparible numbers to what Coffee and Orr were doing at this point in their careers, and doing it while on a bad team too. You don't waste something like that. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, guntrix said:

Hughes and it’s not even close. 

Mobile, offensive defensemen that can quarterback a PP are the most coveted players in the league for a reason. 

The most coveted players in the league are superstar centres who can do it all. How many centres in the NHL can score 100 points and also have a chance at winning the Selke trophy?  
 

There are only 7 superstar centres in the NHL. And only Petey is a Selke trophy candidate. So he is in a class all by himself. Hughes on the other hand is in a class with several other players. 
 

 Both are superstars but Petey has no rivals. He is the most complete centre in the NHL. 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

Whats the point of this poll?  Even together they aren't good enough to get us into the playoffs. 

The team needs a top 3 pick this year desperately.

 Brock Boeser says hi. 

 

[IBatch]

I voted EP.   But agree with Deb it's awfully tough.    As for who should get the C,  Hughes should, that is if Miller isn't picked.  

Edited March 22, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The most coveted players in the league are superstar centres who can do it all. How many centres in the NHL can score 100 points and also have a chance at winning the Selke trophy?  
 

There are only 7 superstar centres in the NHL. And only Petey is a Selke trophy candidate. So he is in a class all by himself. Hughes on the other hand is in a class with several other players. 
 

 Both are superstars but Petey has no rivals. He is the most complete centre in the NHL. 

By pure definition, there can only be 2-3 superstars in the league at any given time.   If you want to add each position, then maybe 7.    Superstars should be regularly considered for first and second team all-star spots.   And win some hardware.    So far EP's sneaking up into that area, but he's got stiff competition.     

[Nucker 67]

There is no one like the future captain and legend, a warrior who will get a puck in the face and be back in the game asap and still log 30 minutes. Mr. Quinn Hughes. 

[Elias Pettersson]

13 minutes ago, IBatch said:

By pure definition, there can only be 2-3 superstars in the league at any given time.   If you want to add each position, then maybe 7.    Superstars should be regularly considered for first and second team all-star spots.   And win some hardware.    So far EP's sneaking up into that area, but he's got stiff competition.     

Only 5 centres are currently at 100 points or are on pace for 100 points. McDavid, Draisaitl, Petey, MacKinnon and Thompson. 
 

Out of those 5, Petey is the only one in contention for the Selke trophy. I would argue he is the most complete centre out of all of those 5 players. He has more 5v5 points than McDavid. If Petey was on the Edmonton power play he would have 120+ points. 
 

He is a top 3 centre in the NHL and is a legit superstar. I don’t think Hughes is in that category yet. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[IBatch]

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Only 5 centres are currently at 100 points or are on pace for 100 points. McDavid, Draisaitl, Petey, MacKinnon and Thompson. 
 

Out of those 5, Petey is the only one in contention for the Selke trophy. I would argue he is the most complete centre out of all of those 5 players. He has more 5x5 points than McDavid. If Petey was on the Edmonton power play he would have 120+ points. 
 

He is a top 3 centre in the NHL and is a legit superstar. I don’t think Hughes is in that category yet. 

He's special.   Hope this is just the start.    Again a super star is a star that is above his peer group.    Pure definition.   Hers the even strength this year so far - up until two weeks ago, EK led this field.  As a defenseman.   Only centers.    It can't just be one year.    

 

Right now McDavid is a superstar.  That much is undeniable.  EK is also showing the league his ankle is finally ok too.   Already robbed of one Norris.   Sundin was never a superstar.   Same with Francis.  

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by IBatch

[Elias Pettersson]

7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

He's special.   Hope this is just the start.  

Under Rick Tocchet, JT Miller has 28 points in 23 games. He is on a pace for 100 points and looks even better than last year. Petey has 35 points in 24 games. He is on a pace for 120 points. Under Rick Tocchet their numbers are exponentially better than under Boudreau even with a structured defensive system. 
 

Imagine when Hronek is in the lineup?  Petey is just getting warmed up. His ceiling is being the best player in the NHL. I can see him getting 120 points next year and winning the Selke trophy. 
 

Oh yeah, he is special. Very special. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[IBatch]

17 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Under Rick Tocchet, JT Miller has 28 points in 23 games. He is on a pace for 100 points and looks even better than last year. Petey has 35 points in 24 games. He is on a pace for 120 points. Under Rick Tocchet their numbers are exponentially better than under Boudreau even with a structured defensive system. 
 

Imagine when Hronek is in the lineup?  Petey is just getting warmed up. His ceiling is being the best player in the NHL. I can see him getting 120 points next year and winning the Selke trophy. 
 

Oh yeah, he is special. Very special. 

You bet.  I voted EP too.   He is special.  So is QHs.   Given what they've accomplished at their age so far on some bad/mediocre teams - it's fair to say only Bure did as much.    It's also why I don't have any issue with the direction the club is taking.     Want to see some 40-50 goal seasons first for EP before I get the superstar handle out though.   And a few in the bag (this year is one!).   For sure he's a star, and one of the better ones at that.    He needs to be better than most or all the other stars for his position at least first.    Miller is feasting on the PP.   But showing he's a star still too, and for sure earned every single penny of his next deal.  

Edited March 22, 2023 by IBatch

[Elias Pettersson]

10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

You bet.  I voted EP too.   He is special.  So is QHs.   Given what they've accomplished at their age so far on some bad/mediocre teams - it's fair to say only Bure did as much.    It's also why I don't have any issue with the direction the club is taking.     Want to see some 40-50 goal seasons first for EP before I get the superstar handle out though.   And a few in the bag.   For sure he's a star, and one of the better ones at that. 

When you have Petey, Hughes and Demko you don’t need to rebuild. You already have 3 of the best players at their positions. You build around those 3. Rebuilding teams are teams that don’t have these 3 players. 
 

Miller, Kuzmenko and Hronek are the other core players. We have 6 now. Even Edmonton of the 1980’s only had 7. Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Anderson, Coffey, Lowe and Fuhr. We could use one more core player up front but I don’t think it is necessary. Guys like Mikheyev, Beauvillier and the other wingers can hopefully make up the difference. 
 

We need a 3C up front and maybe 1-2 more sandpaper guys. That’s it up front. We have our goalie and even an up and coming stud. We have our 2 core Dmen now. So the bulk of the work that needs to be done is getting  those 4-5 support Dmen for Hughes and Hronek. Even 2-3 would be sufficient. 
 

If JR/PA can get those 6-7 guys this summer then we are pretty much set for not only a playoff spot but to also do some damage in the playoffs. Next year should be real exciting. Probably will be our best year since 2012. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Phil_314]

42 minutes ago, Baggins said:

I agree both are good offensively and defensively. High end playmakers are often underrated compared to goal scorers by fans. I do put high value on good playmakers. Playmakers can elevate a plug but can't make them scoring stars. They do need guys with a good shot to really succeed. Hughes is a low goal scorer, even for a d-man, but a high end playmaker. He relies highly on good shooters to rack up points. Petey on the other hand is both a good goal scorer and a good playmaker. What puts Petey above Hughes for me is the guy that can elevate others with his playmaking, and put it in the net, has more value than the pure playmaker. Were Hughes hitting 15+ goals per season along with all those assists he'd be in rare territory and I'd likely put him higher than Petey. 

That's a really good point actually.  Put Quinn on Nashville and he wouldn't have the kind of season that Josi had last season (even though he can setup scorers and rack up the same 70+ assists he doesn't have the cannon of a shot to put up 23 goals), and if you put him on Chicago this year he wouldn't be doing much better than how Seth Jones has been doing since he wouldn't have the scorers to finish off his passes.  Petey on the Hawks could at least help say Tyler Johnson and Luka Reichel to not be utter scrubs but he'd help them rack up easy assists from his goals, and he could also feed them easy passes, while also helping them on defense.  This added dimension is underrated but important.  

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

By pure definition, there can only be 2-3 superstars in the league at any given time.   If you want to add each position, then maybe 7.    Superstars should be regularly considered for first and second team all-star spots.   And win some hardware.    So far EP's sneaking up into that area, but he's got stiff competition.     

 

I feel the term is used far more broadly than it should be, though not as badly abused as generational.

 

But if we pick a year...say...1983...which ones on this list would fail to meet the standard of superstar at the time?

 

Gretzky

Bossy

Trottier

Potvin

Bourque

Coffey

Kurri

Langway

Hawerchuk

Peter Stastny

Denis Savard

Goulet

Messier

(and I haven't named any goalies)

(by the way Dave Babych was 3rd in the NHL for points by a defenseman that year)

 

Or 1993 just for the sake of argument...

 

Roy

Belfour

Gretzky

Lemieux

Bourque

Coffey

Messier

Bure

Lafontaine

Oates

Yzerman

Selanne

Gilmour

Pierre Turgeon

Mogilny

Robitaile

Brett Hull

Sakic

 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Kevin Biestra