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Don't need a checking C: No to Goc, Matthias, etc


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#1 WiseCanucksFan

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:03 AM

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I see frequent posts suggesting the Canucks should pick up a checking centre like Malhotra, Pahlsson in the past. Well this team no longer has the same kind of makeup as those Canucks teams of the past, personally I don't think it makes any sense to pick up a checking centre.

AV used Malhotra in a shutdown role - with wingers like Torres, Higgins, Hansen. In the current makeup of the team, the Kesler line IS the shutdown line. They are already playing tough minutes with defensive zone starts and playing against the top forwards, they are basically the prototypical 3rd line except they can score as well. But because they are an excellent 2-way line they can go minute-for-minute against the opposition's best and end up with 1st line icetime.

Meanwhile, guys like Kassian and Booth are not exactly suited to a shutdown type role. I feel Richardson is a misfit on that line, and the same could occur with Goc, Matthias, etc. This isn't really a checking line - rather the personnel on this line are more prototypical 2nd line forwards. The type of center needed here is a playmaking center to play with these guys, not a checking centre.

If the Canucks were to trade for a C, it should be a playmaker not a 3rd liner. But with Horvat in the pipeline, it may make more sense to wait it out.

Jordan Schroeder when he gets healthy should be given a shot between Kassian and Booth - this is the type of C that is needed.
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#2 people please

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:13 AM

I see frequent posts suggesting the Canucks should pick up a checking centre like Malhotra, Pahlsson in the past. Well this team no longer has the same kind of makeup as those Canucks teams of the past, personally I don't think it makes any sense to pick up a checking centre.

AV used Malhotra in a shutdown role - with wingers like Torres, Higgins, Hansen. In the current makeup of the team, the Kesler line IS the shutdown line. They are already playing tough minutes with defensive zone starts and playing against the top forwards, they are basically the prototypical 3rd line except they can score as well. But because they are an excellent 2-way line they can go minute-for-minute against the opposition's best and end up with 1st line icetime.

Meanwhile, guys like Kassian and Booth are not exactly suited to a shutdown type role. I feel Richardson is a misfit on that line, and the same could occur with Goc, Matthias, etc. This isn't really a checking line - rather the personnel on this line are more prototypical 2nd line forwards. The type of center needed here is a playmaking center to play with these guys, not a checking centre.

If the Canucks were to trade for a C, it should be a playmaker not a 3rd liner. But with Horvat in the pipeline, it may make more sense to wait it out.

Jordan Schroeder when he gets healthy should be given a shot between Kassian and Booth - this is the type of C that is needed.


Don't compare malhotra to pahllson
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#3 HC20.0

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:20 AM

Don't compare malhotra to pahllson

They were both defensive, checking centers who could win faceoffs though. Just one sucked here and the other didn't. But it's a valid comparison.
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#4 Sandro17

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:32 AM

So in other words, our second line can act as our 3rd line as it shuts down opponents very well and our third line just needs added scoring due to the second line taking their role. You actually make a good point. +1
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#5 riffraff

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:33 AM

Sterotypical or prototypical?
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#6 canuckster19

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:38 AM

Yeah, it will be interesting, if/when Horvat's season is done, to see if he can play between Booth and Kassian, that line has been carrying this team more than the Sedin line lately.
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#7 Cucumber

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:35 AM

so u want when healthy

sedins burrows
higgins kesler santorelli
booth schroeder kassian
weise richardson hansen

but torts will change stuff around as we know, we really should try amex line again

sedins burrows
higgins kesler booth
santorelli schroeder kassian
weise richardson hansen

our depth in the next 1-2 years is so crazy with the likes of horvat, shrinkarek, gaunce, jensen, archibald, corrado ect... coming in
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#8 canucklehead44

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:36 AM

Sterotypical or prototypical?


Stereotypical.

That said, I think line chemistry is more complex than typecasting players and moving them around like game pieces. I really like Richardson with Kassian and Booth. Despite one really bad shift from Kassian that was our most dangerous, generating 2 goals and multiple scoring chances.

Edited by canucklehead44, 23 December 2013 - 01:38 AM.

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#9 Sugar baby watermelon

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 05:35 AM

Schroeder will most likely play between Kass & Booth when he returns, Richardson is doing really well there but he plays well on the 4th as well, between Weise and Dalpe maybe. Schroeder has pretty good vision on ice and can make some nice heads up passes out there.
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#10 Merci

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 05:39 AM

Gaunce is our 3rd line center.

Horvat is 2nd with Kesler on his RW
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Keslerific, on 25 May 2014 - 4:47 PM, said:

Gaunce is wayy cooler though, Gaunce is the kind of guy you want to bring with you to Costco

 

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#11 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 05:43 AM

Look at San Jose's 3rd line center - Joe Pavelski. He's decent defensively, but offensively he's outscoring almost every team's 1st line center.
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#12 missioncanucksfan

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 08:51 AM

Don't compare malhotra to pahllson

well Pahlsson has a ring whilst being a huge factor during Duck's run...
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#13 CB007

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 08:52 AM

Gaunce is our 3rd line center.

Horvat is 2nd with Kesler on his RW


Which team are you following?
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#14 Maniwaki Canuck

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 08:53 AM

Nice post, OP. Old habits die hard. We have been so used to having terrible depth at centre that we don't realize that the problem is fixed. Even with Schroeder out of the lineup all year, we've been doing fine because Richardson is adequate at 3C, even though he makes most sense at 4C. Dalpe and Welch are almost up to a 4C role, but we're probably not going anywhere in the playoffs if we have to use them there. And with Horvat, Gaunce and Cassels in the pipeline, our centre depth is going to be crazy in years to come. We are going to be subtracting, not adding, in that position.
So it's back to the well-worn need for a sniper and a puck-moving defenseman if the opportunities are there. Otherwise, we keep doing it by committee, which isn't the worst thing.
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#15 CB007

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 08:54 AM

Look at San Jose's 3rd line center - Joe Pavelski. He's decent defensively, but offensively he's outscoring almost every team's 1st line center.


Exactly... this whole stereotypical shutdown 3C thing is overrated. I would rather have 3 defensively responsible scoring lines and leave the 4th to shutdown if it's affordable. I think most people would if they actually think about it.
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#16 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:39 AM

More options on the draw isn't a bad thing.

I think at this point you have to consider how a guy fits in.

Florida is a loser franchise used to losing and all their top-end vet talent has already been robbed.

I think we'd target NYR as a trading partner because Torts has obvious familiarity with their guys and they're a team in flux.

Question is who?
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#17 Frazzy Desjardins

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:13 AM

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Higgins Kesler Santorelli
Booth Schroeder Kassian
Hansen Richardson Sestito/Weise

Hamhuis Tanev
Edler Garrison
Stanton Bieksa
Weber/Corrado

Lu
Lack

Playoff lineup, barring any injuries or trades...

I see Edler and Hansen as potential trade bait, packaged with a draft pick or a prospect not named Bo, Hunter, Brendan, or Jordan (or any G prospect) could be very enticing to a lot of teams.

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#18 Canada Hockey Place

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:14 AM

VAN already has a 3rd line C. His name is Mike and he plays on the 2nd line.

The option is there. Right now, the coach trusts him more than others so he gives him more minutes. If 2 of Burrows, Hansen, Booth or Kassian can step up, there are tons of options to balance the lines.
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#19 CookieCrumbs

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:03 PM

Assuming there are no trades and everybody is healthy, this is the line up I would press for.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows (needs to really step up once he's back to form)
Higgins - Kesler - Santorelli
Booth - Schroeder - Kassian
Weise - Richardson - Hansen
Sestito

Hamhuis - Tanev
Edler - Garrison
Stanton - Bieksa
Weber

Luongo
Lack
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#20 Pistachios

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:03 PM

I see frequent posts suggesting the Canucks should pick up a checking centre like Malhotra, Pahlsson in the past. Well this team no longer has the same kind of makeup as those Canucks teams of the past, personally I don't think it makes any sense to pick up a checking centre.

AV used Malhotra in a shutdown role - with wingers like Torres, Higgins, Hansen. In the current makeup of the team, the Kesler line IS the shutdown line. They are already playing tough minutes with defensive zone starts and playing against the top forwards, they are basically the prototypical 3rd line except they can score as well. But because they are an excellent 2-way line they can go minute-for-minute against the opposition's best and end up with 1st line icetime.

Meanwhile, guys like Kassian and Booth are not exactly suited to a shutdown type role. I feel Richardson is a misfit on that line, and the same could occur with Goc, Matthias, etc. This isn't really a checking line - rather the personnel on this line are more prototypical 2nd line forwards. The type of center needed here is a playmaking center to play with these guys, not a checking centre.

If the Canucks were to trade for a C, it should be a playmaker not a 3rd liner. But with Horvat in the pipeline, it may make more sense to wait it out.

Jordan Schroeder when he gets healthy should be given a shot between Kassian and Booth - this is the type of C that is needed.


agreed. unfortunately with the injuries J.S has suffered this season he is a LONG ways away from being in game shape- it is just an unfortunate circumstance. I'm not sure if J.S is subject to waivers but what would be best for him when he is game ready again is to play in Utica and return hopefully just before the season ends to slot in the 3rd/4th line but that might just be wishful thinking.

Richardson has done a pretty good job so far I think. Defensively he is exactly what the 3rd line needs and is decent enough as a 2 way C. And with Horvat coming up I agree the Canucks don't need to trade the farm, but even Horvat might be a year or two away from the NHL, so I'm curious who MG & Co might be looking at for depth at the C position.
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#21 zverta

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:24 PM

I think the issue might be more for this year than say the next 2 or 3. Horvat won't be helping us anytime soon come April.

Gillis either needs to get a winger for the Kesler/Higgins line and have Santorelli play center on the 3rd. Or leave the top 6 alone and acquire a proper 3rd line/4th line center so that we can kick Dalpe off this team.

Richardson has been playing fantastic hockey this year. But I think It would be wise to acquire a proper 4th line center like a Goc because our team is a little thin in depth compared to other cup contenders.

Everyone's playing a step above their level of skill this year and I'd much rather see them exactly where they should be.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Santorelli
Booth - Richardson - Kassian
Weise - Goc - Hansen
Sestito

Edited by zverta, 23 December 2013 - 01:25 PM.

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#22 Absent Canuck

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:34 PM

If we are going to honestly compete for the cup this year we need to take a look at Jagr and Steve Ott .

goaltending is good, defense is deep and well rounded.

Sedins will get shut down 5 on 5. We dont know if Santorelli and Higgins can handle the load if we cant count on the Sedins.

I would feel much better having Jagr to step into that role, and Ott to form a hard match kill switch line with Kass and Booth.
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#23 tkoisthx

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 03:58 PM

I would feel much better having Jagr to step into that role, and Ott to form a hard match kill switch line with Kass and Booth.

Jagr and all 0 goals in 22 playoff games in Boston's run last season? Jagr has 1 goal in his past 33 playoff games. That's the guy you want to step up and handle the offensive side of our game?
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#24 skyfall

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:24 PM

I want more offensive forwards and have wanted them since Hodgson was traded.
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#25 Bert Diesel

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:27 PM

Great post OP. I totally agree, we the pieces for a 4th line that can check. We should have offensive balance on the other three lines. If a 3rd line center hads little offensive upside, than they are a bit of a waste of a roster spot unless they are Selke material(like Malhotra was in 2011). Those guys don't grow on trees. At one point Pahlson was that type of player, but was too old when we got him. Excellent point on Horvat, he will likely fill that role in the future. We shouldn't trade away orgainzational depth for a type of player wo is redundant on this roster.
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#26 Bert Diesel

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:30 PM

On an earlier point, Schroeder is subject to waivers but can go on a conditioning stint.
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#27 70seven

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:45 PM

I think that winning faceoffs is an important part of that line. Having Kassian and Booth start with posession would be a wise decision. But yes, I agree that a player with more offensive vision would be a better fit on that unit. Id also like to see more physicallity.
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#28 5Fivehole0

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:57 PM

Gaunce is our 3rd line center.

Horvat is 2nd with Kesler on his RW


What makes you believe that Horvat is better than Kes in the red paint?
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No. The Canucks aren't even in the same realm as these other teams. They aren't even close to being good enough to make the playoffs. They'll be off by around 10 points.


#29 Absent Canuck

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 05:36 PM

Jagr and all 0 goals in 22 playoff games in Boston's run last season? Jagr has 1 goal in his past 33 playoff games. That's the guy you want to step up and handle the offensive side of our game?


Your post makes little sense. He put up zero points last year and one point in the last 33?

You also forgot to tell us who you propose instead of Jagr. Instead of simply ripping apart other proposals, have the courage to put your solution up instead.
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#30 Hairy Kneel

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 08:33 PM

Schroeder is no Malholtra, and he is not 3rd line material..faceoff wise and not sure if he can score at all, and won't bodycheck, he can do perimeter stuff but that's more 1st second line stuff.
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