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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread


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#3991 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:55 PM

I think it's more like 17/24 if we assume all the owners in the meeting are unanimous.
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#3992 D-Money

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:56 PM

Yep. it's a stupid system designed by Bettman to protect the weak market teams.

How does it make sense that you can have over 2/3 of the owners accept a deal, but if there's less than a 1/3 that don't like it they have the power to reject it....


Actually, it's not a bad system. Bettman and his crew make decisions for the league. It takes a 2/3 majority to overturn what they have recommended as the best option for the league.

Theoretically, this allows NHL management to make decisions in the benefit of small market teams, provided it does not go against the wishes of an overwhelming majority.
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#3993 theminister

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:57 PM

The fastest way for deal to be done is to have the NHL accept a union proposal rather than the other way around.

I am sure both sides are aware of this and if an agreement is reached this week it will likely be this way.
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#3994 DeNiro

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:59 PM

Or it's designed so that a small contingent of owners can control the league, or Bettman can, or Jacobs.


Yea, but Jacobs seems to be the greediest of the owners. There were reports before the lockout started that he wanted to have one, and was even willing to bankroll part of it.

Either way I'd be pissed if I were an owner and a small group of owners were holding negotiations hostage.
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#3995 JustJokinen!

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:01 PM

Yea, but Jacobs seems to be the greediest of the owners. There were reports before the lockout started that he wanted to have one, and was even willing to bankroll part of it.

Either way I'd be pissed if I were an owner and a small group of owners were holding negotiations hostage.


Indeed. I'd bet that if the power among the owners was more dispersed that this would've ended long ago.
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#3996 RonMexico

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:02 PM

Enough owners are there at the BOG meeting that the owners side could likely accept a deal.

If the players in New York tell the other members that they have a good deal in place, I'm sure there would be no issue with them accepting it. Players trust each other.


This would NEVER happen in any union. They would still have to put it to a vote regardless of bargaining committee endorsement or not. Granted, when your bargaining committee endorses a deal, it is very likely to pass but there will still be players who will vote no because they can or simply do not agree with some of the concessions. Very few offers are ratified 100% in favour of acceptance. It's all in how they word it to their members. It is in the owner's best interest to be voting on a deal anyways as there is much less room for dissidence. So hopefully it's the NHLPA tabling the offer to the owners. That said, the NHLPA might have some sort of acceptance mechanism in their current CBA that allows the bargaining committee to be a quorum. I know everyone is getting excited that there might be a deal in place in short order but there is some old saying about not putting the cart in front of the horse.

Edited by RonMexico, 05 December 2012 - 05:06 PM.

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#3997 DeNiro

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:03 PM

Actually, it's not a bad system. Bettman and his crew make decisions for the league. It takes a 2/3 majority to overturn what they have recommended as the best option for the league.

Theoretically, this allows NHL management to make decisions in the benefit of small market teams, provided it does not go against the wishes of an overwhelming majority.


Yea, and those teams would likely hold out because they want more revenue sharing for themselves.

The NHL seems to be heading towards a system where no teams make alot of money, but rather some teams make a little bit of money and other teams just break even. Rather than fixing the weak teams, he's just creating a system of shared poverty.
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#3998 theminister

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:04 PM

Yea, but Jacobs seems to be the greediest of the owners. There were reports before the lockout started that he wanted to have one, and was even willing to bankroll part of it.

Either way I'd be pissed if I were an owner and a small group of owners were holding negotiations hostage.

Make no mistake about it, all of the profitable teams are bankrolling this lockout as they are taking the hit for the unprofitable portion.
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#3999 Everybody Hates Raymond

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:09 PM


Glen Macnow@RealGlenMacnow

NHL source tells me settlement could come Friday. Camp in a week, opener by Christmas, 60 game schedule. Hold your breath.

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#4000 Pears

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:10 PM


Glen Macnow ‏@RealGlenMacnow

NHL source tells me settlement could come Friday. Camp in a week, opener by Christmas, 60 game schedule. Hold your breath.

Please please please please please please please please please please please please
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#4001 theminister

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:10 PM

This would NEVER happen in any union. They would still have to put it to a vote regardless of bargaining committee endorsement or not. Granted, when your bargaining committee endorses a deal, it is very likely to pass but there will still be players who will vote no because they can or simply do not agree with some of the concessions. Very few offers are ratified 100% in favour of acceptance. It's all in how they word it to their members. It is in the owner's best interest to be voting on a deal anyways as there is much less room for dissidence. So hopefully it's the NHLPA tabling the offer to the owners. That said, the NHLPA might have some sort of acceptance mechanism in their current CBA that allows the bargaining committee to be a quorum. I know everyone is getting excited that there might be a deal in place in short order but there is some old saying about not putting the cart in front of the horse.


I'd be curious to hear what the final percentage of submitted votes from the PA would be seeing as they are scattered to the four winds. I would guess there would be a time limit for submissions and I can imagine that less than 100% would be counted. Not that it would matter in the end but it would be interesting to know.

Edited by theminister, 05 December 2012 - 05:13 PM.

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#4002 Joel Heyman

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:13 PM

HOLDINGBREATHFINGERSCROSSEDTOESCROSSEDKNOCKONWOODBLOWINGAWAYEYELASHESWISHINGONASTARALLTHIScrapE

pleasepleaseplease
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#4003 playboi19

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:14 PM


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Warm and fuzzy feelings from last night are gone. Things are tense heading into tonight's meeting. Pivotal session that will tell the tale

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#4004 DeNiro

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:19 PM

HOLDINGBREATHFINGERSCROSSEDTOESCROSSEDKNOCKONWOODBLOWINGAWAYEYELASHESWISHINGONASTARALLTHIScrapE

pleasepleaseplease


Whoa, stay on the page now, you're drunk!

Pierre LeBrun@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Warm and fuzzy feelings from last night are gone. Things are tense heading into tonight's meeting. Pivotal session that will tell the tale


This is what I was worried about. Everyone was all smiles yesterday because there were new people involved, and a new energy.

But when they come down to negotiating the numbers again, they could end up running into the same problems as before.

Edited by DeNiro, 05 December 2012 - 05:19 PM.

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#4005 WHL rocks

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:22 PM

Players and owners now in separate rooms talking things over.

Perhaps conferring with other owners/players whether or not to accept a deal?


DeNiro, If I scroll over the underlined word "accept" in quoted post an add comes up. Never seen this before on CDC. Not sure you meant to do this or this is something CDC recently introduced to make $$$.

On topic. It's normal to go into separate rooms and talk things over. I'm sure this has happened several times over the past couple of days. Normal part of negotiating. I even do it in day to day life. Doubt they would start calling other players to ask opinions at this time. Something like that would most likely happen after a session is complete.
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#4006 cs2016

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:25 PM

Getting too invested emotionally in all this hype. It'll be a massive disappointment if negotiations go sour.
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#4007 DeNiro

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:27 PM

DeNiro, If I scroll over the underlined word "accept" in quoted post an add comes up. Never seen this before on CDC. Not sure you meant to do this or this is something CDC recently introduced to make $$$.


Hmm it doesn't do that for me. I definitely didn't intend to do that.

Not sure why that would happen. What it is it an ad for?

Edited by DeNiro, 05 December 2012 - 05:28 PM.

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#4008 Hobble

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:27 PM

Glued to all this despite knowing nothing will likely be released tonight. Should be studying :(
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#4009 Joel Heyman

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:32 PM

Getting too invested emotionally in all this hype. It'll be a massive disappointment if negotiations go sour.


This. Very much this. I should just stop paying attention.


I think it's mostly because I've been bed-ridden with a really bad stomach flu for the past couple days and I'm starting to go a bit stir-crazy..
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#4010 The Bookie

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:35 PM

Sides exchange proposals

The NHL and the NHL Players' Association exchanged "proposals" potentially to end the lockout Wednesday after the previous day's marathon session, multiple sources confirmed to ESPNNewYork.com.
Although it is not believed the proposals are the formal, all-encompassing offers that have been traded -- and subsequently rejected -- in recent months, the NHL and the NHLPA exchanged ideas on key issues in multiple brief sessions.
Following the NHL's board of governors meeting, the two sides reconvened Wednesday at the same midtown Manhattan hotel where they appeared to gain traction Tuesday.
After the NHLPA expressed its position in the initial session, the league caucused internally and came back with a counter to the union. The exact issues addressed in each side's "offer" are not immediately known.
The session has been described as "very delicate," a source inside the room told ESPN.
Earlier Wednesday, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said he is "pleased with the process" -- even though he was left outside the latest rounds of discussions.
Still stuck on the perimeter with players' association executive director Donald Fehr, Bettman made a brief statement Wednesday on the state of the ongoing lockout but declined to take any questions.
A ray of hope that a season-saving deal could be made emerged late Tuesday night after about eight hours of bargaining.
"We are pleased with the process that is ongoing, and out of respect for that process, I don't have anything else to say," Bettman said.
Meanwhile, the Quebec Labour Relations Board granted a joint request from the NHL and NHLPA to postpone the hearing that was slated to take place Thursday and Friday, a source confirmed to ESPNNewYork.com. The hearing has been adjourned while the two sides focus on continued bargaining.
Bargaining stretched on Tuesday night until about midnight, and it was clear progress was made when deputy commissioner Bill Daly stood side by side with union special counsel Steve Fehr and issued a rare joint status report. Negotiations took place in a pair of sessions that included various sized groups.
The sides are trying to avoid another lost season. The NHL became the first North American professional sports league to cancel a full year because of a labor dispute in 2005. The deal reached then was in place until this September, and the lockout took effect on Sept. 16 after that agreement expired.


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#4011 JAH

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:48 PM

The fastest way for deal to be done is to have the NHL accept a union proposal rather than the other way around.

I am sure both sides are aware of this and if an agreement is reached this week it will likely be this way.


Why do you say that?
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#4012 WHL rocks

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:03 PM

Hmm it doesn't do that for me. I definitely didn't intend to do that.

Not sure why that would happen. What it is it an ad for?


It's not you. Thanks to hudson bay rules I just found out it's an add on/bug on my laptop.

Edited by WHL rocks, 05 December 2012 - 06:21 PM.

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#4013 theminister

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:21 PM

Why do you say that?

Ease of collating the votes. Getting a vote from 30 owners looking over a proposal will be a much faster process than putting it to a vote if 700+ PA members. Simple logistics.
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#4014 vv2

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:22 PM

Dm
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#4015 WHL rocks

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:23 PM

From the article Bookie posted a couple of posts up its clear to me D Fehr and Bettman are involved again.
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#4016 The Bookie

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:58 PM

NHL, NHLPA exchange offers as tension rises in collective bargaining talks

wave of optimism gave way to tension as the NHL and NHL Players' Association spent a second straight day trying to hammer out a collective bargaining agreement.
The sides exchanged proposals during a series of brief meetings on Wednesday afternoon, according to sources, in a bid to close the final gap in negotiations that have spanned more than five months.
The urgency was evident as a group of six league owners shuffled between internal meetings and short sessions with players and union staff at a hotel in midtown Manhattan. At one point, Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs could be seen having an animated conversation with deputy commissioner Bill Daly outside the negotiating room. Meantime, players paced the halls while speaking on their cellphones.
Even though the specific details of the new offers weren't known, one aspect revealed another hurdle the sides have to cross -- the length of the deal. The league's proposal called for a 10-year term while the NHLPA continued to favour a shorter contract, according to sources.
With tensions rising, commissioner Gary Bettman and NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr kept themselves out of negotiation sessions for a second straight day. However, Bettman did provide a brief update to reporters after a two-hour gathering of the Board of Governors, saying he was "pleased" with how things were progressing.
That was about all he was willing to reveal.
"We are pleased with the process that is ongoing and out of respect for that process I don't have anything else to say and I'm not going to take any questions," said Bettman.
The two sides have cleared their schedules for the rest of the week after successfully getting an adjournment from Quebec Labour Board hearings that had been scheduled in Montreal for Thursday and Friday. That panel will only hear arguments about the legality of locking out members of the Canadiens if a deal can't be reached in the near future.
There was a sense that remained a possibility following the first gathering of NHL owners since the lockout was enacted in September.
"We feel good about the information we got," said Columbus Blue Jackets president John Davidson.
Toronto Maple Leafs minority owner Larry Tanenbaum is one of six owners who became involved in the talks this week.
"As long as we're talking, we're hopeful," he said.
According to sources, the owners discussed a possible season that would span 50-plus games. There had been talk of a 60-game schedule in the event of a labour settlement, but the feeling among the group was that it would be too ambitious at this stage.
Progress appeared to be made during more than eight hours of meetings on Tuesday that ended with NHLPA special counsel Steve Fehr describing it as the best day yet in talks. It was difficult to carry that momentum through a second long day, especially with the league and union trading specific proposals and looking for compromise.


Read more: http://www.montrealg...l#ixzz2EEVFxOoG
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#4017 WHL rocks

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:08 PM

Looks like it will be approx. 50 game season starting around Xmas.

Edit. 13 mins into after dinner meeting owners are out. This negotiation thing is more exciting than some of actual NHL games.

Edited by WHL rocks, 05 December 2012 - 07:11 PM.

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#4018 DeNiro

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:16 PM

Looks like it will be approx. 50 game season starting around Xmas.

Edit. 13 mins into after dinner meeting owners are out. This negotiation thing is more exciting than some of actual NHL games.


They left after 13 minutes? That's not a good sign...
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#4019 poetica

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:18 PM

Sides exchange proposals

Meanwhile, the Quebec Labour Relations Board granted a joint request from the NHL and NHLPA to postpone the hearing that was slated to take place Thursday and Friday, a source confirmed to ESPNNewYork.com. The hearing has been adjourned while the two sides focus on continued bargaining.


That's the most hopeful news I've heard yet.
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#4020 Pears

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:19 PM

They left after 13 minutes? That's not a good sign...

They could have agreed to a deal if they left after that short of time. Although I'm sure we would have heard something about that by now.
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