PhillipBlunt Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 With the right teammates he is. But I just think for cup teams he has to be on the 3rd line. There's no formula or recipe for a Stanley Cup winning team. Chemistry and tenacity seem to be the only common theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I'd say he is an average two way second line player, but if he had a little more puck luck he'd be a solid one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 A lot has already been said, so I'll just go with... maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Higgins was always one, up until he got traded to New York. He played like a top top 6 winger, (not a number 1 winger) in 2012. 5 times 20 goal scorer almost scored 30 goals, yes he's a top 6 winger, but not a top line winger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamJamIam Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I would dare say Kesler, Santorelli and Higgins are one of the top-5 2nd lines in the league. Probably not as skilled as say Pittsburgh's, Chicago's or San Jose's, but they are 3 of the best forecheckers in the league. We saw Santorelli, Higgins and Kesler absolutely man-handle the Bruins' top line to score the game winner and its those sorts of matchups that win playoff series. I would say they're the best 2nd line in the league. Like you said, it's a matter of matchups and play style. Those other teams you listed have talent on their second line but they are often not terribly hard to play against. By comparison the tenacity of our 2nd line is a massive drain on opposing 1st lines. That line wins us the matchup game all on its own, in the regular season and in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksSayEh Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 If ya wanna get through the west, ya need a combo of overacheivers, and guys playing in roles beneath them. We have Kes on the 2nd, playing like a 1st liner. That's a start, we have Higgy and Santo playing above their expectations, also good. We could really use 1 more of the Kesler type, someone who can break well into the 50 point range, maybe even push 60. That with a good rebound from Burrows, and continuing upswing of Booth, Kass and Hansen...Then we'd have ourselves a stew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazzam Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 0 points in his last 14 playoff games His career numbers in the playoffs aren't great either. I wouldn't bank on him performing like a top 6 player in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrChill Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Prefer him in top 9 and get us a real top 6 player. But until then he will do just fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benchsplinters Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I'd prefer we brought in a 50-60pt guy and move Higgins down to the 3rd line, but he has found some great chemistry with santorelli and Kesler so yes I'd consider him a top 6 forward...but only when playing with the right players. Take them away and Higgins will faulter and revert back to being a 3rd liner What player doesn't faulter when you take two of his regular line mates away from him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferlands_Head Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I would say they're the best 2nd line in the league. Like you said, it's a matter of matchups and play style. Those other teams you listed have talent on their second line but they are often not terribly hard to play against. By comparison the tenacity of our 2nd line is a massive drain on opposing 1st lines. That line wins us the matchup game all on its own, in the regular season and in the playoffs. LOL i can't tell if you're serious, those teams' second lines would destroy ours not to mention the Kings, Blues and other elite teams. I can guarantee you our "2nd line" won't even last through January, i hope they can prove me wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benchsplinters Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 There's no formula or recipe for a Stanley Cup winning team. Chemistry and tenacity seem to be the only common theme. You are so right. The team has to be clicking at the right time of year as well. Get two or three lines playing well and it goes viral with the other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benchsplinters Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 LOL i can't tell if you're serious, those teams' second lines would destroy ours not to mention the Kings, Blues and other elite teams. I can guarantee you our "2nd line" won't even last through January, i hope they can prove me wrong though. It is really easy to be negative isn't it? How about some positive karma for a change. It will brighten your day believe me. By the way, they will prove you wrong too. This team is not just winning games, it is also learning how to win and that is the most important attribute a team can have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrrFour Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 0 points in his last 14 playoff games His career numbers in the playoffs aren't great either. I wouldn't bank on him performing like a top 6 player in the playoffs. I totally agree with you. I'm all about the playoffs and he's proven that he's a third line playoff performer. Even at that, I'd rather have someone bigger than Higg grinding on our third line. Someone like raffi torres would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 CDC consistently overrates what's expected of a top-six forward. The OP is bang on for what most people expect (50-60 points per season minimum). However, the reality in recent years is that roughly 0.40 points per game (about 33 points) or better is what constitutes a top-six scoring rate in today's NHL. 50-60 points per season is a first line scoring rate. Of course, the best teams in the NHL have more than three "first liners" and have 50-60 points/season players on their second lines. As things stand currently, the Canucks have a chance to be one of those teams. Here's a good recent article (from PITB) on the difference between expectations and realities as to what constitutes a "second line forward" (and top-six scoring) in the NHL: http://vansunsportsb...ner-in-the-nhl/ EDIT: As far as those numbers go, the Canucks are in pretty good shape with their current roster. Vancouver currently has four forwards who are producing points at a "first liner" rate: Hank and Danny (0.89 points/game each), Kes (0.74), and Santo (0.69). Another two forwards are producing at "second line" rates: Higgins (0.60 points/game--just below a first line rate) and Richardson (0.40). Three more Canucks forwards are currently just below the threshold for "top-six" scoring: Hansen (0.36), Weise (0.36), and Booth (0.35). You also have guys like Burrows (0.18), whose injuries and scoring slump have him well below his normal rate of production, and Kassian (0.24), who has shown flashes of "top-six" ability (and who hopefully will become a more consistent scorer). Both players (especially Burr) could quite easily produce top-six scoring during the 2nd half of this season. Finally, there's Schroeder (if/when he returns to the lineup), who has top-six offensive talent and who has shown the ability in the past to produce at a "first line" scoring rate when he's given complimentary wingers and an offensive role (like the Raymond-Schroeder-Hansen line that actually out-produced the Sedin line, in points/minute played, in their games together last season). The voice of reason has spoken again. Thank you for posting facts instead of just throwing around garbage. At times it's like kids in a toy shop....I want that, I want that... And then it's thrown into the bin shortly afterwards only to start over again. Would it be good to have a top goal scorer with the Sedins? Yes definitely, would/should we break the chemistry apart that seems to be devoloping in the hope of more goals? Not so sure. January will show, what this teams chances will be like, for playoffs. Think we will stack up a lot better, than we did in beginning of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferlands_Head Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 It is really easy to be negative isn't it? How about some positive karma for a change. It will brighten your day believe me. By the way, they will prove you wrong too. This team is not just winning games, it is also learning how to win and that is the most important attribute a team can have. I am positive, i like how the team has played recently but I'm also realistic, that line will not match up well against the elite western teams guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Yup. When he's playing with Kes and Santo. His shot's been pretty good this year, but he needs to be more elusive with it. Everyone knows he's going to shoot, and in the playoffs some of those won't get by good goalies unless he's looking them off or is shooting before they are set. Nice thing is I really think that we could slot in Booth or Burrows with Kesler Santo, and have a good line still. Those two guys are playing great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamJamIam Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 LOL i can't tell if you're serious, those teams' second lines would destroy ours not to mention the Kings, Blues and other elite teams. I can guarantee you our "2nd line" won't even last through January, i hope they can prove me wrong though. I can't help but wonder if your complete inability to bring any sort of evidence to back up your argument is evidence of your laziness when posting or just laziness in thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJVD Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I would say yes. Top 6 doesn't mean consistently score 50+ points. Just looked at 2010-2011 and 11-12 and there were 90, and 95 forwards to score 50 or more points. That's 3 per team, not 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerbera Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Higgins is a good supplementary 2nd line player. What I mean is he needs a good 1st liner or a dominant 2nd liner to play with. As long as Kesler can draw the attention of the defenders, Higgins will thrive. (so as Santo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SofaKing Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Absolutely YES!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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