[Report] Dale Tallon activley shopping 1st overall pick

[Iron_Gland]

LOL alright Mr. "Potential" - I see you are one of those guys.

Don't put ceilings on prospects, they all have potential to be anything they want to be, etc etc. Sorry but in the real world, everyone has a ceiling. That said, it's there to be broken like Kesler did, but those are not commonplace.

Horvat is a franchise 2C for any team he plays for. I didn't say a team can have only one franchise player at a time. I am a fan of a team with the SEDINS plural... I understand that you need a core of franchise players to contend.

However, I also understand that it will cost you astronomically more to get a Sedin than, say, a Ryan Kesler, and most teams would be more willing to move a Kesler before they move a Sedin anyways. So really, the best way to get a franchise 1C is to draft them. Reinhart is a franchise 1C, whereas Horvat is a franchise 2C. So we should take Reinhart for Horvat + whoever is at #6 while we still can before they reach their potentials.

ALL this is assuming that we have NO other choice but Horvat + 6th because that is the ONLY offer FLA will take. I don't want another random ragging me about how I am so ready to give away our future when we can trade other pieces instead...

But giving up the 9th overall pick (which we traded a number 1 goalie for) in a deep draft class along with a 6th overall pick for the first pick in a supposed weak draft class doesn't seem smart. Reinhart seems like a solid player, but doesn't scream guaranteed all star the way Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Toews, Tavares, etc did in their classes.

Plus getting Reinhart alone, as opposed to keeping Horvat and taking one of the other possible centres at six (worst case scenario Nylander) doesn't seem like a good way to build for the future.

[He-Lord]

LOL alright Mr. "Potential" - I see you are one of those guys.

Don't put ceilings on prospects, they all have potential to be anything they want to be, etc etc. Sorry but in the real world, everyone has a ceiling. That said, it's there to be broken like Kesler did, but those are not commonplace.

Horvat is a franchise 2C for any team he plays for. I didn't say a team can have only one franchise player at a time. I am a fan of a team with the SEDINS plural... I understand that you need a core of franchise players to contend.

However, I also understand that it will cost you astronomically more to get a Sedin than, say, a Ryan Kesler, and most teams would be more willing to move a Kesler before they move a Sedin anyways. So really, the best way to get a franchise 1C is to draft them. Reinhart is a franchise 1C, whereas Horvat is a franchise 2C. So we should take Reinhart for Horvat + whoever is at #6 while we still can before they reach their potentials.

ALL this is assuming that we have NO other choice but Horvat + 6th because that is the ONLY offer FLA will take. I don't want another random ragging me about how I am so ready to give away our future when we can trade other pieces instead...

Yes, potential. That's all these kids have at the moment, including Reinhart. So I see you are one of those who are unable to comprehend that. Let me guess, if we got Reinhart, and next year we could trade our first and Reinhart for Mcdavid, you'd do that too, wouldn't you?

Like I said, Reinhart is no more a guarantee than Horvat, whether you like it or not. If we want this team to be good, you find a way so you have Horvat complimenting Reinhart, instead of one or the other. If Florida demands Horvat along with the 6th, then they can piss off. There are talented prospects still to be had at 6th.

What good will Reinhart be to us if the rest of the team sucks and can't support him?

[He-Lord]

What's the point of drafting a Tavares when you can't surround him with good talent?

Exactly. This is all that needs to be said. It baffles me that people actually believe one player, no matter how good, will carry us to a cup.

[Pears]

No, I suggest we draft to get depth so we can match up against balanced teams like Chicago, LA, etc. We will not win a cup next year. In fact we'll be lucky to get into the playoffs next year. But we can build for the future so that we are a serious threat to win the cup.

When you exchange prospects for prospects, you are spinning your wheels. Look at the Islanders. They draft Luongo, then they draft DiPietro. Heatley, Gaborik,Hartnell or Hossa would have been a better pick.

What's the point of drafting a Tavares when you can't surround him with good talent?

Very good point. Tavares' situation on the Isles reminds of LeBron's when he was still in Cleveland. Franchise player with a supporting cast that just isn't good enough. What the Islanders do have going for them is that they have the cap space and pieces to get JT a better supporting cast.

[Sweathog]

I have a feeling it would be Tanev, the 6th, and a B prospect for the 1st pick. Don't see Tallon really having a need for Horvat with the prospects they already have.

[Sweathog]

Sorry, double post.

[Double Vs]

If Tallon wants vets, then Canucks have some to trade. I am tired of letting BC prospects go on to great careers. Benning will do a deal with Florida for the 1st pick. I just know it, as that will be his mark on the team. Canucks have some great centre prospects, and that's the way to go. I think SR will be a Canuck next week.

Nonis was right at the time in 2006 to build from the net out, and that's why he got Bobby Lu. But I think the new NHL is from the center out. What a shift.

I trust Linden and Benning. I can't wait for the next week, and then the draft. Canucks are in good hands in my opinion.

[Plum]

If Tallon wants vets, then Canucks have some to trade. I am tired of letting BC prospects go on to great careers. Benning will do a deal with Florida for the 1st pick. I just know it, as that will be his mark on the team. Canucks have some great centre prospects, and that's the way to go. I think SR will be a Canuck next week.

Nonis was right at the time in 2006 to build from the net out, and that's why he got Bobby Lu. But I think the new NHL is from the center out. What a shift.

I trust Linden and Benning. I can't wait for the next week, and then the draft. Canucks are in good hands in my opinion.

All great teams still have a good goaltender, Quick, Lundqvist, Crawford, Rask.

But yeah, Reinhart I think will be a Canuck he just shows up on the scoreboard even if he doesn't control the game and be noticeable.

[Agoork]

Honestly, I think the reported Toronto offer was blown out of proportion. I doubt they actually offered all of that to move up - it was probably more of a either / or type situation... but who knows.

If Florida wants too much, switch our focus to Buffalo.

If Florida keeps the 1st, they'll likely take Ekblad. If Edmonton or Toronto trade up, they'll take Ekblad.

To BUF. 6th + 10th This alone might do it. If not, they probably won't want much more.

To VAN: 2nd overall and take Reinhart

The 10th is from trading Kesler to Anaheim of course, but if that doesn't happen, there are other teams willing to give up a high pick to improve now (Columbus, NYI, Carolina)...

[Off_The_Schneid!]

Why isn't anyone mentioning a trade with Edmonton ? They've gone on record mentioning they would move down and it would only take one of our defenseman in the package.

Drafting 3rd guarantees we get either reinhart, or Bennett or we could choose draisaitl if he is the better options over Bennett

[73 Percent]

Why isn't anyone mentioning a trade with Edmonton ? They've gone on record mentioning they would move down and it would only take one of our defenseman in the package.

Drafting 3rd guarantees we get either reinhart, or Bennett or we could choose draisaitl if he is the better options over Bennett

because it would likely require the same package rumoured for first overall and I could see Edmonton still being sour about gillis not trading them Schneider.

[Boudrias]

And therein lies the difference between you and I, and I am assuming the OP also.

Horvat doesn't quite have the offensive skills to be a top-end talent IMO, and Shinkaruk has a small but tangible potential to be a top-end talent. However, Reinhart is a sure-fire top-end talent. Giving up Horvat hurts, since he would be a very solid 2C behind Reinhart, but the fact that Horvat doesn't have the 1C potential makes it reasonable to give him up for a guy like Reinhart who does.

Am I missing something here? Aren't you suggesting #6 and Horvat for Reinhart? Horvat was #9 in a much

stronger draft year. If Reinhart is the 'sure thing' that many suggest then why was he put at RW with

Horvat as the C durng the WJ's? I cannot remember who the LW was on that line but I sure liked the way

Horvat and Reinhart were feeding off one another. It is the obvious conclusion to make the deal you

suggest if you are that confident in Reinhart's trajectory. The alternative is to draft at #6 and

deepen the talent base. Van has a brutal history in the depth department and trading two top 10 picks is

more of a gamble for this org than many others franchises.

I am hoping that Benning is as advertised and will make the right judgement. Hopefully a Kesler trade \

happens prior to draft so that he has greater flexibility to deal.

[MJDDawg]

Am I missing something here? Aren't you suggesting #6 and Horvat for Reinhart? Horvat was #9 in a much

stronger draft year. If Reinhart is the 'sure thing' that many suggest then why was he put at RW with

Horvat as the C durng the WJ's? I cannot remember who the LW was on that line but I sure liked the way

Horvat and Reinhart were feeding off one another. It is the obvious conclusion to make the deal you

suggest if you are that confident in Reinhart's trajectory. The alternative is to draft at #6 and

deepen the talent base. Van has a brutal history in the depth department and trading two top 10 picks is

more of a gamble for this org than many others franchises.

I am hoping that Benning is as advertised and will make the right judgement. Hopefully a Kesler trade \

happens prior to draft so that he has greater flexibility to deal.

Deepening the talent base with as many top picks as possible has to me always seemed the logical way to go due to our lack of depth.

I then came across this analysis that makes the case that trading up for Reinhart would definitely be the way to go. It's an interesting read that compares Reinhart and the other projected 2014 top 10 picks to current NHL stars at the same age. It also tries to make the case for the value of our existing top prospects Horvat and Shink, and why including them in any deal to move up to try to land Reinhart still makes sense.

http://canucksarmy.com/2014/6/10/who-should-vancouver-draft-spoilers-it-s-sam-reinhart

[Karlsson`s Flo]

Am I missing something here? Aren't you suggesting #6 and Horvat for Reinhart? Horvat was #9 in a muchstronger draft year. If Reinhart is the 'sure thing' that many suggest then why was he put at RW withHorvat as the C durng the WJ's? I cannot remember who the LW was on that line but I sure liked the wayHorvat and Reinhart were feeding off one another. It is the obvious conclusion to make the deal yousuggest if you are that confident in Reinhart's trajectory. The alternative is to draft at #6 anddeepen the talent base. Van has a brutal history in the depth department and trading two top 10 picks ismore of a gamble for this org than many others franchises.I am hoping that Benning is as advertised and will make the right judgement. Hopefully a Kesler trade \happens prior to draft so that he has greater flexibility to deal.

I believe it was Connor McDavid.

[Warhippy]

Seriously.

Stop with the Horvat and #6 pick for Reinhart

it is not worth it

It is stupid to suggest it.

You do not build team depth by trading away your best assets all the time. How do we know this? canucks have done that once or twice a decade for the last 40+ years and we have how many cups to show for it again?

Gaunce projects into a potential top 6 Center or 3rd line Center. We haven't had a solid 3rd line C since Malhotra left. Need to keep him.

Horvat projects into a very solid top 6 center possibly 1st line 2 way center. We are talking of trading kesler.

CANNOT trade that kind of player for another guy who is projected to be a top 6 center.

You do not win the depth game by constantly trading your depth.

Keeping in mind Kesler was ONLY supposed to be a 3rd line center

If moving forward our center depth looks like Reinhart, Horvat, Gaunce/Cassels and Lain for prospects. That is a damn site better than Reinhart Cassels Lain, as per people wanting to trade Gaunce and Horvat.

You cannot drive a car on only two tires. You cannot win a cup with only 1 or two good lines (Pitts)

we have the available assets to get that pick without trading Horvat so please stop. And for those of you that are oh so certain, please link EXACTLY where that was said to be the asking price, because the only mention of it was 1040 where whats his name asked if that would be the starting price. Nothing more

[Legend Killer]

Best case scenario is the we would have Horvat with Reinhart on his wing. Otherwise, Reinhart as 1C, Horvat as 2C. You contend with depth like that

[MJDDawg]

Seriously.

Stop with the Horvat and #6 pick for Reinhart

it is not worth it

It is stupid to suggest it.

You do not build team depth by trading away your best assets all the time. How do we know this? canucks have done that once or twice a decade for the last 40+ years and we have how many cups to show for it again?

Gaunce projects into a potential top 6 Center or 3rd line Center. We haven't had a solid 3rd line C since Malhotra left. Need to keep him.

Horvat projects into a very solid top 6 center possibly 1st line 2 way center. We are talking of trading kesler.

CANNOT trade that kind of player for another guy who is projected to be a top 6 center.

You do not win the depth game by constantly trading your depth.

Keeping in mind Kesler was ONLY supposed to be a 3rd line center

If moving forward our center depth looks like Reinhart, Horvat, Gaunce/Cassels and Lain for prospects. That is a damn site better than Reinhart Cassels Lain, as per people wanting to trade Gaunce and Horvat.

You cannot drive a car on only two tires. You cannot win a cup with only 1 or two good lines (Pitts)

we have the available assets to get that pick without trading Horvat so please stop. And for those of you that are oh so certain, please link EXACTLY where that was said to be the asking price, because the only mention of it was 1040 where whats his name asked if that would be the starting price. Nothing more

Horvat's top end as a top 6 is debatable. I'm no expert, but many of those who get paid to think about this stuff figure his top end is as a second liner, but that he'll most likely settle in as a very good third liner.

Take a peek at the link in my post above which makes the case that the Canucks should in fact consider trading Horvat if that is what is required to land Reinhart.

Not saying I necessarily agree with it, but it does provide an interesting statistical argument as to why it would make sense.

[Warhippy]

Horvat's top end as a top 6 is debatable. I'm no expert, but many of those who get paid to think about this stuff figure his top end is as a second liner, but that he'll most likely settle in as a very good third liner.

Take a peek at the link in my post above which makes the case that the Canucks should in fact consider trading Horvat if that is what is required to land Reinhart.

Not saying I necessarily agree with it, but it does provide an interesting statistical argument as to why it would make sense.

They also had Giroux in the bottom 20, had Daigle as a 1st overall Weber in the 2nd round and Kesler as a 3rd line C as his ceiling. They make mistakes.

Horvat will be a top 6 player. And we need those for when Burrows and the twins are ready to move on.

I still think we have more than enough available assets to get this trade done without moving any of our prospects like Shinkaruk/Horvat/Gaunce/Fox etc.

And if that is the asking price, in all honesty. Nylander/Draisatl/Dal Colle/Ritchie/Ehlers + Horvat all look a damn shade better in 4 years than Reinhart and a gaping hole in the 2C position with Kesler not around.

My position and opinion on things only as I have watched this exact kind of thing happen for 4 decades and I for one am good. This cycle needs to be broken. We have a development program and team, keep our guys develop them play them. Not trade them trade them trade them wonder where our depth is

[CynideSnipe]

If Benning wants to kick-start his era here at Vancouver, this is what he has to do. Two both easily possible and very realistic/rumored trades.

To Vancouver: 1st OVR Pick.

To Florida: 6th OVR Pick + Tanev.

To Vancouver: 10th OVR Pick + 24th OVR Pick + Shea Theodore.

To Anaheim: Kesler + 36h OVR Pick (if absolutely needed).

With these two Vancouver trades, obviously we get the 1st OVR Pick that so many of you seem to want, some 1st round picks, along with B level Offensive-Dman prospect who was drafted 26th OVR last year in a deep draft. Obvious Benning is going to pick Reinhart with the 1st OVR pick if he gets it. He's basically spelt it out to us. Therefore, our draft would look something like....

1st OVR : Sam Reinhart

10th OVR: Ritchie/Virtanen (Nylander will be long gone by then).

[CynideSnipe]

If Benning wants to kick-start his era here at Vancouver, this is what he has to do. Two both easily possible and very realistic/rumored trades.

To Vancouver: 1st OVR Pick.

To Florida: 6th OVR Pick + Tanev.

To Vancouver: 10th OVR Pick + 24th OVR Pick + Shea Theodore.

To Anaheim: Kesler + 36h OVR Pick (if absolutely needed).

With these two Vancouver trades, obviously we get the 1st OVR Pick that so many of you seem to want, some 1st round picks, along with B level Offensive-Dman prospect who was drafted 26th OVR last year in a deep draft. Obvious Benning is going to pick Reinhart with the 1st OVR pick if he gets it. He's basically spelt it out to us. Therefore, our draft would look something like....

1st OVR : Sam Reinhart

10th OVR: Ritchie/Virtanen (Nylander will be long gone by then).

Along with possibly drafting Josh Ho-Sang with the 24th OVR pick.