11th overall pick in the 2023 Entry Draft

[-DLC-]

12 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I think part of the point he's trying to make is if your team sucks, like ours has the past (7-10) years you should hopefully be doing things like accumulating high picks, while not spending to the cap, and planning for the future. Detroit has done that quite well and we haven't. As such they have a far better prospect pool and one could argue a better platform to build a team. Not to say it guarantees them success or anything, they of course still have their challenges (lack our top end talent) but 5 picks in the top 43 this year is going to potentially set them up very nicely in addition to their already solid pipeline. I think any honest person would have to admit this.

 

I don't really think it adds value to have a pissing contest about who is better at being worse but there is definitely value in having high picks while you are building your team up from the bottom. As @wai_lai416 mentioned spending to the cap through Covid was a poor, short-sighted move that set the franchise back years. We should have been far better situated in terms of both prospects and cap expenditures. Unfortunately, those cards are played and we are left navigating through a bit of tricky times cap wise. Hopefully Allvin and Co pull it off.

So there's no value in having a pissing contest but you're joining forces and adding your points anyway?

 

Your words:

 

"Prospect" pool (which is just that...prospective not guaranteed. Better odds? Sure. Maybe)

 

"To build" (not built and proven...which is the point I'm trying to make. Until such time, they're no further ahead than anyone else)

 

"Not to say it guarantees them success or anything" (ding ding ding...we're getting closer. Well said, now keep that in mind)

 

"They have their challenges" (some speak as if they've got it all figured out but I'm not yet convined...I like proof)

 

"Lack our top end talent" (yep...and some ignore this part but I tend to think they matter as much as the unproven picks do)

 

"Up from the bottom" (isn't as common these days to tear things down and completely rebuild....everyone's fishing from the same pools and reliant on what other teams do to some degree)

 

Anyhow, you can join team wai_lai but your opinions are also just that. And there's a lot of "wait and see" with Detroit that is being touted as "the way" to do things. "A way", but there's no surefire guarantee when teams are comprised of individuals/human beings who have to play well together. We'll see I guess. So far, they're not really making strides that show improvement except on paper maybe.

 

 

 

 

[Baratheon]

4 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

"Lack our top end talent" (yep...and some ignore this part but I tend to think they matter as much as the unproven picks do)

I actually agree with this part.  We have the 3 most difficult things to find in hockey.  A top D, a top C and a top G.  But for me this is simply proof of the value that draft picks have.  How did we get Petey and Hughes?  What did we trade in order to get Miller and Hronek?  Most seem to agree that moving Bo was a good move.  Well guess how we got him?  

 

I like picks myself. 

[Alflives]

15 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I think part of the point he's trying to make is if your team sucks, like ours has the past (7-10) years you should hopefully be doing things like accumulating high picks, while not spending to the cap, and planning for the future. Detroit has done that quite well and we haven't. As such they have a far better prospect pool and one could argue a better platform to build a team. Not to say it guarantees them success or anything, they of course still have their challenges (lack our top end talent) but 5 picks in the top 43 this year is going to potentially set them up very nicely in addition to their already solid pipeline. I think any honest person would have to admit this.

 

I don't really think it adds value to have a pissing contest about who is better at being worse but there is definitely value in having high picks while you are building your team up from the bottom. As @wai_lai416 mentioned spending to the cap through Covid was a poor, short-sighted move that set the franchise back years. We should have been far better situated in terms of both prospects and cap expenditures. Unfortunately, those cards are played and we are left navigating through a bit of tricky times cap wise. Hopefully Allvin and Co pull it off.

Allvin did exactly what you’re suggesting needed to be done to make us better now and down the road. He moved Bo for the assets to get a 25 year old, elite right shot D. He also added a high end 20 year old centre prospect and a 25 year old winger who proved to mesh well on our top line. That’s brilliant GM work! 
We are better now and going forward. Detroit is much worse (as evidenced by the drastic fall without Hronek) and all they have is a magic bean they hope will develop into a player as Hronek is right now. Huge risk by Yzerboy. He already made one very public apology for this mistake. He isn’t going to get a chance to make another. He will be tossed to the curb just like what Tampa did to him. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

I actually agree with this part.  We have the 3 most difficult things to find in hockey.  A top D, a top C and a top G.  But for me this is simply proof of the value that draft picks have.  How did we get Petey and Hughes?  What did we trade in order to get Miller and Hronek?  Most seem to agree that moving Bo was a good move.  Well guess how we got him?  

 

I like picks myself. 

And picks, that are acquired like Allvin did in moving Bo, should be used (if the opportunity arises) to get elite missing core players who are young. There is this love for Yzerboy for building a bunch of picks in Detroit. Yet when he was in Tampa Yzerman traded players for picks and used those picks to get pieces the club was missing. The Tampa D that won those two recent Cups had only Hedman as their own draft pick. Winning teams aren’t built through only the draft. Heck. Vegas only had one player on their Cup team from their amateur draft. 
I like Miller but Benning used our own first to get him. Not a good move at that time. And then using another of our own firsts to get OEL and Garland was totally insane. 
Benning 

[Baratheon]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

And picks, that are acquired like Allvin did in moving Bo, should be used (if the opportunity arises) to get elite missing core players who are young. There is this love for Yzerboy for building a bunch of picks in Detroit. Yet when he was in Tampa Yzerman traded players for picks and used those picks to get pieces the club was missing. The Tampa D that won those two recent Cups had only Hedman as their own draft pick. Winning teams aren’t built through only the draft. Heck. Vegas only had one player on their Cup team from their amateur draft. 
I like Miller but Benning used our own first to get him. Not a good move at that time. And then using another of our own firsts to get OEL and Garland was totally insane. 
Benning 

The next 12 months will be absolutely massive for us.  We only have a few guys signed for the 24/25 season.  There are a lot of different ways this could go.  I'm excited for it but I can admit that I'm also very nervous. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

The next 12 months will be absolutely massive for us.  We only have a few guys signed for the 24/25 season.  There are a lot of different ways this could go.  I'm excited for it but I can admit that I'm also very nervous. 

Yup. Totally agree. IMHAO this summer's most important piece of work should be to sign Petey long term. I think using the Bo pick from the islanders to bring in Hronek helps with Petey’s seeing good moves. Add to that the OEL buyout and Petey sees the commitment the owner has to building the best team possible. Hopefully this all adds up to a Petey long term extension celebration soon! 

[Gawdzukes]

2 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

So there's no value in having a pissing contest but you're joining forces and adding your points anyway?

 

Your words:

 

"Prospect" pool (which is just that...prospective not guaranteed. Better odds? Sure. Maybe)

 

"To build" (not built and proven...which is the point I'm trying to make. Until such time, they're no further ahead than anyone else)

 

"Not to say it guarantees them success or anything" (ding ding ding...we're getting closer together)

 

"They have their challenges" (some speak as if they've got it all figured out but I'm not yet convined...I like proof)

 

"Lack our top end talent" (yep...and some ignore this part but I tend to think they matter as much as the unproven picks do)

 

"Up from the bottom" (isn't as common these days to tear things down and completely rebuild....everyone's fishing from the same pools and reliant on what other teams do to some degree)

 

Anyhow, you can join team wai_lai but your opinions are also just that. And there's a lot of "wait and see" with Detroit that is being touted as "the way". We'll see I guess. So far, they're not really making strides that show improvement except on paper maybe.

 

 

 

 

Fair enough. It's just semantics I think at this point. You have every right to see it how you want and describe it how you want. To me it's blatantly and simply obvious they have taken more steps to build their prospect pool up than we have. I would say they're further ahead in that sense, on paper or whatever words you choose, we can call it whatever you want. I'm not too interested in arguing about that part of it.

 

Nothing is guaranteed though as you say but I do envy that prospect pool and the hoard of top talent they are going to add to it. Can I say that and have it make sense without argument? I was in the middle of editing my last post when you replied. I was going to agree with you and say there are some very good reasons to be excited. We now have our best opportunity in years to actually ice a competitive playoff team, if we can add the right pieces. Finally, the cap is there, and we got rid of a huge road block on the back end.

[-DLC-]

7 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Fair enough. It's just semantics I think at this point. You have every right to see it how you want and describe it how you want. To me it's blatantly and simply obvious they have taken more steps to build their prospect pool up than we have. I would say they're further ahead in that sense, on paper or whatever words you choose, we can call it whatever you want. I'm not too interested in arguing about that part of it.

 

Nothing is guaranteed though as you say but I do envy that prospect pool and the hoard of top talent they are going to add to it. Can I say that and have it make sense without argument? I was in the middle of editing my last post when you replied. I was going to agree with you and say there are some very good reasons to be excited. We now have our best opportunity in years to actually ice a competitive playoff team, if we can add the right pieces. Finally, the cap is there, and we got rid of a huge road block on the back end.

That's the part that bothers me most....prospect pools are important. Do they have Petey, Quinn or Demko? They're important too. And having everything in place is likely AS important as the pool of potentials. Your last part is the part that some don't focus on (at all), so thank you for at least putting out a balanced opinion. Not just one sided in that we're failing miserably and Detroit is not.

 

Truth be told, I know NOTHING about prospects and don't care until they do slide in to the NHL, where it can be a tougher gig. I remember Gilbert Brule. Alexis Lafreniere is already being dropped in the hot topic department yet...not long ago.

 

So it's about understanding that prospects, even by the numbers, don't guarantee a team is further ahead until it's realized. They have potential but it has to successfully play out before you can call it success.

 

Cheers.

[Baratheon]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup. Totally agree. IMHAO this summer's most important piece of work should be to sign Petey long term. I think using the Bo pick from the islanders to bring in Hronek helps with Petey’s seeing good moves. Add to that the OEL buyout and Petey sees the commitment the owner has to building the best team possible. Hopefully this all adds up to a Petey long term extension celebration soon! 

For sure.  I would prefer to get Hronek done this summer as well (before his value goes up) but he/his agent will probably want to wait.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Fair enough. It's just semantics I think at this point. You have every right to see it how you want and describe it how you want. To me it's blatantly and simply obvious they have taken more steps to build their prospect pool up than we have. I would say they're further ahead in that sense, on paper or whatever words you choose, we can call it whatever you want. I'm not too interested in arguing about that part of it.

 

Nothing is guaranteed though as you say but I do envy that prospect pool and the hoard of top talent they are going to add to it. Can I say that and have it make sense without argument? I was in the middle of editing my last post when you replied. I was going to agree with you and say there are some very good reasons to be excited. We now have our best opportunity in years to actually ice a competitive playoff team, if we can add the right pieces. Finally, the cap is there, and we got rid of a huge road block on the back end.

The thing is screw Detroit and all the other clubs. Vegas just won the Cup and they had only one player from their a mature draft. The got their most important players (Stone, Eichel, Pietrangelo) from trades and free agency. Draft picks and prospects are great to have but they need to be used to make the club better. Allvin made us a lot better by trading Bo for the pick (and he got more too) that got us a 25 year old, elite right shot D. That’s how to build a winner. 

[-DLC-]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The thing is screw Detroit and all the other clubs. Vegas just won the Cup and they had only one player from their a mature draft. The got their most important players (Stone, Eichel, Pietrangelo) from trades and free agency. Draft picks and prospects are great to have but they need to be used to make the club better. Allvin made us a lot better by trading Bo for the pick (and he got more too) that got us a 25 year old, elite right shot D. That’s how to build a winner. 

Yes!

 

Although I really HATE this saying: "there's more than one way to skin....."

[Baratheon]

2 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Yes!

 

Although I really HATE this saying: "there's more than one way to skin....."

[Gawdzukes]

6 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

That's the part that bothers me most....prospect pools are important. Do they have Petey, Quinn or Demko? They're important too. And having everything in place is likely AS important as the pool of potentials. Your last part is the part that some don't focus on (at all), so thank you for at least putting out a balanced opinion. Not just one sided in that we're failing miserably and Detroit is not.

 

Truth be told, I know NOTHING about prospects and don't care until they do slide in to the NHL, where it can be a tougher gig. I remember Gilbert Brule. Alexis Lafreniere is already being dropped in the hot topic department yet...not long ago.

 

So it's about understanding that prospects, even by the numbers, don't put guarantee a team is further ahead until it's realized.

 

Cheers.

 

Cheers Deb.

 

Don't get me wrong. I like Detroit's prospect pool and wish we would have done a bit more long term planning (like no OEL and Garland trade, less yearly spending), however I wouldn't trade our situation and Petey, Hughes, Demko, Kuzmenko, for it either. I love these guys. We are not Detroit, we are Canucks.

 

Let's go ... I'm really hoping we get a stud player at #11 and he's in the line-up sooner than later. Best of both worlds for us!

[Gawdzukes]

24 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The thing is screw Detroit and all the other clubs. Vegas just won the Cup and they had only one player from their a mature draft. The got their most important players (Stone, Eichel, Pietrangelo) from trades and free agency. Draft picks and prospects are great to have but they need to be used to make the club better. Allvin made us a lot better by trading Bo for the pick (and he got more too) that got us a 25 year old, elite right shot D. That’s how to build a winner. 

There are many different ways to build a team and your point that most winning teams don't have a tonne of their own draft picks is a valid point. Vegas probably isn't the best example though. They've only been in existence for 6 years so they don't have a lot of their own picks yet. You could kind of look at the expansion draft as their draft picks.

 

Oh yeah I almost forgot ... F@&K Detroit. 

[GhostsOf1994]

Personally Im a fan of the 3 big trades the canucks have swung including 1st rounders the last several years as the addressed major needs.

 

Jt miller for mazanec, 1st20 oa (shakir Mukhamadullin) 3rd/71 Hugo Alnelft.

 

Miller is a wicked 2c and personally really like his game, demeanor and on ice play. with the canucks, 283gp for 299pts, playoffs 17gp for 18pts.

 

the picks/ players traded to aquire Jt have yet to make the NHL after 4 years.

 

 

Horvat/ 25% retained for 30gpwoth NYI for for Beauvillier, Raty and a 1st.

 

Horvat didn't keep up his torrid point streak after the trade and performed poorly for NYI in the playoffs. 

 

30gp for 16pts and -4 after trade, playoffs 6gp 2pts +2 (the goal was a breakaway while getting blown out)

 

with the canucks he had 49gp for 54pts, Is it the player or the new team that is over rated?

 

Beauvillier before trade 49gp 20pts -4 after the trade 33gp for 20pts -6

Raty was NYI top prospect, he's still only 20.

the NYI first was acquired and used in a other trade to shore up holes onnthe nhl roster 

 

a 1st/17oa and a 2nd/43oa for Hronek, a 40pt top 4 rhd just entering his prime at age 25. 

 

summary

 

out 1st/20 oa, 2nd/43oa, 3rd/71st oa, mazanec and Horvat

 

in

 

Jt Miller, Beauvillier, Raty and Hronek

 

thats a great fandangling by canucks management.

 

Now onto the 11th oa

 

If there's a trade to be made that includes the 11oa for say a top rhd to pair with Hughes for the foreseeable future then hopefully GraMPA can make it happen.

 

if no trade is available then draft the best player available, develop and perhaps trade down the line as he develops. (likely a few years away from nhl anyways)

 

canucks window is fast approaching and I'd prefer a trade that brings in a player who can contribute next season vs 3+ years with a player from the upcoming draft.

 

 

[wai_lai416]

2 hours ago, -DLC- said:

No one really knows when they'll hit their stride and until they prove they had the timing right on their window, you can't really tout their "success".

 

And the highlighted part isn't really true.

 

I've been at games where we beat the Avs (we've beat them the last 3 out of 4 times we've played them), Tampa (yes, they've beat us but a few games recently were by 1 goal...hardly blow outs), we gave Vegas a good go (thanks Demko) after beating the Wild and Blues in the playoffs. People slough that off but it's not really "falling face first into the mud". This team dug itself out of HUGE hole and that, in itself, was something worth noting. Yes...they put themselves there to begin with but they're not what you say they are. 

 

So no.

 

And your take is that Detroit is "less embarrassing" "because". Until they do something they're doing nothing (too).

and what part of that is not true??

 

we are 14-21-2 in 2021 against playoff teams 15-19-8 last season against playoff teams 14-26-2 this season against playoff teams

[hockeyfan-observer]

1 hour ago, -DLC- said:

That's the part that bothers me most....prospect pools are important. Do they have Petey, Quinn or Demko? They're important too. And having everything in place is likely AS important as the pool of potentials. Your last part is the part that some don't focus on (at all), so thank you for at least putting out a balanced opinion. Not just one sided in that we're failing miserably and Detroit is not.

 

Truth be told, I know NOTHING about prospects and don't care until they do slide in to the NHL, where it can be a tougher gig. I remember Gilbert Brule. Alexis Lafreniere is already being dropped in the hot topic department yet...not long ago.

 

So it's about understanding that prospects, even by the numbers, don't guarantee a team is further ahead until it's realized. They have potential but it has to successfully play out before you can call it success.

 

Cheers.

So very true in your assessment about prospects - factors such as quality of supporting cast, player development, team identity and team culture play such vital role,  I would suspect even McD would not have had the astronomical point total he had without Draisatil and / or if he was playing in a defensive structure like the old J. Lemaire coaching days.. From playing against peers in your age+2  group, to against men fighting for jobs and salary - its a significant jump..  Also, most of the roster players in the NHL have had  some success in the junior ranks so now its the cream at the top battling each other.

 

I hope the Canucks pick the BPA on Wednesday - almost all the potential picks they are considering will take 2-3 years before they "may" play here so might as well go the BPA route.   Be careful of Michkov's if he is available though - don't want any further contract factors holding up his career.

 

For this season, success will probably depend on who's ready from Abby, college and some FAs on July 1st I think.

[Junkyard Dog]

Prospect capital doesn’t necessarily mean we just get cheaper contracts. It means we have assets to make trades as well. Many different types of trades. 
 

Having a good prospect pool extends the window of playoff teams in more than one way. That’s why it is important. 

 

[SilentSam]

I see this young man has dropped in the latest draft ratings ( who cares).

 

If this big RHD is available at 11 ,   It’s got to be the guy..

 

 

 

 

Tracks quickly, shuts down physically, powerful skating and agility ..   16 yrs, 6’4 205 

[5nothincanucksohno]

59 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

I see this young man has dropped in the latest draft ratings ( who cares).

 

If this big RHD is available at 11 ,   It’s got to be the guy..

 

 

 

 

Tracks quickly, shuts down physically, powerful skating and agility ..   16 yrs, 6’4 205 

Or at #15 plus Nashville's #46/47 and Sissons?

Edited June 26, 2023 by 5nothincanucksohno