[Discussion] Draft and Off Season Talk

[RUPERTKBD]

23 minutes ago, stawns said:

Short of cleaning house at the deadline, which I was on board with for miller and boeser, what else should they have done?  They iced an AHL dcorp for a good chunk of the last quarter of the season.........they got bubble Demko back and guys like Petey caught fire.

 

I do think they should have shipped Miller and Boeser out though

I would have kept BB until the end of the season. If Tocchet is really the guy you had to have, then you make a backroom deal with him, letting him know that he'll start the next season as HC. Maybe give him a "hockey operations" gig as a placeholder.

 

I too would have moved on from Miller and Boes and I said as much at the TDL. I have a hard time believing there was no market for either, especially if we retained salary.

 

Once it was clear that the season was lost, I would have given the Abby guys a real taste of the NHL, rather than playing my star players ridiculous minutes, knowing that it could do nothing but put the team in a worse draft position and increase the chances of those players being injured....

 

I didn't like the Hronek deal either.

 

I know CDC collectively believes he's the second coming of Nik Lidstrom, but to me, that remains to be seen. In my mind, giving up draft capital for roster players is a move you make when you're a playoff contender, not a bottom feeder. If you get to the draft and there's nobody you like at that spot, then you pull the trigger on a trade. Yes, Hronek might have been gone by that point, but if the Canucks' future hinges on having that one exact player, then we have much bigger issues. I think it's worth pointing out that we only have this pivotal player for one year at his current deal. If he really is the guy, we're going to have to pay him a lot more after next season.

 

In a nutshell, when there is a generational talent available in the draft (especially a home town talent) and you're in the bottom quarter of the league, management should wait until the offseason to make major moves to improve.

[RUPERTKBD]

24 minutes ago, kloubek said:

So what would it take to snatch Bedard from Chicago?

 

He's NHL ready, and Chicago isn't going to be competing for any cup any time soon. Seems to me they are still in asset acquiring mode, and will be for a couple of years.

 

I propose:
To Vancouver: 1 OA
To Chicago: 11 OA, Beauvillier, Raty, Rathbone, 2024 1st, 2025 2nd

 

Do you guys think something like that package could get it done? I almost think it's overpayment, but then, we're talking Bedard here.

 

Kuz Pettersson Mikheyev
Garland Miller Boeser

PDG/Dries Bedard Hoglander

Podz Studnika Joshua

Bedard is going to Chicago. As much as it sucks, nothing is going to change that....

[RUPERTKBD]

I'll add this point to my post above:

 

Keeping Boudreau on for the balance of the season would not only have helped maintain a better draft position, it would also not have made the franchise look like the clown show everyone saw it as, while the entire saga was underway.

 

That had to hurt the team's standing as a desirable destination for prospective players and coaches. I'm not saying it's a deal breaker, but it would be naive to think it has zero effect to a player making a decision on where he would like to play.

[Gawdzukes]

5 hours ago, spook007 said:

Yep... but as he is paid $4.4M already, that should leave a substantial sum to pay for Peteys next contract...

But Hronek also put us 4 mil over the cap and we're currently 1.5 over going in to next year so 3.5-4 mil will be going to pay Hronek leaving 2 for Petey ... and we now have to find a RD for $0 or less, or move contracts.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[Junkyard Dog]

1 hour ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I'll add this point to my post above:

 

Keeping Boudreau on for the balance of the season would not only have helped maintain a better draft position, it would also not have made the franchise look like the clown show everyone saw it as, while the entire saga was underway.

 

That had to hurt the team's standing as a desirable destination for prospective players and coaches. I'm not saying it's a deal breaker, but it would be naive to think it has zero effect to a player making a decision on where he would like to play.

They either should have made the coaching change earlier and try to battle for the playoffs or keep Boudreau. The way we went about it put us in no mans land. 

 

They were critiquing Boudreau since last off-season. He clearly wasn't there guy so it's not like they decided midway through the season. They could and should have made it earlier if they wanted a chance at playoffs this year.

[spook007]

15 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

But Hronek also put us 4 mil over the cap and we're currently 1.5 over going in to next year so 3.5-4 mil will be going to pay Hronek leaving 2 for Petey ... and we now have to find a RD for $0 or less, or move contracts.

I believe if nothing change as is, we are cap compliant?

Ferland, Baer and Dermot all going.

The year after Myers, Beau, Pearson (unless he is finished this year) all going...  

And if they still need money for some reason Buy out Garland or OEL if he doesn't improve

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by spook007

[Junkyard Dog]

8 minutes ago, spook007 said:

I believe if nothing change as is, we are cap compliant?

Dependant on injuries/LTIR and us not re-signing depth guys like Dermott, Bear, Schenn, etc. We could be compliant yeah. 

 

We'd have to lose a bit off our roster. We'd have to go pretty cheap in the backup G, extras bottom 6 and 3rd pair.

 

Meaning we'd lose some depth and wouldn't do anything to upgrade. 

 

If Poolman/Pearson come back then it creates problems.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Junkyard Dog

[Gawdzukes]

2 minutes ago, spook007 said:

I believe if nothing change as is, we are cap compliant?

I'll try to remember where I saw it posted but someone said they released the new cap figures yesterday (well they did I saw it ) and we're over by 1.5, the worst team in the league ... which is pathetic for a 22nd place club.  Relying on LTIR is silly too. That's like pretending you don't have to pay your credit card off. 

 

 

[spook007]

1 minute ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Dependant on injuries/LTIR and us not re-signing depth guys like Dermott, Bear, Schenn, etc. We could be compliant yeah. 

 

We'd have to lose a bit off our roster. We'd have to go cheap in the bottom 6 and 3rd pair.

 

Meaning we'd lose some depth and wouldn't do anything to upgrade. 

 

If Poolman/Pearson come back then it creates problems.

Yep absolutely true JD, but if Poolman or Pearson comes back expect Garland or Pearson to be bought out.

The upgrade has been made by signing Hronek.

 

Would like more upgrades on D, yes, but first priority is to not be forced into a corner, we can't get out of, and secondly, once we are not in that position, we may actually able to trade a player or two, should they wish to do so...

[Gurn]

15 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Ferland, Baer and Dermot all going.

Dermott and Bear are RFA  so kind of gone, or kind of here.

[spook007]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

I'll try to remember where I saw it posted but someone said they released the new cap figures yesterday (well they did I saw it ) and we're over by 1.5, the worst team in the league ... which is pathetic for a 22nd place club.  Relying on LTIR is silly too. That's like pretending you don't have to pay your credit card off. 

 

 

I did see the the list as well, but have been sold but others we are ok. 

Not going to argue in depth regarding our Cap as we know its no ideal, but main thing is we are not pushed into a corner.

Navigating the Cap was always going to be hard, with OELs life time contract, if he doesn't play up tom potential. Nothing much management can do about that.

 

And yes being in Cap trouble is crap as 22nd team, but changes had to be made, if they wanted to improve the team, without going full tank.

[Gawdzukes]

 

@spook007 Yeah we got to make some moves I believe. I have to scoff at the usuals claiming it's never a problem and every year it's a massive problem. This will be the worst yet. Making the team any better is a near impossible task as it stands.

 

This is from puckpedia by the way.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[spook007]

3 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Dermott and Bear are RFA  so kind of gone, or kind of here.

Well its up to management what to do with them?

 

Maybe they'll re-sign for less dollars, but if not I don't think we'll see either back.

[Junkyard Dog]

2 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Yep absolutely true JD, but if Poolman or Pearson comes back expect Garland or Pearson to be bought out.

The upgrade has been made by signing Hronek.

 

Would like more upgrades on D, yes, but first priority is to not be forced into a corner, we can't get out of, and secondly, once we are not in that position, we may actually able to trade a player or two, should they wish to do so...

We might have to suffer for a year without any upgrades made during the off-season and us having to rely on ELCs to fill out spots

 

Injuries during the season to key players may be felt much more due to the lack of depth. If we stay healthy we could probably compete for a playoff spot much we'd be on the bubble. Core would have to keep up a high level of play. Will be interesting to see how a full year without Horvat effects the sustainability of our star players and centers. We got a half-season sample size with an easier schedule to judge but adding another half year where you need others to pick up the scoring, minutes and faceoff duties against tougher opponents could affect longevity and could create potential for injury. Hence why a solid 3rd C is likely the reason of being on the managements radar. Probably want Miller/Petey to not burn out down the stretch. 

 

Biggest issue with this team is consistency and a biggest reason for that is lack of proper personnel. We need more defensive guys if we want to consistently have better defensive results(PK and goals against). Coach helps but coach needs to proper guys in the proper places to get the best results. 

 

It will be an interesting year but I wouldn't have crazy expectations unless they manage to clear cap(and how much) and make things interesting this off-season. 

[Gawdzukes]

19 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Well its up to management what to do with them?

 

Maybe they'll re-sign for less dollars, but if not I don't think we'll see either back.

I so hope they are both gone. Dermott was a crap move since day 1. He's brutal, Bear is not much better. Personally I don't want him back at any price but anything above league minimum is a mistake. He makes as bad of mistakes as Myers and he's tiny. He provides a tiny bit of offence as his strength which is something we don't even need.

[flat land fish]

We have a number of wingers garland, beaulivier, Boeser who are all tradeable what we get back might vary whether we retain a small % of their contract ie 20% ish.  Tyler Myers might even go to a team trying to get to the cap floor at some point.  The team was playing well without getting Hronek in the lineup.  If OEL can come back looking like year one OEL lots to be excited about.

[DrJockitch]

11 minutes ago, flat land fish said:

We have a number of wingers garland, beaulivier, Boeser who are all tradeable what we get back might vary whether we retain a small % of their contract ie 20% ish.  Tyler Myers might even go to a team trying to get to the cap floor at some point.  The team was playing well without getting Hronek in the lineup.  If OEL can come back looking like year one OEL lots to be excited about.

Not sure how tradeable without big retention and/or sweeteners (or cap back).

Unfortunately best thing to do is likely wait out Myers, give OEL a shot again and pray one of those wingers gets hot enough next year to be tradeable. 
As it it stands we have 2 small scoring wingers neither of which are even 20g scorers and aren’t the best defensively. One makes $4M  and one $5M. There is not much of a market for those players other than apparently in Vancouver.  We can move them but it will thin our already thin prospect and draft pool further. 
Much of what needs to happen probably should happen through attrition, waiting out Myers and Beau and looking to move Garland on tail end of deal. 
That being said I would bank on a desperate move to clear cap and expect the price will be next seasons first. The money will get spent quickly for a regrettable deal which will require more assets to be cleared the following season to make room for EP’s and Hronek’s new deals. 
Crazy way to run a team but that is us. 

Edited May 11, 2023 by DrJockitch

[Gawdzukes]

47 minutes ago, spook007 said:

I did see the the list as well, but have been sold but others we are ok. 

Not going to argue in depth regarding our Cap as we know its no ideal, but main thing is we are not pushed into a corner.

Navigating the Cap was always going to be hard, with OELs life time contract, if he doesn't play up tom potential. Nothing much management can do about that.

 

And yes being in Cap trouble is crap as 22nd team, but changes had to be made, if they wanted to improve the team, without going full tank.

I've heard that as well but I don't really believe those people lol. They are wrong every year. We can be cap compliant but we do have to ice the same crap team in order to do so. Personally I think we'd be better off burning a year and getting our finances in order but I'm afraid we're going to see prices paid to update the roster. While this could work my biggest worry is that we pull of some crazy moves and burn futures but only get marginally better while just creating more cap havoc down the road.

 

We'll have to see what they do as there are many ways to approach this. Like usual through cap is a massive concern and a major obstacle to the club moving forward.

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

@spook007 Yeah we got to make some moves I believe. I have to scoff at the usuals claiming it's never a problem and every year it's a massive problem. This will be the worst yet. Making the team any better is a near impossible task as it stands.

 

This is from puckpedia by the way.

 

 

You have some teams there in worse cap issues. 
Why bother about something that is easy fixed? 

 

[Gawdzukes]

Just now, Timråfan said:

You have some teams there in worse cap issues. 
Why bother about something that is easy fixed? 

 

Hmmm, I don't think there are. It's not easily fixed though, not by a long shot ... far from it. You have a major blind spot if you don't think we have cap problems. It's pretty simple to see.