RWJC Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, wildcam said: I thinking Buffalo, Ottawa will be the front runners and both teams are loaded with prospect and on verge of playoff runs.. Hart would fit perfect in Buffalo and Ottawa both teams are going to be very good soon.. Buffalo looking at Hellebuyck. WPG will be interesting to watch…lots of “core” pieces potentially on the hot seat. Edited June 7, 2023 by RWJC 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 9 hours ago, qwijibo said: I honestly don’t think he’s better than Montembeault at this point. He’s regressed since his break out season. Montembeault looked good and at times great last season behind a mostly rookie defence. He also looked good at the worlds leading Canada to gold. I can’t see wasting cap space and assets in Hart when they have Montembeault and Allen Good goalie, bad team in front of him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 18 minutes ago, aGENT said: Good goalie, bad team in front of him. I don't think Hart is gonna be traded. I think the price is just gonna be way too high for teams to pull the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, aGENT said: Good goalie, bad team in front of him. Montembeault s advanced stats are all slightly better than Hart’s. Better goals saved above expected. Goals saved above expected/60. and a number of other stats that factor in shot quality. He’s not substantially better. But it’s close enough to be comfortable moving forward with Montembeault over giving up assets to get Hart Edited June 7, 2023 by qwijibo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 47 minutes ago, qwijibo said: Montembeault s advanced stats are all slightly better than Hart’s. Better goals saved above expected. Goals saved above expected/60. and a number of other stats that factor in shot quality. He’s not substantially better. But it’s close enough to be comfortable moving forward with Montembeault over giving up assets to get Hart The Flyers were an absolute tire fire, if not for Hart they would be quite possibly the worst or second worst team in the league. So no, Hart is a better goalie with a completely garbage team in front of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 15 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: The Flyers were an absolute tire fire, if not for Hart they would be quite possibly the worst or second worst team in the league. So no, Hart is a better goalie with a completely garbage team in front of him. The stats I posted factor shot quality and by extension team strength in. Also. Montreal lost overt 750 msn games to injury and dressed mostly a rookie/AHL call-up D all year. Montembeault and Hart’s advanced stats are very similar. So close that it makes zero sense to give up significant assets to trade for Hart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 16 minutes ago, qwijibo said: The stats I posted factor shot quality and by extension team strength in. Also. Montreal lost overt 750 msn games to injury and dressed mostly a rookie/AHL call-up D all year. Montembeault and Hart’s advanced stats are very similar. So close that it makes zero sense to give up significant assets to trade for Hart. Having watched both Hart is the better goalie and with a good team infront of him has proven to be borderline elite. Hab fans tend to overvalue their players though so I do get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Having watched both Hart is the better goalie and with a good team infront of him has proven to be borderline elite. Hab fans tend to overvalue their players though so I do get it. Ignore the advanced stats if you like. I’m not saying Montembeault is better. Only that Hart isn’t a big enough upgrade to waste valuable assets on. Montembeault showed flashes of excellence last season and looks primed to take a step forward. And every team’s fans overvalues their players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 8 minutes ago, qwijibo said: Ignore the advanced stats if you like. I’m not saying Montembeault is better. Only that Hart isn’t a big enough upgrade to waste valuable assets on. Montembeault showed flashes of excellence last season and looks primed to take a step forward. And every team’s fans overvalues their players. Hart has proven to be elite/borderline elite with a team that is not utter garbage in front of him. Montembeault has not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 14 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Hart has proven to be elite/borderline elite with a team that is not utter garbage in front of him. Montembeault has not. There has been nothing elite about Hart for the past 3 seasons 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 12 minutes ago, qwijibo said: There has been nothing elite about Hart for the past 3 seasons There's been nothing elite about Montembeault ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: There's been nothing elite about Montembeault ever Yet their advanced stats are very similar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 34 minutes ago, qwijibo said: The stats I posted factor shot quality and by extension team strength in. Also. Montreal lost overt 750 msn games to injury and dressed mostly a rookie/AHL call-up D all year. Montembeault and Hart’s advanced stats are very similar. So close that it makes zero sense to give up significant assets to trade for Hart. Not sure it's really possible to draw that kind of conclusion off a static model. The model is based off shot location but shot quality is also influenced by screens, pre-shot movements, shooting options - none of that is captured. The overall model at the league level is fairly accurate but once you start breaking it down to smaller pieces (by goalies or games) there can be some wild swings. 2 shots from the exact same location can have completely different conversion chances but the model only comes up with 1 number for that shooting location. If there are multiple screens, if it comes off the rush, if there's a cross-seam pass it's a much higher conversion rate than if the goalie is square to the shooter and seeing it all the way through. The formula is based off shot location so there's an average for the location when in fact it's a range based on context of the shot. The more shots the goalies faces the more likely that he'll face different type of shots from a specific location so the average is going to balance out but in small samples it can really get out of whack. Montreal uses Sportlogiq for their tracking and actually hired one of the guys that helped develop that technology to their analytics team under Gorton/Hughes. If they ever go after Hart or any other goalie it's probably because they had information that public models can't necessarily capture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieVedder Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 whoever gets Hart is going to get a goalie with superstar potential that hasn't even come close to realizing his potential yet. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Buffalo makes the most sense, they are have tons of good prospects but have had terrible goaltending for a while now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 3 hours ago, qwijibo said: Montembeault s advanced stats are all slightly better than Hart’s. Better goals saved above expected. Goals saved above expected/60. and a number of other stats that factor in shot quality. He’s not substantially better. But it’s close enough to be comfortable moving forward with Montembeault over giving up assets to get Hart I was more countering your "he's regressed" talk. He hasn't, he's just had a garbage team in front of him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 23 hours ago, Citizen Erased said: Way to intentionally tank it next season. If this were the Canucks, the league would intervene and discipline them. nah the league won't intervene coz they know the canucks will never tank coz their goal is to be mediocre for decades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 Just now, wai_lai416 said: nah the league won't intervene coz they know the canucks will never tank coz their goal is to be mediocre for decades Be fair. Jim Benning was only here for 7 years not a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 20 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Be fair. Jim Benning was only here for 7 years not a decade. but ownership have been here for more than a decade :D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 Montreal is not interested in adding Carter Hart New Philadelphia Flyers GM Daniel Brière has told anyone willing to listen that he is willing to take offers on any of his players, including goaltender Carter Hart. The 24-year-old goalie would be an interesting addition as he is still progressing and could develop into one of the top goalies in the NHL. But even if his age and the Canadiens’ desire to strengthen the organization at the goaltending position could make Hart an interesting target, we’re told the Canadiens will not be exploring this avenue. The exact reason is not entirely clear, but we were told it was a “non-starter.” from an article penned by Arpon Basu. He covers the Canadiens and is very well connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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