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Insider Trading on Roberto Luongo

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#61 mpt

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 08:21 AM



Why should MG come out and tell everyone his plan. That's an easy way to lower trade values and get less in return. The fact he can leverage both Schneider and Luongo drives the price up for teams that want one or the other. Just look at trades when players admit they want out, the return is never good enough.

Be patient, wait and let MG do his thing.

Edited by mpt, 02 June 2012 - 08:21 AM.


#62 KING ALBERTS

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 08:30 AM

There is nothing wrong with having two elite goalies. I'll be happy if both stay.


but schneider and luongo wont be.

luongo doesnt want to compete for his job at this point in his career... and schneider has proven he has what it takes to be a #1

one of them will be traded, its a foregone conclusion.. lu's already been alienated, and keeping schneider to play backup will be like opening the door for him at the end of next season
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i fel off the banwagon and hit my hed on a rok


#63 Gonz

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:11 PM

I've also been quiet through these hours playing the dummy along with the crowd, but I'm going to be honest - I want Luongo to stay over Schneider. The only reason I see Luongo getting traded instead of Schneider is because he has a higher trade value. Yes, Luongo has the higher trade value.

The thing is, the Vancouver Canucks are a contender that needs one or two pieces to get back to elite status. If one of our goaltenders can get us that, then we have a solid team that is good enough to win regardless of who's back there. Schneider can't get us those pieces - Luongo can.

That's why Luongo may get traded - because it doesn't matter for us who's in net between Luongo and Schneider as long as we have that solid return that addresses our needs on defense (particularly the right side) - because we have a solid team.


Haha this dude is out to lunch maybe you should watch or listen to more hockey analysis. Or maybe you should become one to make this bold statement or honesty haha. Yup alot teams prefer older goaltender with big contract hahatoo funny

#64 Dasein

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 01:39 PM

Haha this dude is out to lunch maybe you should watch or listen to more hockey analysis. Or maybe you should become one to make this bold statement or honesty haha. Yup alot teams prefer older goaltender with big contract hahatoo funny


Luongo has 30+ wins in the last 7 seasons, got his team to game 7 of Stanley Cup Finals, won Olympic Gold for Canada and is a proven starter who is guaranteed to get your team into the playoffs. He's 33 years old which means he has at least 4-5 more great years left in him at a relatively low cap hit of $5.3mil in comparison to the goalies around him of similar talent. Yes, his contract is huge, but he will retire long before it runs out when he's out of his prime. And there are 2 out clauses in the contract that allows the team to walk away at 2018. When you see 38 year old Thomas and 40 year old Brodeur in SCFs, age is not of concern as Luongo is only 33.

Schneider is 26 years old and entering his prime and looks like he's as good as if not better than Luongo at the moment. He has never been a starter playing 60+ games every season. He has never played in pressure games like Olympic Gold Medal games, Game 7 OT vs Chicago or started a the Stanley Cup Finals game. He's unproven.

Luongo, because he is a proven commodity, can demand multiple assets - maybe roster players, maybe prospects, maybe draft picks. Schneider, on the other hand, can only garner maybe one or two prospects. Why? Because techinically, he is a prospect too.

For example, Luongo would be worth Jake Gardiner + ______ in return because Luongo is a guaranteed commodity. Yes, Gardiner had a promising rookie season, but he's still not proven to be a top 2 defenseman, whereas Luongo is guaranteed 30+ win starter. Therefore, the other team has to pay up. However, Schneider is only worth Jake Gardiner in return because they are both unproven in their positions as top 2 defenseman and starting goaltender.


Do some more research, kid. Luongo is much more valuable than Schneider is on the trade block.

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#65 Tearloch7

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 02:09 PM

Haha this dude is out to lunch maybe you should watch or listen to more hockey analysis. Or maybe you should become one to make this bold statement or honesty haha. Yup alot teams prefer older goaltender with big contract hahatoo funny


You, Sir, live up to your name .. well done .. :towel:

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#66 AnInconvenienceBrah

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 04:57 PM

Luongo has 30+ wins in the last 7 seasons, got his team to game 7 of Stanley Cup Finals, won Olympic Gold for Canada and is a proven starter who is guaranteed to get your team into the playoffs. He's 33 years old which means he has at least 4-5 more great years left in him at a relatively low cap hit of $5.3mil in comparison to the goalies around him of similar talent. Yes, his contract is huge, but he will retire long before it runs out when he's out of his prime. And there are 2 out clauses in the contract that allows the team to walk away at 2018. When you see 38 year old Thomas and 40 year old Brodeur in SCFs, age is not of concern as Luongo is only 33.

Schneider is 26 years old and entering his prime and looks like he's as good as if not better than Luongo at the moment. He has never been a starter playing 60+ games every season. He has never played in pressure games like Olympic Gold Medal games, Game 7 OT vs Chicago or started a the Stanley Cup Finals game. He's unproven.

Luongo, because he is a proven commodity, can demand multiple assets - maybe roster players, maybe prospects, maybe draft picks. Schneider, on the other hand, can only garner maybe one or two prospects. Why? Because techinically, he is a prospect too.

For example, Luongo would be worth Jake Gardiner + ______ in return because Luongo is a guaranteed commodity. Yes, Gardiner had a promising rookie season, but he's still not proven to be a top 2 defenseman, whereas Luongo is guaranteed 30+ win starter. Therefore, the other team has to pay up. However, Schneider is only worth Jake Gardiner in return because they are both unproven in their positions as top 2 defenseman and starting goaltender.


Do some more research, kid. Luongo is much more valuable than Schneider is on the trade block.


Schneider has way more value in a trade, he's younger and he just dethroned Luongo for the starter role!!!!! teams will drool over getting Schneider but teams are iffy on taking on Luongo due to his contract and age. Personally I think a lot of Canuck fans are stuck in la la land with thinking we'll get the 5th overall and Gardiner for Luongo from the Leafs.

Schneider also isn't unproven he played in a lot of big key games and played more playoff games than Luongo this past season, well standing on his head.

Edited by AnInconvenienceBrah, 02 June 2012 - 05:01 PM.


#67 Dasein

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 05:10 PM

Schneider has way more value in a trade, he's younger and he just dethroned Luongo for the starter role!!!!! teams will drool over getting Schneider but teams are iffy on taking on Luongo due to his contract and age. Personally I think a lot of Canuck fans are stuck in la la land with thinking we'll get the 5th overall and Gardiner for Luongo from the Leafs.

Schneider also isn't unproven he played in a lot of big key games and played more playoff games than Luongo this past season, well standing on his head.


He hasn't dethroned S*&#. A career is not made of 3 playoff games.

Schneider only started 3 playoff games, all of which were in the first round. He played two games with Daniel in the lineup, and he was STILL only 1W2L. That's only one win better than Luongo, who had no run support and played only two games without Daniel.

Three playoff games in the first round isn't convincing to anybody - especially considering the body of work Luongo has put out there (as I mentioned in my previous post which you replied to).

There's no reason to be iffy on Luongo's age - looking at the likes of Brodeur and Thomas, who Luongo is similar to. In addition, Luongo's contract is long so that the cap hit is low when Luongo is in his prime, which is now and 4-5 years from now. After that, he will retire and the team doesn't need to deal with his contract any longer.

Luongo is a proven 30+ win starter who will do it again and again and get his team into the playoffs the next 5 years. That's something you pay a premium for. Schneider, though it looks as he has all the tools to equal or better Luongo, is not proven. So he won't bring as much back as Luongo would.

Athletes today are scared to make Muhammad Ali Statements.


#68 smurf47

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 07:03 PM

You could get a junior B goalie to suit up for the Canucks and win 30 games ! Luongo is meciocre on a first place team ! Wake up and smell the coffee....Lou can;t carry Schneid's hockey bag at the moment. Lou will be backup here, or starter in Toronto. Hope that gets yur attention !

#69 Nordiques_fan

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 08:35 PM

Ok, I slept with both goalies, and Luongo definitely has the bigger five hole.

#70 Scoobydooby

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 09:15 PM

Ok, I slept with both goalies, and Luongo definitely has the bigger five hole.

lol i dunno why but this made me laugh.

that said, Im a prevert.

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#71 wesley

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 09:31 PM

One of them has to go.

#72 Navyblue

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:46 PM

If I were Gillis, I would try for the best goalie tendem in the league and use that as proof to CS from MG that Corey isn't just a "piece" to ship off. Maybe he offers him a one or two year deal to be a 50% goalie here. Lou seems to be okay with what ever the team wants.

With the cap going up, I can clearly see the NUX running a two goalie system. Even if they have to sign Corey to a luongo-like (money) contract in smaller terms. Maybe 6 years with a 4 mil cap hit, front loaded. Give the guy a fair contract, with a fair market value, UFA inflation aside.

This is LA's year. No one can argue that after seeing how they've put every team they've played to rest with ease.
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#73 AnInconvenienceBrah

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 01:18 AM

He hasn't dethroned S*&#. A career is not made of 3 playoff games.

Schneider only started 3 playoff games, all of which were in the first round. He played two games with Daniel in the lineup, and he was STILL only 1W2L. That's only one win better than Luongo, who had no run support and played only two games without Daniel.

Three playoff games in the first round isn't convincing to anybody - especially considering the body of work Luongo has put out there (as I mentioned in my previous post which you replied to).

There's no reason to be iffy on Luongo's age - looking at the likes of Brodeur and Thomas, who Luongo is similar to. In addition, Luongo's contract is long so that the cap hit is low when Luongo is in his prime, which is now and 4-5 years from now. After that, he will retire and the team doesn't need to deal with his contract any longer.

Luongo is a proven 30+ win starter who will do it again and again and get his team into the playoffs the next 5 years. That's something you pay a premium for. Schneider, though it looks as he has all the tools to equal or better Luongo, is not proven. So he won't bring as much back as Luongo would.


You have too big of a crush on Luongo that your not seeing things correctly. AV came out and said he played Schneider cause he gave us the better chance to win, now this playoffs for sure wasn't Luongo fault and Luongo play was much better than his stats but Schneider's play was also better than Luongo's and has stolen the #1 job, this is pretty clear.

Schneider would hands down bring back a much bigger return as he doesn't have 40+ million left on a 10 year deal, Schneider is also much younger giving a team(Canucks) much longer security in net. I'd be pretty shocked if we get a lot for Luongo even BMac was saying teams won't pay much for Luongo cause of the amount of money and years left on the contract, if Gillis can get the 5th overall great! Luongo skill level equals that kinda return but his contract and money owing is a big negative.

Anyways after getting embarrassed in the playoffs changes need to happen and trading Luongo is part of that change, I wouldn't be shocked if more core guys are moved, Gillis said something on the lines that changes need to happen and we need to get bigger and younger and I do agree with that, we're too soft for the West and this team will get bullied around again the cat is out of the bag on how to beat this Canucks team.

#74 Hodgson777

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 01:36 AM

I could care less about the regular season anymore, Schneider just seems much assertive/strong minded and has a smidgen more of a calming influence on the team, as CS doesn't let losses or goals get to him emotionally.

And CS will likely get about $3.75M-4M per for about 6 years pretty quick imo.

RL in the east should get us enough assests for now and the future to help the team be effective for another rare chance to win it all, all we need is one Stanley Cup championship please!!!!!!!!

#75 Dasein

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 11:18 AM

You have too big of a crush on Luongo that your not seeing things correctly. AV came out and said he played Schneider cause he gave us the better chance to win, now this playoffs for sure wasn't Luongo fault and Luongo play was much better than his stats but Schneider's play was also better than Luongo's and has stolen the #1 job, this is pretty clear.

Schneider would hands down bring back a much bigger return as he doesn't have 40+ million left on a 10 year deal, Schneider is also much younger giving a team(Canucks) much longer security in net. I'd be pretty shocked if we get a lot for Luongo even BMac was saying teams won't pay much for Luongo cause of the amount of money and years left on the contract, if Gillis can get the 5th overall great! Luongo skill level equals that kinda return but his contract and money owing is a big negative.

Anyways after getting embarrassed in the playoffs changes need to happen and trading Luongo is part of that change, I wouldn't be shocked if more core guys are moved, Gillis said something on the lines that changes need to happen and we need to get bigger and younger and I do agree with that, we're too soft for the West and this team will get bullied around again the cat is out of the bag on how to beat this Canucks team.


Schneider gave us a better chance to win at that point in time. And once again, Schneider hasn't stolen Luongo's starting role on this team. If the two are back in training camp, they will compete for the #1 job.

Just because Schneider started the last 3 playoff games doesn't mean he is the future. It's too small a sample size to rely on to make predictions about the future if both are back.


You're insane if you think Schneider would bring back more assets than Luongo at this point. Luongo is one of those elite proven starters who people would use as assets (ie, Jake Gardiner, Luke Schenn, Brett Connolly, draft picks etc) to get him. Schneider is one of those unproven promising young assets that you use as a part of your package to get proven players (ie, Rick Nash, Shea Weber, etc).

MG's talking to Luongo this week to see where he is after we've had some time to put aside the emotions from this loss. We'll see where this goes. If Luongo gets traded, I'm okay with it because I think Schneider can get the job done and get us into the playoffs. If Schneider gets traded, I know Luongo can get the job done because he's done it many times with us. But if it's about who gets a higher return, then Luongo hands down has the higher value.

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#76 AnInconvenienceBrah

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 11:37 AM

Schneider gave us a better chance to win at that point in time. And once again, Schneider hasn't stolen Luongo's starting role on this team. If the two are back in training camp, they will compete for the #1 job.

Just because Schneider started the last 3 playoff games doesn't mean he is the future. It's too small a sample size to rely on to make predictions about the future if both are back.


You're insane if you think Schneider would bring back more assets than Luongo at this point. Luongo is one of those elite proven starters who people would use as assets (ie, Jake Gardiner, Luke Schenn, Brett Connolly, draft picks etc) to get him. Schneider is one of those unproven promising young assets that you use as a part of your package to get proven players (ie, Rick Nash, Shea Weber, etc).

MG's talking to Luongo this week to see where he is after we've had some time to put aside the emotions from this loss. We'll see where this goes. If Luongo gets traded, I'm okay with it because I think Schneider can get the job done and get us into the playoffs. If Schneider gets traded, I know Luongo can get the job done because he's done it many times with us. But if it's about who gets a higher return, then Luongo hands down has the higher value.


Completely disagree with you when it comes to value between Schneider and Luongo, I think your way off as Luongo's contract is a killer for value, his value would be much more if his contract didn't suck and this takes a lot of teams out of the running as they just can't commit to that much money, this lowering the bidding war to say Toronto, if Schneider was on the table you's have Toronto, Tampa, Columbus, Hawks, Devils, Oilers, Sharks and more in the running as he's younger shown he can play at a high level in the NHL and he won't have a retarded contract coming with him.

#77 Dasein

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 01:05 PM

Completely disagree with you when it comes to value between Schneider and Luongo, I think your way off as Luongo's contract is a killer for value, his value would be much more if his contract didn't suck and this takes a lot of teams out of the running as they just can't commit to that much money, this lowering the bidding war to say Toronto, if Schneider was on the table you's have Toronto, Tampa, Columbus, Hawks, Devils, Oilers, Sharks and more in the running as he's younger shown he can play at a high level in the NHL and he won't have a retarded contract coming with him.


His contract? Please. It is a low cap hit for an elite goaltender of his calibre, and Luongo has at least 4-5 years of great goaltending left in him. Once he runs out of prime, Luongo will retire, and the cap hit will no longer be an issue to the team. They will only have Luongo at $5.3mil for as long as Luongo is playing and playing in his prime.

If not, the team has an out clause on Luongo's NTC in 2018 and can move him wherever they wish to.

Schneider on the table would not garner as much as Luongo because he's UNPROVEN. He's never been a starter at the NHL level and no matter how promising he looks, he's not a guaranteed starter - and that takes a hit on Schneider's trade value. He's young, yes. He's cheap, but only because he's unproven.

Take your Schneider homer glasses off. Nobody would pay more for Schneider than they would for Luongo this summer - not until Schneider has started a full season for an NHL team.

Edited by Dasein, 03 June 2012 - 01:07 PM.

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#78 AnInconvenienceBrah

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 01:29 PM

His contract? Please. It is a low cap hit for an elite goaltender of his calibre, and Luongo has at least 4-5 years of great goaltending left in him. Once he runs out of prime, Luongo will retire, and the cap hit will no longer be an issue to the team. They will only have Luongo at $5.3mil for as long as Luongo is playing and playing in his prime.

If not, the team has an out clause on Luongo's NTC in 2018 and can move him wherever they wish to.

Schneider on the table would not garner as much as Luongo because he's UNPROVEN. He's never been a starter at the NHL level and no matter how promising he looks, he's not a guaranteed starter - and that takes a hit on Schneider's trade value. He's young, yes. He's cheap, but only because he's unproven.

Take your Schneider homer glasses off. Nobody would pay more for Schneider than they would for Luongo this summer - not until Schneider has started a full season for an NHL team.


You have no idea what your talking about... even all the hockey insiders are saying value wise it's Schneider >>>>> Luongo, BMac has talked about this a few times. I think Canuck fans who think we'll get the 5th overall and Gardiner are way off to left field or the Leaf fans who think a cap dump will get Luongo are also way off to left field, if we sign Justin Schultz I'd be happy with a deal like this

To Toronto
Luongo

To Vancouver
Schenn
Ashton

We need a D man with size and grit that Schenn brings and Ashton is a tough power forward prospect with upside that'll fit nicely with Kassian and what we lack and need.

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Schultz
Ballard Schenn
Tanev
Rome

like Gillis said we need to get younger and bigger.

#79 Dasein

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 01:45 PM

You have no idea what your talking about... even all the hockey insiders are saying value wise it's Schneider >>>>> Luongo, BMac has talked about this a few times. I think Canuck fans who think we'll get the 5th overall and Gardiner are way off to left field or the Leaf fans who think a cap dump will get Luongo are also way off to left field, if we sign Justin Schultz I'd be happy with a deal like this

To Toronto
Luongo

To Vancouver
Schenn
Ashton

We need a D man with size and grit that Schenn brings and Ashton is a tough power forward prospect with upside that'll fit nicely with Kassian and what we lack and need.

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Schultz
Ballard Schenn
Tanev
Rome

like Gillis said we need to get younger and bigger.



Get me a quote of any analyst specifically saying that Schneider's value is marginally significant than Luongo's. Until then, you're just talking out of your ass.

A proven commodity is always valued more than an unproven one. For example, reason why Yzerman is going after Bernier and not Luongo - Luongo is proven and therefore would cost more (in Yzerman's mind, too much apparently). Same with Schneider. Schneider is more proven than Bernier, but he's still not a proven starter like Luongo is, and hence lesser trade value than Luongo.

Edited by Dasein, 03 June 2012 - 01:45 PM.

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#80 AnInconvenienceBrah

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 02:06 PM

Get me a quote of any analyst specifically saying that Schneider's value is marginally significant than Luongo's. Until then, you're just talking out of your ass.

A proven commodity is always valued more than an unproven one. For example, reason why Yzerman is going after Bernier and not Luongo - Luongo is proven and therefore would cost more (in Yzerman's mind, too much apparently). Same with Schneider. Schneider is more proven than Bernier, but he's still not a proven starter like Luongo is, and hence lesser trade value than Luongo.


At trade deadline Bob Mackenzie was saying Canucks are getting significant offers for Schneider

http://forum.canucks...-for-schneider/

Teams aren't that interested in Luongo

http://forum.canucks...rest-in-luongo/

Go look through BMacs twitter for the Luongo Schneider value and teams interest in them, I think he said it on the team1040 too. The reason why SY is after Bernier over Luongo is because of age, SY has said he wants a goalie to grow with Stamkos and wants a younger goalie who could become a star. SY said he'd take a 20 year old Luongo

“Obviously I’d love to have a 20-year-old [Roberto]or Martin Brodeur and not worry about goaltending for the next 20 years, but that’s hard to do," Yzerman said on 620 WDAE.

http://www.theglobea...article2442732/

the only one who is talking out of their ass is you, I'm just being realistic, it's simple Schneider holds more value due to age, contract not being so huge and taking him into his 40's and his play which stats and just watching him play he's showing he's the better goalie, he took the starter role from Luongo at the start of the season and again at the end in the playoffs. Luongo is still a great goalie and I think will be for many more years but Schneider is better and because of age a safer option. What blows my mind is your inability to put this together.

#81 Dasein

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 02:32 PM

At trade deadline Bob Mackenzie was saying Canucks are getting significant offers for Schneider

http://forum.canucks...-for-schneider/

Teams aren't that interested in Luongo

http://forum.canucks...rest-in-luongo/

Go look through BMacs twitter for the Luongo Schneider value and teams interest in them, I think he said it on the team1040 too. The reason why SY is after Bernier over Luongo is because of age, SY has said he wants a goalie to grow with Stamkos and wants a younger goalie who could become a star. SY said he'd take a 20 year old Luongo

“Obviously I’d love to have a 20-year-old [Roberto]or Martin Brodeur and not worry about goaltending for the next 20 years, but that’s hard to do," Yzerman said on 620 WDAE.

http://www.theglobea...article2442732/

the only one who is talking out of their ass is you, I'm just being realistic, it's simple Schneider holds more value due to age, contract not being so huge and taking him into his 40's and his play which stats and just watching him play he's showing he's the better goalie, he took the starter role from Luongo at the start of the season and again at the end in the playoffs. Luongo is still a great goalie and I think will be for many more years but Schneider is better and because of age a safer option. What blows my mind is your inability to put this together.


At trade deadline: This is when Luongo was the clear #1 on this team. I don't doubt he had significant offers, but his trade value was definitely not higher than Luongo's. The issue at hand here isn't Schneider's trade value - I'm sure we can get some significant piece(s) for him. The issue is who has a higher trade value - Luongo or Schneider. At the deadline, Luongo clearly would have had a higher trade value if available.

Teams aren't interested in Luongo: Again, teams have to pay a premium for a proven starter like Luongo. You go after the less expensive options and hope that they can get you through the year and into the playoffs. Heck, teams have more interest in Vokoun, who is older and not as good as Luongo, than Luongo right now - that's because he comes cheap and is a short fix. Or teams try for Bernier, who is cheap because he's unproven and take the risk like Colorado did with Varlamov.

Truth is, Luongo is the most expensive goaltender on the market, and rightfully so - he is the most proven commodity and will get you the results. It's premature to say that there is no interest in Luongo a month prior to free agency and a few weeks before the draft during the Stanley Cup Final.

Steve Yzerman: Yzerman can't afford Luongo - if Luongo could be had at the price that Bernier could be had, then there is no way Yzerman would turn down Roberto. Luongo obviously has a higher trade value than Bernier. Age isn't the only factor - it's the pieces you need to give up the player, and you clearly have to give up more for Luongo than Bernier.

Age is the deciding factor definitely - if both players are proven. But the fact of the matter here is, Schneider has never played a full NHL season as a starter, and Luongo has many years and is good for at least 4-5 more years. You need to understand that. If Schneider played 1 full season as the starter and put up the numbers he did this year, no doubt Schneider's value would trump Luongo's. But fact of the matter is, Schneider doesn't have that under his belt.

And good young goaltenders like Schneider are abundant these days - Schneider, Quick, Price Rask, Varlamov, Bernier, Holtby, Pavelec, Lindback, Markstrom, Dubnyk etc - All under the age of 26. A few are already starters, some are backups waiting to be starters. You don't think a team can draft and develop a goaltender to replace Luongo in 4-5 years when he's out of prime and ready to retire? Heck, we have Eddie Lack and Joe Cannata in the AHL who could replace Luongo 4-5 years down the road if we trade Schneider.

But guys like Luongo - who have been starters for a decade and consistently put his team into the playoffs and put up 30+ wins in the latter half - these guys don't come around often. And when they do, teams need to pay a premium because they know exactly what they are getting back in a trade. If there are more teams interested in Schneider, it's not just because he's younger, but also because he can be had for cheaper because he is unproven.

And you still haven't provided me with a quote that says "Schneider's value >>> Luongo's value". Stop beating around the bush with CDC threads that don't actually address the issue.

Edited by Dasein, 03 June 2012 - 02:34 PM.

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#82 AnInconvenienceBrah

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 02:57 PM

At trade deadline: This is when Luongo was the clear #1 on this team. I don't doubt he had significant offers, but his trade value was definitely not higher than Luongo's. The issue at hand here isn't Schneider's trade value - I'm sure we can get some significant piece(s) for him. The issue is who has a higher trade value - Luongo or Schneider. At the deadline, Luongo clearly would have had a higher trade value if available.

Teams aren't interested in Luongo: Again, teams have to pay a premium for a proven starter like Luongo. You go after the less expensive options and hope that they can get you through the year and into the playoffs. Heck, teams have more interest in Vokoun, who is older and not as good as Luongo, than Luongo right now - that's because he comes cheap and is a short fix. Or teams try for Bernier, who is cheap because he's unproven and take the risk like Colorado did with Varlamov.

Truth is, Luongo is the most expensive goaltender on the market, and rightfully so - he is the most proven commodity and will get you the results. It's premature to say that there is no interest in Luongo a month prior to free agency and a few weeks before the draft during the Stanley Cup Final.

Steve Yzerman: Yzerman can't afford Luongo - if Luongo could be had at the price that Bernier could be had, then there is no way Yzerman would turn down Roberto. Luongo obviously has a higher trade value than Bernier. Age isn't the only factor - it's the pieces you need to give up the player, and you clearly have to give up more for Luongo than Bernier.

Age is the deciding factor definitely - if both players are proven. But the fact of the matter here is, Schneider has never played a full NHL season as a starter, and Luongo has many years and is good for at least 4-5 more years. You need to understand that. If Schneider played 1 full season as the starter and put up the numbers he did this year, no doubt Schneider's value would trump Luongo's. But fact of the matter is, Schneider doesn't have that under his belt.

And good young goaltenders like Schneider are abundant these days - Schneider, Quick, Price Rask, Varlamov, Bernier, Holtby, Pavelec, Lindback, Markstrom, Dubnyk etc - All under the age of 26. A few are already starters, some are backups waiting to be starters. You don't think a team can draft and develop a goaltender to replace Luongo in 4-5 years when he's out of prime and ready to retire? Heck, we have Eddie Lack and Joe Cannata in the AHL who could replace Luongo 4-5 years down the road if we trade Schneider.

But guys like Luongo - who have been starters for a decade and consistently put his team into the playoffs and put up 30+ wins in the latter half - these guys don't come around often. And when they do, teams need to pay a premium because they know exactly what they are getting back in a trade. If there are more teams interested in Schneider, it's not just because he's younger, but also because he can be had for cheaper because he is unproven.

And you still haven't provided me with a quote that says "Schneider's value >>> Luongo's value". Stop beating around the bush with CDC threads that don't actually address the issue.


Your too far gone and have proven to me you have no clue what your talking about when it comes to player values, instead of going back and forth with this stupidity that your very very very wrong about I'll save myself a lot of time and just ignore this topic with you as your too emotionally invested into Luongo that you can't see straight. Also, those CDC threads had links to audio clips and other board members who heard BMac talking about Luongo and Schneider, but again your blind to the truth and that's fine but your very wrong.

Like I said Luongo has some value many posters of other teams think they can get him for a cap dumb and well their just as wrong as you are when it comes to Luongo/Schneider value, but Luongo will not return Gardiner and the 5th overall, maybe Burke will give up the 5th overall(very unlikely imho) but I honestly think he needs to package that pick for a 1st line centre or a potential 1st line centre further along in his development to a team that needs a high end D man prospect, like I said I'd be happy with Schenn and Ashton both bring size, grit, toughness, youth and skill to the team. I honestly think Canucks need to build their farm and future as a hard hitting, gritty team(like the Bruins) that type of team always seems to be a style that wins cups.

#83 Dasein

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 03:36 PM

Your too far gone and have proven to me you have no clue what your talking about when it comes to player values, instead of going back and forth with this stupidity that your very very very wrong about I'll save myself a lot of time and just ignore this topic with you as your too emotionally invested into Luongo that you can't see straight. Also, those CDC threads had links to audio clips and other board members who heard BMac talking about Luongo and Schneider, but again your blind to the truth and that's fine but your very wrong.

Like I said Luongo has some value many posters of other teams think they can get him for a cap dumb and well their just as wrong as you are when it comes to Luongo/Schneider value, but Luongo will not return Gardiner and the 5th overall, maybe Burke will give up the 5th overall(very unlikely imho) but I honestly think he needs to package that pick for a 1st line centre or a potential 1st line centre further along in his development to a team that needs a high end D man prospect, like I said I'd be happy with Schenn and Ashton both bring size, grit, toughness, youth and skill to the team. I honestly think Canucks need to build their farm and future as a hard hitting, gritty team(like the Bruins) that type of team always seems to be a style that wins cups.


I'm not emotionally attached to Luongo - you are the one who is blinded by your penchant for new shiny toys such as Schneider. I am completely fine with having Schneider as the starting goaltender next season as I think he can handle it. But fact of the matter is, as an unproven starter, he has only a slight increase in value over the 2nd tier unproven starters like Bernier. His value is not as much as Luongo is as a proven starter.

You take your arguments all over the place and not really stick to the point which is Luongo's trade value vs Schneider's trade value. And I've given you clear reasons why Luongo has a higher value - 4-5 years left in him of excellent goaltending, will retire once out of prime thus cap hit and contract not a concern, gives team room to draft and grow a young goaltender like Schneider in the meanwhile to replace when he is done in 5 years. Schneider, though younger, is not proven - hence cheaper. He comes at a lower asking price because he is unproven.

You claim Schneider has a high value because he's younger but neglect the fact that he has no experience as a starter - he could be the next Toskala, Bryzgalov, and all those backups who left good teams to be starters and bust. Because there is that bust possibility (though it think that is minimal in Schneider), his value is lower than Luongo's. You also claim that all the analysts support your view, but you have provided no evidence of such cases. It's hard to take you seriously when you take the argument all over the board and not back your words up by actually providing analysts who you say have supported your view.

I'm not gonna bother with this anymore because you clearly can't even stay on topic of the argument. Any way you cut it, Luongo as a proven starter has more trade value than Schneider as an unproven goaltender.

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#84 Toews

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 03:46 PM

I honestly don't see either Toronto or Tampa that will end up getting Luongo, Yzerman is probably going to go after a younger guy like he said and Burke will lowball. It will end up being a team that no one thought would be interested.

#85 AnInconvenienceBrah

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 04:01 PM

I'm not emotionally attached to Luongo - you are the one who is blinded by your penchant for new shiny toys such as Schneider. I am completely fine with having Schneider as the starting goaltender next season as I think he can handle it. But fact of the matter is, as an unproven starter, he has only a slight increase in value over the 2nd tier unproven starters like Bernier. His value is not as much as Luongo is as a proven starter.

You take your arguments all over the place and not really stick to the point which is Luongo's trade value vs Schneider's trade value. And I've given you clear reasons why Luongo has a higher value - 4-5 years left in him of excellent goaltending, will retire once out of prime thus cap hit and contract not a concern, gives team room to draft and grow a young goaltender like Schneider in the meanwhile to replace when he is done in 5 years. Schneider, though younger, is not proven - hence cheaper. He comes at a lower asking price because he is unproven.

You claim Schneider has a high value because he's younger but neglect the fact that he has no experience as a starter - he could be the next Toskala, Bryzgalov, and all those backups who left good teams to be starters and bust. Because there is that bust possibility (though it think that is minimal in Schneider), his value is lower than Luongo's. You also claim that all the analysts support your view, but you have provided no evidence of such cases. It's hard to take you seriously when you take the argument all over the board and not back your words up by actually providing analysts who you say have supported your view.

I'm not gonna bother with this anymore because you clearly can't even stay on topic of the argument. Any way you cut it, Luongo as a proven starter has more trade value than Schneider as an unproven goaltender.


All the hockey insiders like BMac are all saying teams have more interest in Schneider than Luongo and that if Canucks trade Schneider over Luongo that the return will be higher, your very wrong on this topic and people who are regarded as respectable insiders are the ones saying this, I'll take their word over a fan who is too emotionally attached to Luongo and opinion is very wrong and against what insiders are saying. I understand we all have our own opinions and that's fine but my opinion is coming from hearing what hockey insiders are saying vs my personally bias and unknowledgeable guess, like what your claiming.

#86 AnInconvenienceBrah

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 04:05 PM

I honestly don't see either Toronto or Tampa that will end up getting Luongo, Yzerman is probably going to go after a younger guy like he said and Burke will lowball. It will end up being a team that no one thought would be interested.


I think Toronto is the only real fit has Luongo salary is more than his cap hit and most teams in need of a goalie don't want to pay more salary than what the cap hit is, Toronto can afford that so it won't be an issue with them and if Burke knows he's the only realistic option for Luongo this will hurt his value, imo.

#87 rlatjswnd

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 05:31 PM

I'm not gonna bother with this anymore because you clearly can't even stay on topic of the argument. Any way you cut it, Luongo as a proven starter has more trade value than Schneider as an unproven goaltender.


Why is your judgement on trade value solely based on whether a player is proven or unproven?

Also, according to your logic than should, Martin Brodeur should have the highest value come free agent time this July because he is the most proven, right?

#88 our time is now

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 06:49 PM

Isn't the horse dead yet?

Isn't the horse dead yet?

not yet breathing

#89 sting

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 07:31 PM

Perhaps you should agree to disagree. Both are valid arguments.........the more i look at this pending trade the more i believe that they both have pretty even values due to age, cost etc.

Luongo will instantly make the Leafs or Tampa cup contenders. He IS the Premier goaltender available his contract is decent value but there is significant long term risk with 10 yrs remaining and he has shown a degree of inconsistency. Also he needs to approve of his destination limiting suitors.

Schneider as amazing as he has been........still needs to show a greater body of work to be considered a top starter in the NHL ( I have no doubt he will) But hence his risk lies in his unproven status. E.g Crawford of the Hawks looked amazing during a small sample size and this past season the immortal Ray Emery was at times there starter.


Dasein.....Yzerman like Gillis is posturing when he says he's not that interested in Luongo. Just as Gillis says he is prepared to keep both goalies. It's negotiating 101. St.Louis, Malone, Lecavalier, Brewer are not getting any younger and SY would be an idiot to throw away chances at the cup by going with Bernier, Vokoun and the rest of the B team keepers available.

A.Brah.........BMac is hardly an nhl expert or insider and BobMckenzie is a big leaf homer so you have to take what he says with a grain of salt as well. I do like your Lou for Schenn and Ashton trade.

#90 Dasein

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 07:32 PM

All the hockey insiders like BMac are all saying teams have more interest in Schneider than Luongo and that if Canucks trade Schneider over Luongo that the return will be higher, your very wrong on this topic and people who are regarded as respectable insiders are the ones saying this, I'll take their word over a fan who is too emotionally attached to Luongo and opinion is very wrong and against what insiders are saying. I understand we all have our own opinions and that's fine but my opinion is coming from hearing what hockey insiders are saying vs my personally bias and unknowledgeable guess, like what your claiming.


So find me a damn quote - if ALL the hockey insiders are saying this. Until then, yours is just as much "my personal bias" as you claim mine to be.



Why is your judgement on trade value solely based on whether a player is proven or unproven?

Also, according to your logic than should, Martin Brodeur should have the highest value come free agent time this July because he is the most proven, right?



Not true. Luongo is 33 which means he still has 4-5 years at least left in him. Brodeur is too close to retiring and is not a good example. And I did say IF Schneider had just even ONE season as a starter and put up the numbers he did, he would have more value than Luongo because he's younger. If you are as proven as the next guy, age factors in.

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