Who is your All-American Team? (can it beat Canada?)

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

@Elias Pettersson's thread got me thinking.  The most improved nation since the 2010 Olympics is probably the United States.  We (Canada) lost to them once and barely beat them a second time.  Now their team is stacked from top to bottom.  They have Hart winners.  They have Norris winners.  They have Vezina winners.  And they're a lot younger.  Their goaltending is so elite I don't even think Thatcher makes the first team.  For fun, I'll construct an A-team and a B-team (no extra players).  Assume there's a tournament in six months and everyone's healthy again.

 

Robertson - J. Hughes - M. Tkachuk

B. Tkachuk - Matthews - Thompson

J. Miller - Eichel - Gaudreau

Boldy - Pavelski - Tuch

 

Q. Hughes - Fox

Slavin - McAvoy

Werenski - Carlson

 

Hellebuyck

Oettinger

 

 

Keller - Larkin - Connor

DeBrincat - Zegras - Terry

Kreider - Beniers - Guentzel

Coleman - Nelson - Garland

 

Hanifin - S. Jones

K. Miller - Pesce

Sanderson - McCabe

 

Demko - Swayman

Edited August 19, 2023 by Bob.Loblaw
I forgot Eichel because I'm an idiot

[Ghostsof1915]

Perfect example of what I was mentioning in the Canadian thread. The US has more depth on Defence and Goal than Canada. Canada does have higher end Forwards. But the gap between the two have narrowed considerably.

 

I'm still thinking it's due to the expense of hockey and equipment. Climate and culture has changed as well. I don't think we have as long or cold of winters. The days of kids getting outside and skating on a frozen pond or lake and playing until it got dark out. You still see some kids playing street hockey. But now there's other activities kids can do.

Is there any small community rinks that just have free ice sessions to let kids play shinny or a simple pick up game?

 

I proposed years ago, we have a system of hockey development done through our schools. They buy equipment on consignment so it's always last years, or 2 year old equipment. Have a development system starting in Grade 6-7. Only one game a week, and practice sessions learning skills and the basics. Grade 8 (Level A) you learn more advanced skills and introduce systems and go to 1 game one week, 2 games the next. Grades 9-10 (Level AA) you start allow hitting, and teaching advanced systems and improve skills and go to a 40 game (2 games a week) schedule. Grades 11-12  (AAA level) prepares you to try to make college teams (Maybe to to 5 games every two weeks). Allow sponsorship to improve funding. Because it's a scholastic program you can have no fighting and full face helmets. At least more kids would get a chance to play hockey than they otherwise would allow. Maybe it will improve the NHL draft even if it's someone in the later rounds.

 

There should be more of a push to have our Canadian Colleges and Universities trying to attract more talent. And themselves develop players. When's the last time a Canadian University had a phenom playing for them?

[Elias Pettersson]

I think Canada beats the USA, even with our goaltending.  McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby, Bedard and Makar would be too much for the Americans...

Edited August 19, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Sean Monahan]

Kyle Connor would likely make the American A team, wouldn't he? 10th in goals over the last 3 seasons with Matthews, Kreider, and Robertson being the only Americans ahead of him.

[Phil_314]

21 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I think Canada beats the USA, even with our goaltending.  McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby, Bedard and Makar would be too much for the Americans...

The American team might not have that depth of elite firepower just yet (although it's getting close with Robertson/ Matthews/ prime J. Hughes/ Tage), but if it's a playoff style game and they really stacked their defensive guys on the back end (or their goalies stood on their heads) and they found a couple Cs with defensive ability (probably a major hole in the roster at the moment - Larkin's the only C in that group who played 1st unit PK, JT Miller and Tuch played 2nd unit) it'd be quite tough to beat them.  Even now it'll be a high scoring track meet given how questionable Canada's goalies are. 

Edit: even if it's best on best, for utility purposes maybe stash Brock Nelson (or Coleman) in their 4th line to really shore things up in their own end, since the rest of the lineup already has so much firepower.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Phil_314

[Phil_314]

Just realized Eichel isn't on either team, which I think he ought to be?  He led VGK in scoring during their championship run, nothing like having big game performers for hypothetical tournaments like this IMO.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

21 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Perfect example of what I was mentioning in the Canadian thread. The US has more depth on Defence and Goal than Canada. Canada does have higher end Forwards. But the gap between the two have narrowed considerably.

 

I'm still thinking it's due to the expense of hockey and equipment. Climate and culture has changed as well. I don't think we have as long or cold of winters. The days of kids getting outside and skating on a frozen pond or lake and playing until it got dark out. You still see some kids playing street hockey. But now there's other activities kids can do.

Is there any small community rinks that just have free ice sessions to let kids play shinny or a simple pick up game?

 

I proposed years ago, we have a system of hockey development done through our schools. They buy equipment on consignment so it's always last years, or 2 year old equipment. Have a development system starting in Grade 6-7. Only one game a week, and practice sessions learning skills and the basics. Grade 8 (Level A) you learn more advanced skills and introduce systems and go to 1 game one week, 2 games the next. Grades 9-10 (Level AA) you start allow hitting, and teaching advanced systems and improve skills and go to a 40 game (2 games a week) schedule. Grades 11-12  (AAA level) prepares you to try to make college teams (Maybe to to 5 games every two weeks). Allow sponsorship to improve funding. Because it's a scholastic program you can have no fighting and full face helmets. At least more kids would get a chance to play hockey than they otherwise would allow. Maybe it will improve the NHL draft even if it's someone in the later rounds.

 

There should be more of a push to have our Canadian Colleges and Universities trying to attract more talent. And themselves develop players. When's the last time a Canadian University had a phenom playing for them?

I've been really impressed with USA Hockey lately.  Star players are popping out of random states and not just the northeast.  The women's team has already surpassed us in depth a while ago.  

 

For us, here's the problem with your proposal: Hockey Canada.  Everything needs to be done through Hockey Canada.  Working with provincial hockey associations.  Equipment sponsorships.  Government support.  Public support.  Competent leadership and vision.  All of that is nonexistent right now.

 

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I think Canada beats the USA, even with our goaltending.  McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby, Bedard and Makar would be too much for the Americans...

Maybe.  But I think Matthews, Robertson, the Tkachuks/Hughes and Fox match them man for man.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

29 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

Kyle Connor would likely make the American A team, wouldn't he? 10th in goals over the last 3 seasons with Matthews, Kreider, and Robertson being the only Americans ahead of him.

Sure.  But the A team has enough pure scorers and I wanted to fill the bottom six with two-way players.

 

19 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

Just realized Eichel isn't on either team, which I think he ought to be?  He led VGK in scoring during their championship run, nothing like having big game performers for hypothetical tournaments like this IMO.

Holy Jesus what am I doing hahahaha

[Citizen Erased]

12 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Sure.  But the A team has enough pure scorers and I wanted to fill the bottom six with two-way players.

 

Holy Jesus what am I doing hahahaha

Yeah, The A-Team is tough as nails. 

[IBatch]

48 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

Just realized Eichel isn't on either team, which I think he ought to be?  He led VGK in scoring during their championship run, nothing like having big game performers for hypothetical tournaments like this IMO.

Don't worry, they also, for the opposite of that Boblaw had Mathews. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I think Canada beats the USA, even with our goaltending.  McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby, Bedard and Makar would be too much for the Americans...

Like usual, Canada has a plethora of centers.  Our goalies ... and D.  Not keeping up have to agree.   That said, until things change, Canada will always have the IT factor.   18 Canadians 2 US players on the last championship team, give Vegas full credit.    They knew right from the start where they wanted to go and did it.   We experienced that in the bubble.   And it wasn't quite there yet.  To me it's Crosby until it isn't.   He's the guy.   And Stone until his body can't do it anymore too.   Everyone wants to beat Canada.   And i've been mad at them since 1996.   So blah.   Have they won a gold medal? Well they had their miracle.  

Edited August 19, 2023 by IBatch

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Phil_314 said:

The American team might not have that depth of elite firepower just yet (although it's getting close with Robertson/ Matthews/ prime J. Hughes/ Tage), but if it's a playoff style game and they really stacked their defensive guys on the back end (or their goalies stood on their heads) and they found a couple Cs with defensive ability (probably a major hole in the roster at the moment - Larkin's the only C in that group who played 1st unit PK, JT Miller and Tuch played 2nd unit) it'd be quite tough to beat them.  Even now it'll be a high scoring track meet given how questionable Canada's goalies are. 

Edit: even if it's best on best, for utility purposes maybe stash Brock Nelson (or Coleman) in their 4th line to really shore things up in their own end, since the rest of the lineup already has so much firepower.

I have my All-Canadian 4th line as follows:

 

Anthony Cirelli     Phillip Danault     Mark Stone

 

That is easily the best 4th line in world hockey...

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

17 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Like usual, Canada has a plethora of centers.  Our goalies ... and D.  Not keeping up have to agree.   That said, until things change, Canada will always have the IT factor.   18 Canadians 2 US players on the last championship team, give Vegas full credit.    They knew right from the start where they wanted to go and did it.   We experienced that in the bubble.   And it wasn't quite there yet.  To me it's Crosby until it isn't.   He's the guy.   And Stone until his body can't do it anymore too.   Everyone wants to beat Canada.   And i've been mad at them since 1996.   So blah.   Have they won a gold medal? Well they had their miracle.  

A perfect example of this is the difference between Canadian women's team and the American women's team.  No doubt about it - the Americans are younger, faster, stronger and more talented than us.  But even though they always beat us prelimnaries, they've got a horrendous record against us in gold medal games.  Maybe the Americans are chokers, or maybe we're just more clutch?

[IBatch]

13 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

A perfect example of this is the difference between Canadian women's team and the American women's team.  No doubt about it - the Americans are younger, faster, stronger and more talented than us.  But even though they always beat us prelimnaries, they've got a horrendous record against us in gold medal games.  Maybe the Americans are chokers, or maybe we're just more clutch?

I wouldn't do Canadian women's hockey like that.    Unless you're talking recently.    But yes, Canada IS the country to beat.  I grew up the US wasn't even on the radar.  It was all about Canada vs the Soviets/Russia.     US even in 1996 needed Brett Hull, but will give it to them (and Suter, that team was full of a-holes, but it's not like we couldn't play that style all along either).     Until we actually get surpassed, which yes, it's going to happen just too many US citizens, it's still us against the world.    Men's or Women's hockey.    Rarely, as in never so far including Hull in 96, has the US iced a better team.  So wouldn't call that clutch for Men's hockey anyways.   Women's hockey you can't even do that, no real league.  So who the heck knows. 

Edited August 19, 2023 by IBatch

[shiznak]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Perfect example of what I was mentioning in the Canadian thread. The US has more depth on Defence and Goal than Canada. Canada does have higher end Forwards. But the gap between the two have narrowed considerably.

 

 

How does US have more depth on defence?

 

This was my team Canada defensive core. Which doesn’t even include guys like Doughty, Hamilton (in the top 6), Chychrun (in the top 6), Chabot, Dunn, Morrissey, Montour, Ekblad, Burns, Dobson, Nurse, Letang, Reilly, Spurgeon, Weegar, etc who all can make a case on the team.

 

Spoiler

Toews - Makar

Theodore - Pietrangelo

Pelech - Pulock

Chychru - Hamilton

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by shiznak

[IBatch]

44 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I have my All-Canadian 4th line as follows:

 

Anthony Cirelli     Phillip Danault     Mark Stone

 

That is easily the best 4th line in world hockey...

Stone on the 4th line says enough.  Cups are cups.  Thanks Ovi for one of the best sound bites ever.   Way before he won one.   Maybe do Russia instead, i'm still not over 1996. 

Edited August 19, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

I've been really impressed with USA Hockey lately.  Star players are popping out of random states and not just the northeast.  The women's team has already surpassed us in depth a while ago.  

 

For us, here's the problem with your proposal: Hockey Canada.  Everything needs to be done through Hockey Canada.  Working with provincial hockey associations.  Equipment sponsorships.  Government support.  Public support.  Competent leadership and vision.  All of that is nonexistent right now.

 

Maybe.  But I think Matthews, Robertson, the Tkachuks/Hughes and Fox match them man for man.

That's no cups versus a lot of cups.  Don't think so.   And QHs, know he's our guy, was recently voted behind Seider for 23 and unders as in who is going to be the best D of those group of guys, it's not just about PP points and moving the puck ahead.   Jack Hughes.   Well sure he's good too.   But he's not McDavid or McKinnon or Crosby.   Mathews, he's yet to do anything in the post season.  He's the worst superstar in his generation for doing absolutely nothing when it counts.   Mathews is the Phil Housley of his generation without the excuse of a tiny body. 

 

Edit:  I'm completely biased though.  Screw the US.   And their hockey program.  And well I like Miller, Brock and QHs, when it comes to this stuff, they can all go suck eggs. 

Edited August 19, 2023 by IBatch

[Phil_314]

44 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I have my All-Canadian 4th line as follows:

 

Anthony Cirelli     Phillip Danault     Mark Stone

 

That is easily the best 4th line in world hockey...

That is pretty strong.  In my original post I was trying to come up with a match-up line for the States to counter the Canadian elite stars but that seems difficult to come anywhere near this caliber.

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

That is pretty strong.  In my original post I was trying to come up with a match-up line for the States to counter the Canadian elite stars but that seems difficult to come anywhere near this caliber.

Sure would be.   I remember Morrow getting a spot over a bunch of stars.   Brendan Morrow.   You can't build a team without building the lines as well.   Will say, that this is probably the first time in Canada's history, that you can't build two teams and the "B" team wouldn't wax the best of the rest.  Times are changing.   As in decade to decade. 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I have my All-Canadian 4th line as follows:

 

Anthony Cirelli     Phillip Danault     Mark Stone

 

That is easily the best 4th line in world hockey...

 

41 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

That is pretty strong.  In my original post I was trying to come up with a match-up line for the States to counter the Canadian elite stars but that seems difficult to come anywhere near this caliber.

I will try.  Stone indeed makes that 4th line something else.

 

 

 

If we were to make the best shutdown line, I think it's Finland.  Hintz - Barkov - Lehkonen would obviously not be 4th line, but nobody would ever score on them.

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Bob.Loblaw