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[DEBATE] Who is the greatest goaltender in NHL history?

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Elias Pettersson
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Who is the greatest goaltender in NHL history?  

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IBatch Canucks Hall-of-Famer

IBatch

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29 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Brodeur hands down. 

 

HM 

Roy, Sawchuk, Plante, Hasek. 

Umm.  Hands down is a bit much.   Hasek had the best stretch of goaltending i've ever seen and I saw Broduer, Belfour, Roy ... and Hasek.   Roy was better than all of them when it mattered, and pretty darn good when it didn't matter too.    Can't look at just stats.    It's not hands down at all.   Roy had to win game six, and game seven and did it just before retirement against peak prime Broduer.   Only player any position to win 3 Conn Smythes.  And guess what - just like Haseks, Belfours, Broduer, his save percentage went up and up ... why is that?

 

Even recently added (and rightly so) Mike Vernon, playing for a pretty mediocre Florida team before retirement - had a .920ish Sp).   Put those goalies against different shooters and a different system and see how it goes.    Plante and Sawchuk for sure deserve props so kudos.  Martin Broduer was great.  His best season IMO was late in his career when his team wasn't so good, and he put it on his back and went to the final.   Roy did that in 1993 like nobody i've seen before or since.  

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canuck73_3 Canucks Hall-of-Famer

canuck73_3

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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Umm.  Hands down is a bit much.   Hasek had the best stretch of goaltending i've ever seen and I saw Broduer, Belfour, Roy ... and Hasek.   Roy was better than all of them when it mattered, and pretty darn good when it didn't matter too.    Can't look at just stats.    It's not hands down at all.   Roy had to win game six, and game seven and did it just before retirement against peak prime Broduer.   Only player any position to win 3 Conn Smythes.  And guess what - just like Haseks, Belfours, Broduer, his save percentage went up and up ... why is that?

 

Even recently added (and rightly so) Mike Vernon, playing for a pretty mediocre Florida team before retirement - had a .920ish Sp).   Put those goalies against different shooters and a different system and see how it goes.    Plante and Sawchuk for sure deserve props so kudos.  Martin Broduer was great.  His best season IMO was late in his career when his team wasn't so good, and he put it on his back and went to the final.   Roy did that in 1993 like nobody i've seen before or since.  

As mentioned earlier, GP, Wins, GAA, SO speaks volumes in his favour.

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canuck73_3 Canucks Hall-of-Famer

canuck73_3

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1 hour ago, Citizen Erased said:

I bet the author of the thread deliberately titled it “best goaltender in NHL all time” , so nobody would say Tretiak.

Not sure if that was the intent, but yeah he's definitely in the discussion of best when you drop NHL from that sentence

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Alflives Canucks Hall-of-Famer

Alflives

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4 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Not sure if that was the intent, but yeah he's definitely in the discussion of best when you drop NHL from that sentence

Tretiak was an okay goalie playing behind a great club. My guess is you didn’t watch him play. The guy wasn’t anything special. Average at best. 

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Citizen Erased Canucks Third-Line

Citizen Erased

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1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Tretiak was an okay goalie playing behind a great club. My guess is you didn’t watch him play. The guy wasn’t anything special. Average at best. 

I don’t know about that. He was considered the best goalie not playing in the NHL.

 

You are right about one thing sort of thought. While I have seen some clips from the summit series, I haven’t seen a lot of him. Being born in 1981 doesn’t help.

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canuck73_3 Canucks Hall-of-Famer

canuck73_3

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1 minute ago, Citizen Erased said:

I don’t know about that. He was considered the best goalie not playing in the NHL.

 

You are right about one thing sort of thought. While I have seen some clips from the summit series, I haven’t seen a lot of him. Being born in 1981 doesn’t help.

Yup 84 here so my experience with him is archive footage. But saying he wasn't anything special is a reach. 

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IBatch Canucks Hall-of-Famer

IBatch

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On 8/24/2023 at 6:43 PM, Rick_theRyper said:

Martin Brodeur gets my vote 

Broduer was great no doubt.  But when it comes to being good regular season and playoffs, Roy is a tier above.   No way does MTL win a cup in 92-93 without him.   Same with COL.   Roy beat Broduer head to head too, and before anyone says "those NJ teams couldn't score" They led the league in goals scored one of their cup years (regular season).   There were other goalies in his era like Belfour and Hasek to consider as well.   Same with Luongo to a degree.   

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IBatch Canucks Hall-of-Famer

IBatch

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On 8/24/2023 at 3:13 PM, canuck73_3 said:

Brodeur hands down. 

 

HM 

Roy, Sawchuk, Plante, Hasek. 

Nope.  Hands down not really. 

 

 

  Broduer played behind the greatest defensive teams of his era.   He was a great goalie.   But not the greatest despite the stats.    And it's not the only reason why he doesn't get all of the love  from guys who were around for Sawchuk, Plante, Hall play either.    In the end he's in the top six.   Behind guys like Sawchuk, Roy,  maybe Plante and for sure Hasek.   Hasek on NJ, or Roy playing for NJ in the playoffs instead.    And put Broduer in Buffalo instead.    He's still a worthy candidate.   He also padded his stats with OT, and shoot out wins or losses instead of ties.    Sawchuk's shut-out to win ratio is simply gaudy, like some of Gretzky's stats.    As for save percentages.  Thankfully hockey historians have gone back which gives us a glimpse anyways.   Drydens, and Parents PHI years, Plant, Halls, Bower's etc sure line up well with Hasek's numbers.    Broduer's was rather garden variety star goalie for his era until the 2000's.  Belfour.  Roy.  Hasek.  Broduer.   He for sure wasn't the only name.  What he ruled the roost with, was his puck handling ability.  Luongo scared me when he left the net, became his stiffest competition once the old guard was done. 

 

One thing that is lost with the butterfly, was the art of rebound control.    Used to be goalies could direct a shot to where they wanted, almost like playing the puck (Furh was great at this - and his glove hand was absolutely sick).   

 

Didn't see Sawchuk, Plante play.    I did see Roy from the start.    And well the guys that saw Roy, Broduer, Hasek and those older guys play - have Roy ahead too.   Nobody will ever beat his 10 OT a win record from 92-93.   No way MTL had any business making it to the final.   PIT handled NJ.   NYR handled NJ the year later.    Then they won a cup.   Roy handled Broduer in his prime just before he retired.    Roy for me.   

 

Edit:  As an aside it's an interesting read what Lemaire expected of his players.   Kevin Stevens was actually a skilled offensive defenseman.   Had just as much to offer as Neidermayer.   Stevens bought in, and focused on his D-game.    Those were great teams.   COL/DET/NJ after NYR and PIT had their go, we're the teams to beat (Dallas created one of the better dead puck era teams too).   PHI didn't ascend like folks thought they would.   Goaltending considered the missing link at the time, still trying to find a Hextall or Parent.    NJ also boasted one of the best offense's which is lost at times, for awhile anyways, and we added to that with Mogilny.    Lemaire is the genuis that changed the game.   Broduer was the perfect goalie, at the right time in the right spot.    His save percentage took a nose dive after he lost his defense.   Did do an admirable late career charge to the final without them which cements his legacy, as one of the greatest - Sawchuk did that too, older.

 

"You could throw a bag of rice at Terry, and he'd stop every grain".

 

Suppose that's why THN, still has him as number one.   Roy 2.  Broduer 3.  Plante 4.  Hall 5.  Hasek 6.  Dryden 7.   With an argument that any of those guys could be considered the greatest all-time goalie.  It's also noted, younger writers/hockey folks that got to  vote moved Broduer up.  I wouldn't build a team around Broduer before either Hasek or Roy.   

Same way Lidstrom only viewers, felt the need to vote him ahead of Orr for some reason, which put him ahead of Borque, Potvin and Coffey all the way to number 3 behind Harvey and Orr.    Sure the same thing will be done one day to Crosby, McDavid and Ovi. 

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