[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Arizona Coyotes | Apr. 13, 2023

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, johngould21 said:

Is that the issue? He looks pretty fit to me. He's not Quinn Hughes fit, but....who is?
 

Kuz Missile? He’s not fit. He needs, like Boeser, to lean out while getting stronger

[Canuck You]

We in the same club homies!..

[EddieVedder]

1 hour ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Yea, we are about 4 core pieces away from even coming close. Get real JT.

 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

Yea, we are about 4 core pieces away from even coming close. Get real JT.

 

How many players make up your core? For most it’s five. So basically you’re saying we have one core piece. IMHAO we have five elite core pieces (Demko, Hughes, Petey, Miller, Hronek) it’s the supporting cast where we need four more pieces. And those guys are much easier to come by (trade, free agency, draft) than getting the core five. 

[spook007]

10 hours ago, Mo Grit said:

from our last night's game 82 roster, I'm not expecting to see any of these guys in the opening line-up next year:  

 

     Boeser   Garland   Dries   McDonough   Kuzmenko   Studnicka   Hirose   Bear   McWard   Myers   Delia   Beauvillier

 

For differing reasons, that's 12 players gotta go - some just to help to carry others out.

But, does Alvin already have deal options-in-waiting from those intense TDL negotiations?  He seems quite a canny operator.

Once our lottery hopes are officially dead, will we trade our 1st pick for more NHL-ready help on our D, given that we appear to

have cornered ourselves into a 'win-now' management time-frame?

 

I think you'll be disappointed....

[spook007]

10 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Why? Jones is an overpaid, soft player. Let Chicago choke on him. 

Think it was tongue in cheek... almost a re-run of the LE to OEL trade....

[Curmudgeon]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

How many players make up your core? For most it’s five. So basically you’re saying we have one core piece. IMHAO we have five elite core pieces (Demko, Hughes, Petey, Miller, Hronek) it’s the supporting cast where we need four more pieces. And those guys are much easier to come by (trade, free agency, draft) than getting the core five. 

I like your perspective Alf. I might add Kuzmenko to the core as I think he's capable of a 50 goal season. And I know it's way too early, but Hirose gives me serious Tanev vibes with his calmness. And he's a better skater and puck handler than Tanev, too. 

[Pure961089]

1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

I don't care for it either, but I don't think it's due toTocc being 'mean spirited'.  I see Tocc as being 'old school'.  He was

a 6th round draft pick and worked his way into becoming a tough as nails power forward that could score.

Problem is, I don't think that style works too well with a different generation of players. Kuze is an important

player on our team, so I would think that if it becomes a problem, PA would step in to sort it out.

Tocchet always talks about a partnership he has with the players, I don't see how this is a partnership if Tocchet is making decisions out of spite. The last thing we need is Kuzy souring on Tocchet and the Canucks because of pettiness.

[spook007]

9 hours ago, Mo Grit said:

Yes, Jay I'm big on Kuz, his scoring for fun talent has turned him into a valuable trade asset. 

But Tocchet doesn't seem to appreciate him, and I can't see management resisting a decent offer, or including him in a deal to help off-load some of the cap.

 

As horrible as the thought of Kuz being shifted is, its not unthinkable, if the offer is good enough. Imagine somebody taking OEL with maybe 30% retention together with Kuz and a contract running out after 1 year comes back. 
Then in 1 year we are free from OEL and Myers with 'only' $2-2,5M in dead cap until OELs contract is over (cheaper than buying him out).
Not Ideal, but plenty of room for manouvre for a reset of the entire D. 

 

Maybe we even find a way to dump Myers this summer as well (one can only hope) and then the D is ready for a total overhaul this summer

Its a gamble to let go of Kuz, but in the end no stone should be left untouched, in the attempt to rebuild the D. 
Maybe a good prospect coming back in the trade as well from a team in their window, desperate to extend their window another couple of years.... remember Benning going for LE to extend the Sedins window....
Kuz is on a good contract for 2 more years, and that would definitely get a lot more attention than BB, Garland or Beau. Maybe even adding one of them, if a Dman at similar costs comes the other way....

interesting idea...

Edited April 15, 2023 by spook007

[Pure961089]

Also I find it sad that Tocchet can't talk about Garland after a hat trick without inserting in the "for his size" trope.  He's a really good middle 6 player period. Regardless of size.

[eeeeergh]

41 minutes ago, Alflives said:

How many players make up your core? For most it’s five. So basically you’re saying we have one core piece. IMHAO we have five elite core pieces (Demko, Hughes, Petey, Miller, Hronek) it’s the supporting cast where we need four more pieces. And those guys are much easier to come by (trade, free agency, draft) than getting the core five. 

We’re gonna be a good playoff team next year; take everyone by surprise.

 

if Alvin and the chipmunks can manage to unload OEL contract without a buyout we may contend for a cup in a couple years 

 

Allvin got a 40 goal scorer for free, got us a top pairing rd, and found a top4 defense man in college for free. 
 

not to mention mikheyev and new beau 

 

and we still have our 2023 1st 

 

might be better gm than Gillis honestly 

 

we’re literally just missing a 3C and another top-4 defenseman. They’re also going to revamp our bottom 6 a bit and move out slowpokes so fast forecheckers like Hoglander can play a possession game 

[spook007]

8 hours ago, BPA said:

Pretty sure EP is going to command $9M+ on his next contract.  With so many $$$ contracts, the team needs to make some necessary changes to make the playoffs.

 

I doubt a 11th overall BPA this year will help them achieve that.

 

 

Posters keep saying that EP and QH won’t stick around for a rebuild.  What makes you think they will stick around if they continually miss the playoffs by being mediocre?

This is exactly, why we should push the boat out. We need to show them, we have ambitions to win. Otherwise, they are likely to either lose interest in us, or ask for the moon. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

Tocchet is such a great communicator, deepens relationships, gives credit where it's due ... should be PM.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Dr. Crossbar

[BPA]

2 minutes ago, spook007 said:

This is exactly, why we should push the boat out. We need to show them, we have ambitions to win. Otherwise, they are likely to either lose interest in us, or ask for the moon. 

Hence why I said they might try to trade that 1st 2023 pick for a top 4 RHD.

[Dr. Crossbar]

2 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Wet blanket era is over! Gonna be a lot of sad faces 'round here, creepin', trying to ... wet blanket. 

[spook007]

8 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Very honest assessment by JT...

Bravo... great to hear him take resposibility for the poor start to the season. No excuses....
This is Captain material.... 

[spook007]

6 minutes ago, BPA said:

Hence why I said they might try to trade that 1st 2023 pick for a top 4 RHD.

I defo don't disagree...

All avenues should be looked at for improving the team. Standing pat or a few sidewards moves won't be enough. 

[spook007]

8 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I think CG gets an unfair amount of criticism, but the Canucks need to shed salary and he seems like the most likely candidate to be moved. Personally, I'd have no issue keeping him, I just believe that management will decide he's a luxury the team cannot afford.

 

I know many people are banking on some bottom feeder taking Myers off our hands so they can reach the Cap floor, but I think that's just wishful thinking.

Yep... in the same mould as trading Garland or Beau will get us a top 4 D. 
Think it will cost to move Myers even with retention... pick or prospect, and even then it may not be enough. 
At least they will get to the bottom of the mess from Benning eventually...

[cripplereh]

Up me I can see the d pairings staying with what we have. 

 

 

QH. Johansson

Hirose. Hronek

OEL. McWard 

 

Bear

 

If Johansson doesn't pan out then Bear steps in and Johansson and the Canucks mutually part ways.  

 

Saying we need another top 4rhd is crazy as Johansson has a good shot and good defensively.

 

He brings that and our D is set already.

 

We need like BB and Rathbone trade for a 3C.

 

Myers and Hogs for a 2nd at draft but Myers would be the future considerations and traded after his signing bonus.

 

Year after when EP and Hronek need new deals you buyout OEL.

[AnthonyG]

14 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Seattle just made the playoffs with crap goaltending.  I guarantee they're going to have three goaltenders in net before their playoff run is over.  Why are you in such denial about the state of this team?  You're name-dropping players who performed well.  So what?  Is Arizona a good team because Clayton Keller had an amazing season?  Is San Jose a good team because Erik Karlsson got 100 points?

 

This season was mediocre.  We set out to make the playoffs this year.  We ended up in 22nd place.  By all standards, this season was a failure.  I'm not saying there aren't things to look forward to.  But this season was a failure because our team was mediocre.  Before Tocchet, our defensive stats were horrendous across the board.  There are hundreds of team and individual defense metrics that show we sucked.  We actively used a pairing of OEL-Myers and you're blaming two goalies on minimum contracts.  That's what you get for starting two goalies earning minimum salary - you lose games.  We didn't do anything to improve that.  Management actually didn't do anything to stop the losing, including getting rid of our head coach.  We couldn't even afford a decent backup because we were maxed out on the salary cap.

 

Give your a head a shake and admit that this team has been poorly managed for several years now.  We are on our fourth coach in six years, dude.  What kind of birdbrain tries to pin our whole season on our backup goalies?  "Oh yeah, the Canucks this season were a disaster because of... the backup goalies."  That's so stupid.  Just keep making excuses for why we've failed to make the playoffs each year.  It's a long list.

How crappy? We talkin?

 

Grubauer 39GP 2.85GAA

Jones 48GP 2.95GAA

 

Sure thats crappy

 

Demko 32GP 3.16GAA

Martin 29GP 3.99GAA - 1 full goal more than Jones and Grubauer.

Delia 20GP 3.28GAA

HOLYYYYYYYYYYYY F****************CK thats crappy. 29 games of trying to outscore 4 goals against for our team. LOL GOOOOOOOOOOOOD LUCK. We were able to put up some good offensive numbers... Martin just let in more....

 

Seattle is nowhere near as crappy as our goaltending performances. 2 teams with worse goaltending missed the divisional playoff spot and didnt get into the final WC spot.... Calgary and Vancouver. Both had worse goaltending than every team ahead of them.

 

Star - Singular, one

Stars - Plural, multiple, many

Clayton Keller - Singular, one

Erik Karlsson - Singular, one

Pettersson, Hughes, Miller, Kuzmenko - Plural, multiple, many

You really wanna compare us to Arizona and San Jose? Or should I say Keller and Karlsson, the 1 man shows?

Hey Keller you're in net, on the blueline AND 1st line. You got this.

Hey Karlsson, you're between the pipes, doing your usual on the blueline and you're #1C

 

Didn't realize 1 guy was an entire team.

Despite Karlsson and Keller's 1 man shows

SJS 24th in scoring

ARZ 28th in scoring

Seems to me like it takes a whole lot more than just 1 guy to score. 

 

Vancouver... 13th in scoring

outscored 5 playoff teams. 

Seattle 6th overall in scoring with 289, they scored 13 times more than us. They had no issues scoring and when it came to letting goals in... They were 15th (256GA), we were 24th with TWO HUNDRED NINETY-EIGHT GOALS AGAINST.
 

 

I myself never said this season wasn't a disappointment. It was a huge disappointment. However, it was FAR from mediocre. We had almost EVERYBODY producing. Our 4th line won us a handful of games on their production alone. Our goalies didnt steal a single game, they blew every lead instead. It didnt matter where the shot was coming from, goals were going in from EVERYWHERE. A week ago we had the worst combined team sv%. Thats unacceptable. Demko went down, Spencer Martin looked good last year, reality kicked in quick.

 

Yes our structure was horrible and it led to a lot of chances against, but that was a system issue, not personnel. We hired our coach, changed things around, pawned off Schenn and Horvat, our blueline get absolutely anihilated with injuries yet still came out with a winning record. 38-37-7 We started off 0-5-2 did we not? Our highest win streak was what 6 games??? and that took til 60 games? prior to that I think our longest win streak was 3 or 4? 

 

Actively used OEL and Myers???? are you sure???? 417mins TOI. OEL and Myers were rarely paired together. 

When OEL went down, every other top 4 pairing in the league had over double the TOI with their pair. So no, Myers and OEL were not actively used as a pair.

Not only that, but yea 2 back up goalies... They are both 3rd string goalies, both unproven. But I'm not even blaming them, I'm blaming Demko from the get-go. I understand Delia and Martin were going to struggle, but Demko has no excuses to not start the season on time for the 2nd season in a row. 

 

Oh and about the coaches.... Torts was not our coach. Bad hire and that was a Gillis hire. Desjardin, DID get us into playoffs. However when it came to the twins retiring and the official signal for a rebuild (which had already taken place 4 years prior in the background) Travis Green was selected to be the coach for the rebuild. He ran his course, his messages fell flat and the team had a rough start. They cleaned house, hired a coach to hold a spot and debated on wether or not that would be new managements guy.  Boudreau was not a JR and PA hire it was an FA hire. We now have our coach and things turned around, details in both ends of the ice have been noticeably better and results showed 5v5 and PK. 

 

 

Define poorly managed.

JB - had to rebuild with nothing. What do you expect??? This could have been a farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr more painful rebuild like ARZ, BUF, EDM, FLA, CAR, TOR, NJD, CBJ and every other doormat of the league the last 20 years and thats only in the last 20 years. There have been COUNTLESS 10-12 year rebuilds There have been some excruciating rebuilds, ours was fortunately not that long and we also managed 2 playoff appearances. There have been sooooooooo many BRUTALLY long rebuilds that have been perpetual. This is the worst stretch of hockey in Vancouver Canucks entire history, you spoiled brat in terms of playoff appearances. Quit your crying, its your first hard rebuild you've had to experience and you're clueless about the pain of rebuilds. 

JB managed to find a #1C, #1PMD and #1 Goalie. The 3 amigos. The 3 essentials to EVERY CUP WINNING RECIPE.

RFA negotiations??? JB Hit that sh*t so far out of the park it wasnt even funny. 

 

You wanna complain about cap situations???? Did you forget the last 2 years of your miserable life? This thing called COVID that was a world wide PANDEMIC... That FROZE a projected 2-6mil cap increase in 2020. The cap was projected to rise to 84-88mil in the Summer of 2020. Do you realize how hard it was to navigate those uncertain times? The fact JB was able to shed cap and re-sign Demko, Pettersson, Hughes AND Boeser all during a pandemic with no cap increase. Who were his cap casualties?? Tanev, Markstrom and Toffoli.... How'd that pan out for them and where they all are now?? I'm glad we didnt re-invest in any of them, other than maybe Tanev, but the dude is hurt every season and at the most critical times. Last years playoff "run" for CGY he had 3 major injuries.

 

Lol you wanna get into the season and how it went?? You really think we only beat sh*t teams and were no match for top teams??

 

EDM 5-3L

WSH 6-4L

MIN 4-3OTL

CAR 3-2L

SEA 5-4W

PIT 5-1W

NJD 5-2L

NSH 4-3SOL

TOR 3-2L

BOS 5-2L

LAK 4-1W

VGK 5-4L

COL 4-3W

VGK 5-1W

MIN 3-0L

SEA 6-5SOW

EDM 5-2W

WPG 4-2L

NYI 6-2W

COL 4-2W

TBL 5-4L

FLA 4-3L

CAR 4-3SOW

NJD 5-4OTL

NYR 4-3L

NYI 6-5W

NYR 6-4L

NSH 5-4SOL

BOS 3-1L

DAL 5-4OTW

MIN 2-1L

TOR 4-1W

NSH 4-3SOW

DAL 5-2W

LAK 3-2SOW

VGK 4-3L

DAL 3-1W

 

I didnt list every single game but 90% of games against top teams were within a couple goals. 

17-16-4 in close games with top teams. 

 

Theres a lot of 1 goal games that resulted in a loss. Plus a few more where they added an insurance marker on the empty net. You are discrediting the games we had against TOP TEAMS and were within a goal. Unfortunately, our poor goaltending was our achilles. I see plenty of close games against top teams. You only talk about the sh*tcago's and Anaheim Sucks or the Poo Jackets of the league. 

Vancouver held in there with everybody. Goaltending and the PK was the only difference. If Demko starts on time and not 30 games in, we are without a doubt a top team around the league. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by AnthonyG