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Chinese Signs Out Of Hand in Richmond Says Petition


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#61 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 05:55 PM

But Wet, you left out the "while..." part. That part's important too.

;)

It's all about finding a balance and compromise and that is becoming a lost art.

I find that many Canadians being bombarded by American culture and attitudes, do not appreciate the signficiant differences in out heritage, culture, government and laws.

The point I am making is that on private property people should be free to use whatever languages and signage they may choose as long as they are in compliance with human rights codes. We have more than enough regulatory legislation, we do not need more.

Personally I have never had a problem in any business in Richmond even when my Mandarin speaking significant other is absent.
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#62 sedated

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 06:06 PM

Well, some people will think it's silly that because one province is heavily french orientated that every province has to go through it in school, on top of having like every product ever of food and drink and labelling and instructions to have it included. Why is it exactly even considered a main language of Canada if really only ONE province really uses it? I mean hell, with the growing rate of Chinese in BC, does that mean chinese will soon be an official language of Canada, because one province has so much of it? I mean, I'm sure there is probably some good older reason for it being required or recognized as a canadian language, but.. why is it being enforced the way it is in every other province?
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#63 Magikal

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 06:24 PM

Normally i am against any kind of government intervention but it has gotten to a point where new Canadians are not learning our languages, cultures and ways of life and are staying ignorant of Canadian ways. This is an English and French speaking country, you MUST learn one of those two languages if you are to become a Canadian and be integrated into society (in my opinion.) To not do so only promotes segregation and division. We are a nation built on multiculturalism and immigration but we need to take a stand on bending so much to make newcomers feel so comfortable. We need to strongly promote new Canadians integrating with society at all points including language, laws, accepting of other lifestyles (homosexuality for example) etc. Religion is basically one of the few things that is hands off.

The last thing I want to see are signs in foreign languages everywhere. it only promotes them to remain ignorant of our culture, laws, languages etc.
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#64 Common sense

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 07:45 PM

It got out of hand 20 years ago with Aberdeen Centre.


And since then, Aberdeen Centre mall administrators have made huge strides in bridging the two cultures together - see: the rule that all front-door signage must have 70% of it in English/French.
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#65 Common sense

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 07:50 PM

To save time, I'll post here what I already posted on my Facebook wall about this issue:



That's the consequence of this free market - a business can pick and choose who to serve so long as it does not infringe upon any Charter violations. If businesses decide they want to cater to Cantonese/Mandarin speaking-only people, they make the financial risk of doing so. So long as the business doesn't have a sign on their front door saying "no gwailo," there's no legal violation.

Is it a stupid move? Probably - 40% of Richmond residents don't speak Cantonese or Mandarin, and given the amount of Vancouverites that come to Richmond for food and shopping, that's a lot of people that these Chinese-catered businesses are missing out on. On the flip side, we've seen what happens when government intervenes and imposes "culture" (bonjour, loi 101 et l'Office québécois de la langue française). It's fair of me to say we don't need language police coming to businesses and inspecting the lingua franca of the store, whether it be Canto/Mando, English, French, or Punjabi.
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#66 Common sense

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 07:53 PM

Normally i am against any kind of government intervention but it has gotten to a point where new Canadians are not learning our languages, cultures and ways of life and are staying ignorant of Canadian ways. This is an English and French speaking country, you MUST learn one of those two languages if you are to become a Canadian and be integrated into society (in my opinion.) To not do so only promotes segregation and division. We are a nation built on multiculturalism and immigration but we need to take a stand on bending so much to make newcomers feel so comfortable. We need to strongly promote new Canadians integrating with society at all points including language, laws, accepting of other lifestyles (homosexuality for example) etc. Religion is basically one of the few things that is hands off.

The last thing I want to see are signs in foreign languages everywhere. it only promotes them to remain ignorant of our culture, laws, languages etc.


Ahh yes...the ol' us vs "them" spiel. Let me introduce you to this book...I think you'll find it fascinating:

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#67 CanuckGAME

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 08:03 PM

It got out of hand 20 years ago with Aberdeen Centre.


I grew up in vacouver and moved to kamloops 6 years ago, myself and my girlfriend took a trip and stayed in Richmond, I have never been to Aberdeen centre before, so decided to take her there shopping LOL biggest mistake of my life, we walked through the mall and felt like we were in a different country, so we proceeded to the nearest exit and took a cab to metro town.
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#68 Buggernut

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 09:16 PM

I grew up in vacouver and moved to kamloops 6 years ago, myself and my girlfriend took a trip and stayed in Richmond, I have never been to Aberdeen centre before, so decided to take her there shopping LOL biggest mistake of my life, we walked through the mall and felt like we were in a different country, so we proceeded to the nearest exit and took a cab to metro town.


Because Asians are all zombies out to gorge on human flesh.
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#69 Buggernut

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 09:18 PM

I find that many Canadians being bombarded by American culture and attitudes, do not appreciate the signficiant differences in out heritage, culture, government and laws.

The point I am making is that on private property people should be free to use whatever languages and signage they may choose as long as they are in compliance with human rights codes. We have more than enough regulatory legislation, we do not need more.

Personally I have never had a problem in any business in Richmond even when my Mandarin speaking significant other is absent.


How about product labelling? If something contains peanuts or cyanide, it should say so in one of our official languages, no?
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#70 CanuckGAME

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 09:28 PM

Because Asians are all zombies out to gorge on human flesh.


Actually I was talking about all the "hello kitty" fashion, and the entire mall is full blown Chinese. They may as well have put the prices in Yuen instead of dollars.
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#71 masutheakita

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:16 PM

Actually I was talking about all the "hello kitty" fashion, and the entire mall is full blown Chinese. They may as well have put the prices in Yuen instead of dollars.


What is the current exchange rate for 1 Yuen to CAD?

Edited by masutheakita, 16 March 2013 - 10:17 PM.

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#72 Raffi Torres's Smirk

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:18 PM

I've been at "that bank" for 30 years and my mortgage is there. I have no problem with Chinese signs, but have English also so I know what the hell is going on. And Wet, certainly private property owners are entitled to do what they please, but it's doing them a disservice to not cater to all. And is that really the way? - to not give a hoot? Works for us and it's our property? To not try to extend invitation to everyone in an effort to join together as a community? It's not really happening that way here.

I could play Rage Against the Machine at 3 in afternoon on my (private) deck every day but I don't because I care that those around me are comfortable and happy too. Richmond was always a community of "neighbours" that went out of their way to be friendly and accomodating to one another and to now say "private property - we don't care about you" is not something I welcome. It's very much an "all about me" attitude.

So is the important message of embracing everyone around us not somehow being lost here? Believe me, that's something that always made me feel special about the place I call home...I've never experienced this before. And it's nothing about racism - I grew up with mostly Japanese friends/neighbours. Native families (my Mom's best Bingo friends). We had people from Nigeria and Africa as neighbours...we all were family and worked together for mutual happiness. It takes a village stuff. We've always had a very diverse group in the community with people here from all over the world but there is definitely a feeling of entitlement that is new and unwelcoming. Gweilo license plate mentality that has no place here. We've had to deal with that and it's something new. It's not something we just cooked up because we're racists...it's a climate that is changing and not entirely in a positive way. There are kinks here. When people start to speak out and it just happens to involve a specific group of people, it doesn't mean their focus is not valid or it's a problem within them. But that's what happens - people throw up labels and stick their heads in the sand. All is not perfect, so why is it wrong to address it? Because feelings are hurt? Mine are important too.

It's not related to racism - that's just a good way for people to ignore sensitive issues that they don't want to look at. I attribute much of it to $$ that is now finding it's way here more than anything. But we're all of equal value as neighbours...that's an important message to remember. And to make everyone feel welcome makes it a better place for everyone...it's a two sided coin.


I'm not saying what they're doing is correct, or even morally justifiable. I'm saying that what they're doing is legal, and even though I don't agree with their actions I will defend their right for self determination.

If I was an entrepreneur I would want to do whatever I wanted in my store. If I wanted a crazy Startrek themed restaurant and my signs and menus were all in klingon, thats my judgement call to make, not my neighbors. If I am severely reducing my clientele base by excluding people, it is my business that will fail, not my neighbors.

Let them be they aren't hurting you, theres no law saying everyone must include everyone for everything. If there were street signs, or something else coming from government, that was in another language than english or french, then people in this thread would have a reason to complain, and I'd be there with you. But as far as I can tell this is not the case, so you should all learn a little empathy.
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#73 debluvscanucks

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:30 PM

Here's what's important to remember: racism is not acceptable. With that, people are quick to pull that card but it sometimes is a matter of discussion that involves race, but it doesn't make it racism. Just as some would sit down together for a drink, it doesn't mean it's alcoholism. Discussion is an important part of learning, understanding, calling on emapthy and patience and having people see things from sides other than their own (including me). So don't rule out discussion that stems from cultural differences and struggles...how on Earth can you "fix" problems if you're expected to ignore them? Bring people together if they can't communicate? If people feel frustrated, what better way to get to the bottom of that and try to resolve it than by examining it and trying to figure things out? But you're not allowed to do that it seems. Which is what some are suggesting.

People in Richmond have been a happy lot who seemingly love the little Island Community by nature and everyone is welcome. We love food - there are lots of different types to try. We love celebrations and have not one but several "New Years" celebrations. We thrive on making our differences something that makes us special - because we simply have more to offer in including everyone in the mix. It's always been a "community" feel but lately some of that is being lost. Is it one particular group of people responsible for that? No, of course not...in it being a beautiful location with the major airport located here, it's bound to draw people.

But to those who don't live here to know first hand, there certainly have been some recent struggles. Not long ago, some were bold in proclaiming how they feel about their arrival here with license plates that had the word "Gweido" on them. I'd never heard of that before. I wish I never had. Something new. Something concerning. Something there is no place for. People will quickly retort "a few bad apples" and suggest profiling and stereotyping...but it was in numbers...enough so that it made the news and had to be addressed. Hatred has no place here. Or anywhere. So do we just pretend that didn't happen? It makes people uneasy and take a defensive stance. That's how horrible divides start. But we'll let that one go because it is a few bad apples.

There were then letters to the editor of the local paper and full page articles that professed that "we don't want to assimilate and only want to educate our children here or use the medical system for our elderly". Those are quotes extracted from actual letters sent in to the local paper. "We have no intention of making this our home. I really do hope the Canadians can come to the realization that we are here not because we wanted to be Canadian, but simply because we like the resource this country provides to us".

There was recently an MP led press conference, but she made it clear it was for "Chinese only" media. Really? How is that "multi" cultural or giving everyone a fair shake? When leaders are pandering to one particular group of people, that's a problem.

These are hard pills to swallow. When there are wait lists a mile long for surgeries and we have overcrowded classrooms, of course this doesn't sit well. People are already frustrated so learning that there are those who want to use the resources but don't consider this home is cause for concern.

These are real issues. Of course, this isn't the first time this has ever happened....people do this all the time. People head off to Florida as they age, in order to take advantage of the warmer climate. Many here head across the border to gas up and get groceries because they're cheaper. Shoot down to Bellingham for back to school shopping and invade the malls there. It's also created problems and it's no secret that people get frustrated in these situations. They get territorial and protective and it's more of a natural reaction than anything. So we're all guilty of taking advantage of opportunities available in other places from time to time and it certainly is no crime. But it upsets people - and that's ok too.

So it's all about how you do it. If you show a complete disregard for those around you, it's bound to create friction and bad feelings. So it's all about tact and making an effort with a friendly approach. Reaching out to one another. Understanding the feelings of others and trying to work together. Being tolerant and patient at times.

People are quick to slam one another but a little tolerance from all sides is usually in order to make progress. So allow those who may feel slightly trampled on to voice that...it's not wrong to outwardly voice displeasure or discontent. It's actually quite healthy, because you're expressing it rather than acting on it.

This petition is part of that...people want their say. And last time I checked, in this great country we're still allowing for that.

(and sorry for the length of this, but I feel strongly about the right to be honest and open in discussion...even if it's uneasy for some...it's how you identify and resolve problems. Wet, this isn't just some backwood American redneck type NIMBY stuff...there are reasons people here are suddenly going "wait a minute...what is happening?" You're still entitled to do that. But this is an area that has always thrived on multiculturalism and has had that as part of its growth...so it's not a bunch of hood wearing maniacs drawing their line in the sand. There are real issues being created that need to be looked at)
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#74 TGokou

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:49 PM

I'm a 1st gen asian and I'm starting to feel annoyed by other asians. It's exactly like other people have said already, you walk into a restaurant try to order something in english and they can't even understand you. Seriously? Other factors too that I won't say but I'm sure people can figure it out. I think the main problem is we used the immigration route too quickly (which I blame solely on our government) and now we have too many immigrants that are too comfortable living in their own culture that they feel no need to learn our culture. I'm hoping this will change in the next 20 years or so but somehow I doubt it. Also, it's people that want to take advantage of our system without integrating themselves that need to be kicked out. Complete drain on our system.
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#75 Opmac

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:28 PM

Isn't a business putting itself at a disadvantage by marginalizing non-Chinese reading people? It seems like there would be enough of a reason from a business standpoint to ensure there is English.
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#76 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:32 PM

Isn't a business putting itself at a disadvantage by marginalizing non-Chinese reading people? It seems like there would be enough of a reason from a business standpoint to ensure there is English.

That is a business decision and not one for government.
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#77 Nuck-Shot

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:27 AM

It only pisses me off when official language speaking citizens are excluded on the basis of not being of the culture whether it be an item on a menu or a sale on an item or service. These companies should be shut down for their disrespect of our society
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#78 Common sense

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:41 AM

Isn't a business putting itself at a disadvantage by marginalizing non-Chinese reading people? It seems like there would be enough of a reason from a business standpoint to ensure there is English.


That's a risk the business owner is taking on (and rightfully so - it's his/her own dollars to blow)
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#79 prana16

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:25 AM

No "insular ghetto" that I can see. Just a rich and vibrant mix of cultures. I suppose if if one is a racist, bigot and/or xenophobe then one might feel threatened.


Its not a mix of cultures when there is no mixing because people don't understand one another.
But yes i'm a racist, I just hate asian people so much i decided to move to japan learn to speak read and write the language just so i could tell them so.. but i wasn't done there.. my seething hatred drove me to thailand and burma where i learned to communicate in two more languages just so i could tell them where to go. My Sanskrit studies in university was just another attempt.. but i can't even bring myself to go to india.. disgusting. :picard: :rolleyes: you got it all figured out wet.

I am a "born and raised" Canadian and I do not feel I am not being respected. There are all sorts of people who feel threatened by something different - I am not one of them.


Your juvenile responses to people that dare disagree with you on this board beg to differ. You feel intellectually threatened by 14 year olds on here daily.. and for good reason.. the emperor has no clothes. But thanks for sharing YOUR opinion

It was not just Trudeau's opinion, ........


You never get tired of that wall of text cut and paste do you?

You have a severe misunderstanding of what multicultural means. Cut it out and pasting here doesn't show YOU understand it.. You realize that don't you?

If as you claim some Canadians do not understand this then they are woefully uninformed and ignorant of our history and our law.


That would be you actually. You will claim otherwise.. but your argument from authority from your cutnpastes that you clearly do not even understand is not compelling.


The proposal being advanced by the two women in Richmond violates the spirit and express provisions of our multicultural society.


No it does not. Adding the official national language to a sign does nothing to oppress or infringe either the dominant or minority culture.

lulz.. omgz multi language signs are against multiculturalism !!!!!!!!!!! herpa derp :picard: :rolleyes:

:sadno:
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#80 VoiceOfReason_

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 04:01 AM

I fully support the shops, stores and business owners that have signsin other languages.

Europeans came to Canada and brought english.
The French came to Canada and brought French.

Now, Indians and Chinese are coming to Canada and bringing there languages, I for one am happy that the lower mainland is slowly losing it`s `white` culture.

Edited by VoiceOfReason_, 17 March 2013 - 04:01 AM.

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#81 VoiceOfReason_

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 04:04 AM

I agree with this. It's exclusive.

I was in my bank and they had a display of coffee, cookies, etc. and only Chinese signs on the table. It ticked me off, as there were other things and I wasn't clear on what the deal was. So I asked for the branch manager and told her that, since I could not read the signs I presumed they said "take all of this home, Deb". I picked up an entire pack of cookies and walked out, just to make my point. Which likely translated to "Deb's an ass". Whatever, it irked me.

I believe one of two official languages should always be displayed with prominence.


Stealing cookies from a bank...That`ll teach them to embrace white culture. You really got them, Deb.
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#82 Dellins

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 04:29 AM

I fully support the shops, stores and business owners that have signsin other languages.

Europeans came to Canada and brought english.
The French came to Canada and brought French.

Now, Indians and Chinese are coming to Canada and bringing there languages, I for one am happy that the lower mainland is slowly losing it`s `white` culture.


Apples and orangutans.
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#83 debluvscanucks

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 07:52 AM

Stealing cookies from a bank...That`ll teach them to embrace white culture. You really got them, Deb.



It wasn't stealing, as I made the manager fully aware of what I was doing. It was to make a point that if I can't read the signs in the bank, how can I participate? And the cookies were there for people to take, but it was to prove a point, so let's not be too dramatic here. It was Coast Capital and it was rather exclusive for them to have a display that many could not understand. It's not "white culture", it's inclusive culture...I have no problem with Chinese signs (at all), but I need to be able to read them also. Somehow this was missing the "multi" part

And sure, I could have done what some others were doing and ranted and raved, but I chose to use a demonstrative example that added a little humour. It's how I roll.
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#84 debluvscanucks

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:06 AM

That is a business decision and not one for government.


I have a family member deathly allergic to many foods....so if we can't read the sign outside to identify what is being sold and we can't read the menu to decide what the ingredients are and people can't communicate with us, isn't that worthy of consideration? If we go in and try to order something without being clear, it could cost her her life. Many (most) of the restaurants near the city center/skytrain (she doesn't drive) are, in fact, Asian restaurants so if this tone is set (don't need to be able to read the signs), you're then ruling out most of the businesses in the area for her.

While you tell us to embrace and try the different things, we'd love to, and that's my point here. But this is very limiting. It then becomes a safety issue, not a private matter.

And the civil suit that is filed will then call on the Government to facilitate it, so don't you think being proactive is a better approach? To ensure people can clearly identify risks, etc. And if you put it back to the customer and say "well don't go there if you can't read the signs/menus", isn't that being exclusive? How does that support "multi" culturalism?
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#85 Lockout Casualty

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:25 AM

"Chinese Only"

That's what it says when there is no English.

As long as it doesn't say "No Whites", right?

How many of these businesses would lose clientele by serving non-Mandarin/Canton speakers? I've been the only non-Chinese person in restaurants that don't serve non-Chinese (unless accompanied by a Chinese person, as I was), and it's not pleasant. The feeling I got was that I was invading their space, and they were sure to let me know. I couldn't even pay after the meal, because they only take cash and don't have any English signs or speakers to let me know. I love Chinese food that's a little more authentic than "Sweet and Sour Pork", but I can't get it because I can't read the menu nor speak to any servers.

I know, I'm such a racist.

Amusing, there are stores that exclude patrons based on their lack of Mandarin/Canton proficiency, yet the racists are the folks who are being excluded. Some mental gymnastics there. So long as there is no regulation from the big bad government though.
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#86 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:53 AM

I fully support the shops, stores and business owners that have signsin other languages.

Europeans came to Canada and brought english.
The French came to Canada and brought French.

Now, Indians and Chinese are coming to Canada and bringing there languages, I for one am happy that the lower mainland is slowly losing it`s `white` culture.


I'm curious, what is white culture? Is it holding doors and saying please and thanks?
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#87 Mr.Habitat

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:12 AM

My biggest concern is how it is dividing people.. Pushing us away from each other. For me.. I have white friends, Chinese friends , Japanese friends, Iranian friends , afghan friends, black friends. They all want to be Canadian, speak English and they still love and embrace their backgrounds. Just because they decided to assimilate doesn't mean they have to let their culture go.

It actually quite saddens me when I'm in a group of people and can't even join the conversation because they all don't understand English.

I experience this at work as well with a group of filipinos they have alienated themselves from the rest of the workers. They huddle together and only talk with each other, they feel everyone else is out to get them . Even though they can speak English fine.. They decide to hide from everyone else.
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#88 Gustavo Fring

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:15 AM

When I go to a store and find out it only caters to Chinese ppl, I start greeting them with "Herrrooo". Works everytime.
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#89 Electro Rock

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:40 PM

The French Quebecers eat off the plate of the rest of Canada and force everyone else to dance to their tune in so many ways, so for them to push their language laws and other forms of discrimination is crossing the line. Its not comparable to the situation with ethnic colonists in the Lower Mainland.
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#90 Wetcoaster

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:24 PM

It only pisses me off when official language speaking citizens are excluded on the basis of not being of the culture whether it be an item on a menu or a sale on an item or service. These companies should be shut down for their disrespect of our society

It seems people have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the status of English as an official language means and how it relates to the constitutionally entrenched policy of multiculturalism. We should not force English on people in areas of private dealings - that is clear from the Canadian Multiculturalism Act:

AND WHEREAS the Constitution of Canada and the Official Languages Act provide that English and French are the official languages of Canada and neither abrogates nor derogates from any rights or privileges acquired or enjoyed with respect to any other language;


And:

3. (1) It is hereby declared to be the policy of the Government of Canada to:

...

(i) preserve and enhance the use of languages other than English and French, while strengthening the status and use of the official languages of Canada


And in the Charter which is the supreme law of the land:

27. This Charter shall be interpreted in a manner consistent with the preservation and enhancement of the multicultural heritage of Canadians.


The core principle of multiculturalism is that no culture or ethnic group superior to another. As Pierre Trudeau noted in the House of Commons when Canada adopted an official multicultural policy in 1971... "there is no official culture, nor does any ethnic group take precedence over any other." And this petition sends the message that English culture is superior.

University of B.C. psychology professor Andrew Scott Baron said he believes a signage policy could be “dangerous” to the community.


“I think it would have more negative ramifications than positive,” Baron said.


“It establishes a status hierarchy. It says that English is the proper language.”


Baron said the policy could do the most harm to young kids, who don’t understand the politics and might receive the message that “to be Canadian means not to speak Chinese.”


The multiculturalism expert said that living in an increasingly global world means learning to appreciate and speak other languages, rather than setting one above the other.

http://www.theprovince.com/life/Chinese+language+signs+proportion+formal+policy+solution/8110355/story.html#ixzz2NpXDbr7d

I have been categorical opposed to the Quebec separatist French language laws and this petition and mindset comes from the same sort of mindset.
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