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#31 tas

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:03 AM

Hmmm... you might want to reconsider acting like such an arrogant dog-doodie. The facts actually suggest the opposite. He has made a career by picking up guys from the bottom of the heap where other teams haven't had interest.

Some scraps that Gillis picked up who are currently on our roster:

Tanev
Lapierre
Higgins
Volpatti
Weise


tanev isn't scraps, he was a late bloomer that other teams also would have found.

weise was the last roster cut made by one of the leagues best teams and they were really hoping he'd clear waivers.

volpatti is a depth forward signed out of college. not scraps at all.

higgins and lapierre are scraps, and also huge flukes that they panned out.

#32 Jai604

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:04 AM

I don't understand what the hell Tallon is doing. A 5th round pick? Great trade for LA.

Low-risk, possible high-reward move for the Kings.

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#33 DeNiro

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:06 AM

I do not understand this.
Do you mean ready to play for Florida or ready to be traded (please)?


He's ready to be taken off IR and put back into Florida's lineup.

Edited by DeNiro, 08 February 2013 - 11:09 AM.

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#34 Dogbyte

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:15 AM

florida got no common sense they need defense y they trade?


flo go lots ds gets bling is no bigs has somes es good boths

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#35 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:20 AM

I guess it is basically a 3 way trade. LA just turned the 5th they got for Loktionov into a big, young defenseman. Nothing lost here, and lots of possibilities to gain.

You guys can rag on Ellerby all you want, but he's a steady D-man with the ability to physically punish opponents. He was a reliable defender on a team that featured offensive first defensemen such as: Campbell, Jovanovski, Kulikov and Kuba.

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#36 Provost

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:35 AM

tanev isn't scraps, he was a late bloomer that other teams also would have found.

weise was the last roster cut made by one of the leagues best teams and they were really hoping he'd clear waivers.

volpatti is a depth forward signed out of college. not scraps at all.

higgins and lapierre are scraps, and also huge flukes that they panned out.


More poor logic by you to try to salvage a terrible earlier post and some deeply flawed thinking. You are regularly insulting to other CDC members which is amusing considering almost inevitably you are wrong and they are right.

Anyone on waivers is scraps by definition. The fact that they turn out to be useful doesn't change the fact that they were waiver scraps.

Tanev wasn't picked up by another team, he had no ties to Vancouver. You are making a statement based on complete supposition. Even if one were to believe that you had personal insight into alternative realities... Gillis and his staff saw the potential in Tanev before anyone else had interest and scooped him up. That means he saw the value when no one else did. Same with Volpatti.

Even if you entirely dismiss the fact that the Canucks staff saw something in Higgins and Lapierre that could be useful and suggest that they simply randomly picked them up and they happened to work out (which is a dumb argument for you to make)... it doesn't help your point where you say that MG isn't in the habit of picking up scraps. He did pick them up and they were scraps at the time. How they turned out it entirely irrelevant to your original point (which remains entirely wrong).

You somehow mistake your ability to bluster and be insulting for actual logic and knowledge.

Edited by Provost, 08 February 2013 - 11:39 AM.

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#37 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:45 AM

What's with all these 5th rounder's being dealt?

You'd think Ellerby could fetch more than that..


Shows no one knows player value on this site.

#38 DeNiro

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:54 AM

Shows no one knows player value on this site.


Do people honestly believe this guy could have fetched a 2nd or 3rd rounder?

He got bumped from a D-core that includes Weaver, Strachan, and a 36 year old Filip Kuba.

Alberts is better than Ellerby believe it or not. And he went for a 3rd round pick.

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#39 N4ZZY

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:11 PM

Can't believe Ellerby went for a 5th round pick.

What's Tallon thinking? LOL. He got ripped off.

#40 Rey

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:47 PM

Florida was probably going to waive Ellerby anyways. It's better to just trade the kid, so he can get a get a desperately needed change of scenery. 5th seems to be undervalue, but they are trading for potential. Still a big kid that can skate. Could very well end up on waivers later this year.

Edited by Rey, 08 February 2013 - 12:47 PM.


#41 RockNroLLa.

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:02 PM

florida got no common sense they need defense y they trade?


They need Lu :)

#42 TheFame

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:18 PM

It was put up or shut up for Ellerby. He shut up. Gudbranson is back and when you're out played by Strachan and Weaver, it's time to move on.

Having said that, I'm confused as to why we didn't make a trade for Loktionov before he went to NJ. I'd rather that and Dineen grow a sack and bench Weaver. A 5th seems cheap and as another poster said, I wonder if there is something in the works that Tallon just made an open spot for?

#43 D-Money

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:32 PM

Hmmm... you might want to reconsider acting like such an arrogant dog-doodie.  The facts actually suggest the opposite.  He has made a career by picking up guys from the bottom of the heap where other teams haven't had interest.

Some scraps that Gillis picked up who are currently on our roster:

Tanev
Lapierre
Higgins
Volpatti
Weise


Tanev a "scrap"? That other teams weren't interested in?

You are way off on that one. Not to mention Higgins, who a lot of teams probably inquired about as a rental.

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#44 Dion Phaneuf

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:52 PM

That's about how much he's worth IMO.

- depth d-man (6th - 8th)
- stands up for teammates

Edited by The Phaneuf Train, 08 February 2013 - 01:54 PM.

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#45 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:59 PM

More poor logic by you to try to salvage a terrible earlier post and some deeply flawed thinking. You are regularly insulting to other CDC members which is amusing considering almost inevitably you are wrong and they are right.

Anyone on waivers is scraps by definition. The fact that they turn out to be useful doesn't change the fact that they were waiver scraps.

Tanev wasn't picked up by another team, he had no ties to Vancouver. You are making a statement based on complete supposition. Even if one were to believe that you had personal insight into alternative realities... Gillis and his staff saw the potential in Tanev before anyone else had interest and scooped him up. That means he saw the value when no one else did. Same with Volpatti.

Even if you entirely dismiss the fact that the Canucks staff saw something in Higgins and Lapierre that could be useful and suggest that they simply randomly picked them up and they happened to work out (which is a dumb argument for you to make)... it doesn't help your point where you say that MG isn't in the habit of picking up scraps. He did pick them up and they were scraps at the time. How they turned out it entirely irrelevant to your original point (which remains entirely wrong).

You somehow mistake your ability to bluster and be insulting for actual logic and knowledge.


Tanev actually did have 1 tie here and that was Dave Gagner who pushed at Gillis until he signed him. I believe he had a few other offers from teams as well. And Lappy had some ties here to with AV coaching him in juniors

#46 Yotes

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:01 PM

with the trading history between us and florida. I would have loved for us to pick this player up at that price.

It gives us even more depth and the flexibilityt to move Ballard to a team who could use him, and truth be told I think we could get a decent return for him now. but if defensemen keep getting traded the market will start to shrink a bit.

still think detroit is the best fit for Ballard, and im sure he would excel their

#47 D-Money

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:06 PM

More poor logic by you to try to salvage a terrible earlier post and some deeply flawed thinking.  You are regularly insulting to other CDC members which is amusing considering almost inevitably you are wrong and they are right.

Anyone on waivers is scraps by definition.  The fact that they turn out to be useful doesn't change the fact that they were waiver scraps.

Tanev wasn't picked up by another team, he had no ties to Vancouver.  You are making a statement based on complete supposition.  Even if one were to believe that you had personal insight into alternative realities... Gillis and his staff saw the potential in Tanev before anyone else had interest and scooped him up.  That means he saw the value when no one else did.  Same with Volpatti.

Even if you entirely dismiss the fact that the Canucks staff saw something in Higgins and Lapierre that could be useful and suggest that they simply randomly picked them up and they happened to work out (which is a dumb argument for you to make)... it doesn't help your point where you say that MG isn't in the habit of picking up scraps.  He did pick them up and they were scraps at the time.  How they turned out it entirely irrelevant to your original point (which remains entirely wrong).

You somehow mistake your ability to bluster and be insulting for actual logic and knowledge.


From Tanev's Wikipedia page:

During the NCAA tournament, Tanev was scouted by Vancouver Canucks director of player development Dave Gagner, who was previously acquainted with Tanev as his childhood roller hockey coach. The Canucks scouting staff collectively identified him as "the smartest player on the ice" in the East Regional segment of the tournament.[3] On May 31, 2010, Tanev signed as an undrafted free agent with the Canucks, foregoing his final three years of college hockey eligibility.[5] He had received interest from at least three other teams, including the San Jose Sharks, Ottawa Senators and Columbus Blue Jackets, but ultimately chose Vancouver.[2]



As for your last sentence...

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#48 Provost

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:09 PM

Tanev actually did have 1 tie here and that was Dave Gagner who pushed at Gillis until he signed him. I believe he had a few other offers from teams as well. And Lappy had some ties here to with AV coaching him in juniors


That is making my point. My argument is against the other guy's suggestion that the Canucks aren't in the habit of picking up fringe players (or scraps as he calls them) as reclamation projects. Two Canucks staff in these cases felt that there was value to be had and they threw the dice.

Presumably the Canucks staff didn't see the same potential in Ellerby... but to make the comment that the Canucks don't go after these types of guys is 100% wrong. Gillis has a definite strategy of looking at other ways to bring assets into the organization other than the draft. I don't know that there is a team in the league that spends more time looking at undrafted college kids to find potential talent.
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#49 King of the ES

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:10 PM

Do people honestly believe this guy could have fetched a 2nd or 3rd rounder?

He got bumped from a D-core that includes Weaver, Strachan, and a 36 year old Filip Kuba.

Alberts is better than Ellerby believe it or not. And he went for a 3rd round pick.


Out of curiosity, what do you think a guy like Yann Sauve would get us?

Edited by King of the ES, 08 February 2013 - 02:11 PM.


#50 playboi19

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:12 PM

Ellerby smellerby.

#51 Provost

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:21 PM

From Tanev's Wikipedia pag


You might want to consider actually reading the citation from the Wikipedia page that has you so worked up.

Vancouver’s a first-class organization,” said Tanev, the Rochester Institute of Technology (RIT) Tigers alumnus. “I’ve heard nothing but good things about the city and the organization and honestly, it just seemed like they wanted me the most."

Again, even your post makes my original point. The Canucks do spend a lot of effort looking for largely overlooked talent. The definition of "scraps" by this Tas dude include anyone the pedigree of Ellerby or below. By that definition, an undrafted college kid from a 3rd rate school that doesn't churn out any future NHLers (Tanev was their first player to ever play an NHL game)... definitely counts as "scraps"

Probably half the players in college hockey get some sniffs of "interest" from NHL organizations. This was most certainly not a situation like Schultz with teams bidding for his services. The Canucks went after an undrafted player who was at the time still very much a project in hopes of him turning out (which he did). You can go to our farm team and look at a probably a dozen more examples of this as well.

It is very well documented that Gillis uses a money puck strategy, which involves often getting assets that are valued low and creating something out of them. Are people arguing against that because their panties are in a knot when it is suggested that some of our players weren't exactly heralded 1st rounders when we acquired them... but instead was good organizational scouting?

Edited by Provost, 08 February 2013 - 02:58 PM.

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#52 Kyosama

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:21 PM

Do people honestly believe this guy could have fetched a 2nd or 3rd rounder?

He got bumped from a D-core that includes Weaver, Strachan, and a 36 year old Filip Kuba.

Alberts is better than Ellerby believe it or not. And he went for a 3rd round pick.


I know it's easy to find examples going either way, but Johnny Oduya, who is not a good defenceman, got traded for a 2nd and 3rd last year. I do believe Chicago got robbed on this deal, but I wouldn't rate Oduya much higher than Ellerby, if at all.

#53 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 03:25 PM

Career bottom pairing dman. If he's not going to succeed in Florida, he is unlikely to succeed. We didn't miss out on Anything, as he is behind Barker and Alberts on our depth. In other words. he sucks.

Personally a 5th round pick for him is too much. But it's a trade that is made only if your desperate. Looks like MItchell and Greene might be out longer. A team like Vancouver has no need for him.

Edited by MoneypuckOverlord, 08 February 2013 - 03:36 PM.

 

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#54 DeNiro

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:14 PM

Out of curiosity, what do you think a guy like Yann Sauve would get us?


Less than a 5th round pick at this point.

Not sure what Sauve has to do with Ellerby though.

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#55 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:59 PM

What did MG say?

"We are waiting on another team to settle something with one of there players"

Could this be that something? :bigblush:

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#56 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:03 PM

Out of curiosity, what do you think a guy like Yann Sauve would get us?


Probably nothing.

Maybe another soon-to-be bust like Kyle Beach.

Can't see anything tangible though.

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#57 canucklehead44

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:19 PM

Good move by the Kings. I am surprised Ellerby went for so little. 10th overall pick, still only 24 and has 125 games under his belt already. He was in the middle of the pack for +/- and shots on goal this season. 5th on the team for hits and blocked shots.

On the negative side, his relative Corsi was close to the worst on the team, he started 50% of the time in the offensive zone (keep in mind he is supposed to be a stay at home defender) and he took 3.5 penalties for every 60 minutes (by far the worst).

That said, I think he should have been worth at least a conditional 2nd/3rd round pick for LA (2nd round if he plays at least 20 games including playoffs).

Edited by canucklehead44, 08 February 2013 - 06:19 PM.

Sig too big.

#58 allkill326

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:22 PM

I think he could have been a good fit for the Oilers.
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#59 surtur

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:22 PM

He was taken 10th overall in 2007. People were saying the same things about Coburn when Philly acquired him back in the day. High pick, not performing to expectations, etc. Not saying that he'll turn out as good as Coburn, but I could easily foresee a Bryan Allen-esque career for Ellerby.

As for the Canucks, they wouldn't have any interest in him anyway. He's a WHL product.

isn't Hamhuis a WHL product 165% sure he played for the Prince George Cougars of the WHL. so there goes that theory .

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#60 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:47 PM

Do people honestly believe this guy could have fetched a 2nd or 3rd rounder?

He got bumped from a D-core that includes Weaver, Strachan, and a 36 year old Filip Kuba.

Alberts is better than Ellerby believe it or not. And he went for a 3rd round pick.


Normally DeNiro I agree but not this time.

2009-13

Andrew Alberts: 162 Games Played, 22 points, +3
Keaton Ellerby: 125 Games Played, 17 points, -7

Outside of plus/minus similar numbers, and Ellerby has played less games. So I'd say he's worth a 3rd rounder, 4th at worst.
And those numbers are in Florida.
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