Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
- - - - -

Summer not the time to trade big contracts, this year!

Discussion

  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 janisahockeynut

janisahockeynut

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 788 posts
  • Joined: 19-October 11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 03:19 PM

As the posts suggests, I don't think this summer will be a great time to trade our big contracts. If any of the players that been offered up in trades by CDC ( Luongo, Boothe, Ballard and Raymond) were to be traded, I just don't think we will get that solid return, here is why I think so........

First of all, after checking with Capgeek, there are 16 teams that are $8,000,000 or closer to this years Cap of 70 million. In that group many have players that will be getting their first year on their new contract next year, which have a increase and isn't really factered into this years cap stats. We have our own in Edler where he's going from 3,750,00 to 5,000,000 in 2013-2014

And just like this January, this coming summer is going to be a mess, with some very difficult decissions having to be made. There will be even more Juniors and AHLer's playing, just to keep that Cap down.

Now of the remaining 14 teams that are 12 million or more under the cap, there will be 3 or 4 that will have self imposed low budget Caps, as they do now.

This will make it hard to dump those large contracts, and will result in some teams that just can't get rid of their large contract, just buying them out, and dumping them.

What I think is that you had better be ahead of the rest with your trades, if you want value ....of any kind!
It will be a buyers market!

Anyways, that is my thoughts on the subject, what I really want to know is what CDC thinks this summer will be like in terms of trades, buy outs, etc, and how that will affect the Canucks in general.
I would love to hear your ideas on this subject.........I think it impacts our future, what about you?

Edited by zcaptain, 13 February 2013 - 03:21 PM.

  • 0

#2 Jägermeister

Jägermeister

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,217 posts
  • Joined: 24-May 12

Posted 13 February 2013 - 03:25 PM

At least one of either Booth, Ballard, or Luongo will have to go if we want to make a major addition to improve our roster in the offseason.
Of course if all goes well this year and no needs really need to be addresed, then we might be okay just letting Manny go or signing him back at a reduced price.

Edited by Jägermeister, 13 February 2013 - 03:26 PM.

  • 0

Jagermeister.jpg


#3 Rey

Rey

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,654 posts
  • Joined: 07-March 09

Posted 13 February 2013 - 03:30 PM

I'm pretty sure, no one knows what is the market value for anything right now so everyone will stay put until the first domino goes down. Waiting for summer is a must, because the goal right now is to win the cup and be the best you can possibly be. It's fine if you don't get full value in a trade, the cap aspect of it all will be more crucial than before, if I'm correct you can trade cap space now? I'm sure this team will be happy to just dump a contract in summer, without getting anything back. It's summer, that leaves a lot of options open.
  • 0

#4 pwnstar

pwnstar

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,311 posts
  • Joined: 20-January 10

Posted 13 February 2013 - 03:33 PM

I think there'll be a lot of moves this summer. Maybe no big splashes (other than lu). I believe washington and Columbus have a lot of work to do. Oh yah, Iginla may get scooped.

Im looking for Vancouver and washington to make the biggest moves this summer.
  • 0

Posted Image


#5 janisahockeynut

janisahockeynut

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 788 posts
  • Joined: 19-October 11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 03:37 PM

I'm pretty sure, no one knows what is the market value for anything right now so everyone will stay put until the first domino goes down. Waiting for summer is a must, because the goal right now is to win the cup and be the best you can possibly be. It's fine if you don't get full value in a trade, the cap aspect of it all will be more crucial than before, if I'm correct you can trade cap space now? I'm sure this team will be happy to just dump a contract in summer, without getting anything back. It's summer, that leaves a lot of options open.


I guess, I am just greedy and think that getting futures and picks, could come easier now than later. Just dropping a player like Boothe, or Ballard just doesn't sit well without getting anything back for them...Ballards just starting to play up to snuff after 3 years, go figure!.......Reality sucks!.........Don't think Manny's coming back though.
  • 0

#6 Rey

Rey

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,654 posts
  • Joined: 07-March 09

Posted 13 February 2013 - 03:43 PM

I guess, I am just greedy and think that getting futures and picks, could come easier now than later. Just dropping a player like Boothe, or Ballard just doesn't sit well without getting anything back for them...Ballards just starting to play up to snuff after 3 years, go figure!.......Reality sucks!.........Don't think Manny's coming back though.


Well you can still be optimistic. Niklas Jensen is looking real good, and if the team thinks he's ready. He'll bring something different to this team, but Booth or Raymond will be gone, but I'm not too worried. Jensen is going to a hell of a player to watch. Then, there's Kassian who looks like he could use a bigger role. The core of this Canuck team is set, its just the bottom six, bottom pairs that are concerning. The cap space will do this team real good. Allow us to stay competitive, those prospects and picks don't always turn out and we're in win now mode. No one will care about anything, if this team wins a cup.

Edited by Rey, 13 February 2013 - 03:47 PM.

  • 0

#7 Maniwaki Canuck

Maniwaki Canuck

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 927 posts
  • Joined: 30-December 10

Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:02 PM

With a 6 million drop in the cap plus a 1.75 million raise for Edler and a 2.5 million raise for Burrows, we are going to drop 10.25 million in payroll from our current lineup. So that is probably two of Booth, Ballard and Luongo, although we might squeak through by letting Alberts, Malhotra, Raymond and Higgins walk as UFAs. Somehow I don't see any major addition to our roster coming. Moving one of the goalies for picks and prospects would help us meet the cap challenge without buying people out, but MG still seems to be demanding full value including a roster player. Another way to go would be to stand pat with what we've got, try to win the SC, do whatever trades and buyouts we need to get under the cap in the summer, and maybe create enough space that we can sign some other good players that are going to get cut loose for cap reasons to replace the ones we'll be losing. Really this whole situation is stupid, just another way to penalize well-run teams in the name of parity. Those of you who supported the owners better not whine when we get nothing for Lu and Ballard this summer.

At least one of either Booth, Ballard, or Luongo will have to go if we want to make a major addition to improve our roster in the offseason.
Of course if all goes well this year and no needs really need to be addresed, then we might be okay just letting Manny go or signing him back at a reduced price.


  • 0

#8 Nuxfanabroad

Nuxfanabroad

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,658 posts
  • Joined: 10-May 07

Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:11 PM

zcaptain, I agree with the notion you've stated here. Based on this situation(not to mention MG/Gilman seem pretty sharp), I believe we'll see at least one large contract(Lou, Ballard, or Booth) dealt by the deadline.

Basically do we trade-off insurance with more depth, as opposed to a cheaper return this summer? Hoping they acquire more youth/size before PO's, myself.
  • 0

#9 stawns

stawns

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,206 posts
  • Joined: 10-August 03

Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:11 PM

I tend to agree here and though I'm ok with having both goalies for the season, MG is probably going to lose a fair amount of Lu's value in the summer. IMO, he's more attractive to teams now than in July
  • 0

#10 Spitfire_Spiky

Spitfire_Spiky

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 765 posts
  • Joined: 28-March 09

Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:12 PM

It wouldn't surprise me if teams with Buyouts to spare use them to as leverage in trades.

For instance lets say we have Team A and Team B
Team A is near the cap and needs to trade away large contracts or buy them out.
Team B hasn't used a compliance buyout and doesn't need to as they have managed there contracts well.

If Team A were to bundle an unwanted player they planned to buyout and a decent player(one that Team B is interested in), Team B may be able to acquire the decent player at a reduced price simply because they are taking the large contract of the unwanted player in the deal. With the extra buyouts they have they can now buy out the unwanted players contract and essential got the player they wanted.
  • 0
Mess with the Best, Die like the Rest

#11 Ray_Cathode

Ray_Cathode

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,823 posts
  • Joined: 07-September 07

Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:12 PM

Well you can still be optimistic. Niklas Jensen is looking real good, and if the team thinks he's ready. He'll bring something different to this team, but Booth or Raymond will be gone, but I'm not too worried. Jensen is going to a hell of a player to watch. Then, there's Kassian who looks like he could use a bigger role. The core of this Canuck team is set, its just the bottom six, bottom pairs that are concerning. The cap space will do this team real good. Allow us to stay competitive, those prospects and picks don't always turn out and we're in win now mode. No one will care about anything, if this team wins a cup.


Raymond is going nowhere - the Canucks will keep him, and so they should.
  • 0

#12 MattJVD

MattJVD

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 357 posts
  • Joined: 24-January 11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:19 PM

Sedin (6.1) Sedin (6.1) Burrows (4.5)
Booth (4.5)/Jensen (0.89) Kesler (5) Kassian (0.87)

Hamhuis (4.5) Bieksa (4.6)
Edler ( 5) Garrison (4.6)

Lou (5.333) or Schneider (4)

Thats between 42.16 and 47.1 in the top 6 + top 4 d + 1 starting goaly. Leaving between 22 and 17 mil for a bottem 6, bottem d pair and back up. That is certainly do-able, I'm not to concerned about it we aren't going to have to blow up the team to fit in the cap. We might not get the best possible return for Lou or Ballard, but I don't think we will have to resort to a buy out.

We do have a huge amount of free agents though. It's sad to say but I think we are going to have to let some of them walk..
  • 0

#13 406281dylan

406281dylan

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 917 posts
  • Joined: 26-July 11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:23 PM

u know who is going to get traded...... David booth
  • 3

#14 Rey

Rey

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,654 posts
  • Joined: 07-March 09

Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:37 PM

Raymond is going nowhere - the Canucks will keep him, and so they should.


Depends, he's a 3rd liner on this team. If he wants top six money, he shouldn't be re-signed. He doesn't gel with Kesler at all. You simply can't re-sign a guy who only plays in contract years to a long term contract. Some other team will offer him more money to play a bigger role. Jensen will fit fine with Schroeder and Hansen.

Edited by Rey, 13 February 2013 - 04:46 PM.

  • 0

#15 Bertuzzipunch

Bertuzzipunch

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 956 posts
  • Joined: 09-November 09

Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:38 PM

TRADE ALL THE PLAYERS!!!

Posted Image
  • 0

Posted Image


#16 janisahockeynut

janisahockeynut

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 788 posts
  • Joined: 19-October 11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:47 PM

Just another question.....Is the 64.5 million a hard cap for next year, or if there is growth, does that cap move for 2013-2014? So, if there is somehow growth this year, does the cap move up? Kinda silly question, but does anyone know the answer, considering we are in year one of the new Collective Agreement.
  • 0

#17 Millerdraft

Millerdraft

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,509 posts
  • Joined: 02-March 04

Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:56 PM

http://capgeek.com/?charts_year=2013

This link suggests there will be more teams scrambling to hit the $44m cap floor than teams struggling to squeeze under the $64.3m celing.
  • 0

Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#18 Canada Hockey Place

Canada Hockey Place

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,625 posts
  • Joined: 03-February 08

Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

Just another question.....Is the 64.5 million a hard cap for next year, or if there is growth, does that cap move for 2013-2014? So, if there is somehow growth this year, does the cap move up? Kinda silly question, but does anyone know the answer, considering we are in year one of the new Collective Agreement.


I've read it does depend on growth. But it's hard to imagine it will impact that quickly. And also since the floor is locked for the next 2 seasons, shows the league doesn't expect the mid point to change till 2014-15.

This article shows the difference the rate of growth could change the cap.

http://www.theglobea...article7029575/
  • 1
Quando omni flunkus moritati

#19 janisahockeynut

janisahockeynut

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 788 posts
  • Joined: 19-October 11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:10 PM

http://capgeek.com/?charts_year=2013

This link suggests there will be more teams scrambling to hit the $44m cap floor than teams struggling to squeeze under the $64.3m celing.


Not if I read that right..............explanation......2013-2014 NYI have 12 players under contract for a total of 29,000,000
they will need another 11 to 13 players under contract for
another 15,000,000 to reach the cap....not hard at all!

Pheonix has 10 players under contract for a total of 32,000,000

They are 2 of the bottom 3 low cap teams for next year..............no one will have problems reaching the cap
  • 0

#20 janisahockeynut

janisahockeynut

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 788 posts
  • Joined: 19-October 11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:11 PM

I've read it does depend on growth. But it's hard to imagine it will impact that quickly. And also since the floor is locked for the next 2 seasons, shows the league doesn't expect the mid point to change till 2014-15.

This article shows the difference the rate of growth could change the cap.

http://www.theglobea...article7029575/

Thanks great article......But it would serve them right if it moved faster! LOL

Edited by zcaptain, 13 February 2013 - 05:17 PM.

  • 0

#21 Millerdraft

Millerdraft

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,509 posts
  • Joined: 02-March 04

Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:18 PM

Not if I read that right..............explanation......2013-2014 NYI have 12 players under contract for a total of 29,000,000
they will need another 11 to 13 players under contract for
another 15,000,000 to reach the cap....not hard at all!

Pheonix has 10 players under contract for a total of 32,000,000

They are 2 of the bottom 3 low cap teams for next year..............no one will have problems reaching the cap


You do realize that the bottom teams on that list are NOT desirable destinations for UFAs, yes?

Sure, those teams could pull a Tallon/Panthers' summer of '11 and pay 3rd & 4th liners at a top-six player's salary just to hit the floor but is that the best usage of their scrooge-like owner's dollars and will they have the same impact, year in - year out, that Luongo will?

Edited by Millerdraft, 13 February 2013 - 05:20 PM.

  • 0

Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#22 janisahockeynut

janisahockeynut

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 788 posts
  • Joined: 19-October 11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:51 PM

You do realize that the bottom teams on that list are NOT desirable destinations for UFAs, yes?

Sure, those teams could pull a Tallon/Panthers' summer of '11 and pay 3rd & 4th liners at a top-six player's salary just to hit the floor but is that the best usage of their scrooge-like owner's dollars and will they have the same impact, year in - year out, that Luongo will?


I do realize they are somewhat undesirable destinations, but even if they resign their own players, they will all be over the cap floor, and I can't argue the value of Luongo, only that other teams may want to clear room also, such as St.Louis and LA, not to mention Tim Thomas, and there could be others.

I am only saying that GM's will have a greater choice and may decide to go cheaper or younger , or older! LOL Remember Kipper is out there too! The point is 16 teams will be cutting/moving players to the lesser teams, and how much room and cash is there, just saying.

Maybe Van can pick up a player as well, but we will have less wiggle room for immediate help under those circumstances, I mean do you cut/trade/move an extra player, just so you are in the game and may be able to pick up a better player? I don't think so, but what do I know! Remember we can't hide them in the minors anymore.
  • 0

#23 bobopan

bobopan

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,530 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 05

Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:46 PM

I think it would be best to have the Luongo saga ended by the trade deadline..i know ppl would love to see Luongo stay here till the summer but i can't possibly see a team offering any more then than the offers would be now.. I can see Ballard being moved for a decent asset in the off-season assuming he can keep this play up.. my idea of decent is probably far different from most thinking but a 2nd round pick seems about right and the talk at the beginning of the season was to buy him out so any asset really is a plus.
  • 0

#24 Ugli Fruit

Ugli Fruit

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,872 posts
  • Joined: 23-June 09

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:04 PM

Ideal or not some of those contracts have to be moved in the Summer. If we can't afford them then we have to move them, no matter the circumstances.
  • 0

Formerly known as LordofBrussels

There we have it folks, we have literally blamed everyone for everything at this point


Posted Image
Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image
Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image


#25 Hunter.S-Kerouac

Hunter.S-Kerouac

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,662 posts
  • Joined: 20-October 11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:53 PM

delete post

Edited by honey badger36, 13 February 2013 - 09:54 PM.

  • 0





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Discussion

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.