Improving our draft picks!

[nuck luck]

To be fair, Crosby and the Sedins are completely different beasts.

Thanks, I was going to argue that the Sedins are unique....but your response, simple and better.

Anson Carter got a $2.5 million contract as a result of that season. I think it worked. His boosted numbers made him seem for valuable than he was. If he wasn't a free agent, the Canucks could have gotten more for him than he was worth.

I agree...I think there's a lot of players who's numbers get boosted when paired with the elites, resulting in a bigger contract or increasing their trade value.

Kunitz/Dupius with Crosby

Burrows with the Sedins

Cheechoo with Thornton

Bozak with Kessel

etc.

It can and has worked.

Still, not the greatest idea, better to play one of the good prospects with them (Shinkaruk, Virtanen, Jensen, etc).

Maybe not the greatest, agreed. But, I think the timing for the above players might be relatively close...filling out our top 6. If Bo, McCann and other fill out the other spots, the Sedins might be better utilized on the 3rd...and if so, we may not have the elite prospects, mentioned above, to pair them with. I'm not saying this will happen in the next couple years....possibly the last year of their contracts or if they re-sign.

At this point, I think pairing a player like Labate wouldn't hurt the Sedin line (3rd) and he will put up points due to being on the ice with the Sedins.

Saw the and totally get it, but for those who don't, I'll take this seriously for a moment.

That was a completely different situation from what the OP is suggesting. Hodgson wasn't matched with elite skill players to make him look more talented than he was. He was sheltered with butter soft matchups and favorable zonestarts, so as to cover up his deficiencies in skating and defensive awareness.

With respect to Hansen and Raymond (Hodgson's most frequent wingers that year), they're not the Sedins. They were a pair of great skaters who had excellent two-way games and were among the team's best defensive forwards. They were there to protect Hodgson from himself. They were talented enough to help pad his stats during soft minutes, but it's not like they carried Hodgson offensively (the one area where he was the most talented player on that line).

And we saw this proven after the trade. Hodgson produced offense but he was abysmal defensively and bled goals against with the Sabres. Defensively speaking, he gave the coaches fits, eventually resulting in benchings and demotions, and trying him out on the wing, as he struggled to cover the ice as a top-six centreman at the NHL level.

He still had the offensive skills to be a good NHL player, and he's slowly improving his weak areas with time, but Hodgson was a fair ways away from being an effective NHL centre when we traded him (in terms of a having a complete 200 foot game) and he's still not really a player I'd want centering one of the Canucks' top lines.

His usage leading up to the trade was very effective in disguising these shortcomings.

This was a well thought out and very shrewd move by Gillis and it paid off.

Thanks for understanding my point. It worked in the past and it should work again.... Coho was the example I wanted to use.

Coho lacked in other areas, so MG assisted him with defensive help and used his match ups to get the most production out of Coho... We could do the same thing, but slightly different, pairing a prospect with the Sedins. Pair up a defensively sound forward prospect with size and all the other qualities that GMs cherish ....and this prospect would only need "some" skills and his production will be inflated playing on a line with the Sedins.

Being defensively sound, the prospect shouldn't hurt this line and at worst, he might learn to find his confidence and scoring touch playing with the Sedins.... we could trade him or develop him. Either way... it's an option, maybe not the best, but available if needed.

[timberz21]

If the Sedins are playing 2nd line and 3rd line, that mean they really slowed down to like 40-50pts.

How the hell will a rookie inflate their number or look good with declining players.

Even if a mediocre prospect has better numbers, it's not like we'll get a godly return. We got Vey for a 2nd picks, which is a really good return for him, and part of why we paid that much is because of the connection with the coach mainly.

So it seems like an aweful lot of trouble just to get a 3rd/4th rounder pick.

[bluesman60]

Well if you are astute enough to peg a prospect as not good enough to play in the NHL, don't you think every GM out there is keenly aware of the same thing?

I wouldn't be so quick to write off any prospect because some just take longer to develop than higher picks.

The Sedins' had a huge drop in production last season to the 50 pt area, does that mean that they are now 3rd liners?

[TOMapleLaughs]

The Sedins purpose is not to increase the value of fringe players

They've been doing it for years. However, GM's aren't stupid. Beyond MacLean that is. (Did he sign Carter?)

[FaninMex]

Someone is gonna have to remember this for me cause it is really vague.

Didn't Edmonton do this to us by playing some bum with Gretzky, he the traded this player to us and made the comment afterwards that Gretzky could make a pylon score.

???

[nuck luck]

If the Sedins are playing 2nd line and 3rd line, that mean they really slowed down to like 40-50pts.

How the hell will a rookie inflate their number or look good with declining players.

Even if a mediocre prospect has better numbers, it's not like we'll get a godly return. We got Vey for a 2nd picks, which is a really good return for him, and part of why we paid that much is because of the connection with the coach mainly.

So it seems like an aweful lot of trouble just to get a 3rd/4th rounder pick.

First of all, you need to remember that the Sedins are unique players, unlike any other pairing in the NHL. So, to look for past references is a wasteful exercise. AND, I NEVER said a rookie would inflate their numbers....opposite in fact.

These guys never had the size, they were never "fast" and they weren't aggressive in terms of hits. They play their game with other skills and attributes that have earned them elite status like having a high IQ on the ice, endurance and stamina due to their high-end work ethics and they are wizards with the puck. Players who possess these attributes won't decline as quickly as other players...and they are still useful in their roles on and off the ice.

When our younger players begin to fill out the top lines, the Sedins will be a huge threat against any opponents because the skills they possess would still be very high and they would be able to skate around any weaker opponents, at the worst, they would boost the Penalty difference in our favor when on the ice.

If we add a defensively responsible player with a lot of "juicy" attributes and some minor skills, the Sedins should be able to help that player hit the back of the net...they've done this for years against the top lines, put the Sedins up against slower, less-skilled players and their production levels should still be relatively high.

The return: I see your argument with Vey, I would have preferred the pick, but Bennings knows more about this player, so it's all good. However, Vey is not an NHLer...he's still a prospect and he was still worth the 2nd.

The Sedins won't be playing in the AHL so any player that I'm talking about would be a full-time NHLer... so the value would be that much higher cause he'd be proven.

One good year for any player, especially if they're in their 1st year, will dramatically increase their value to most GMs in the NHL... just a recent look back and you can see Johansen from Columbus.

Ryan Johansen's got size and all the attributes every GM wants, but....he's only got 1 year in the NHL, granted, it was a pretty good year. However, cause his production was above expectations, he's able to ask a lot more and I think many GMs would be willing to give him that offer, except Columbus. This is not a comparison of Johansen to any of our players....just an example of what one good season will do in terms of perceived value for a player.

Well if you are astute enough to peg a prospect as not good enough to play in the NHL, don't you think every GM out there is keenly aware of the same thing?

I wouldn't be so quick to write off any prospect because some just take longer to develop than higher picks.

The Sedins' had a huge drop in production last season to the 50 pt area, does that mean that they are now 3rd liners?

How long have you been watching the NHL? What makes you think that these GMs are that smart? I've seen some pretty dumb moves and it's not just a one-time thing....it happens on a continuous basis with various GMs. Most of the GMs are ex-hockey players....since when does that equate to smart? To automatically assume that every GM is smart is the opposite of astute... I'm not saying they're all "slow", but we only need one GM.

Also, I completely disagree with you on every GM being "keenly" aware....I would say they aren't. They might be keenly aware of the top-end players, at best, but "every" prospect for every team...highly doubtful. I think there's a lot of members on CDC who are keenly aware of our prospects and have a much better grasp on the Canucks prospects than other GMs from other teams...not saying I'm one of the members, but I appreciate their comments in the Prospects Forum.

Your last two sentences make no sense....not sure where you read that I was writing off any of our prospects and I have always defended the Sedins and last year, I KNOW it's an anomaly. I'm not talking about this happening next year or even the year after... I said,

"Once the Sedins begin to decline ...."

How do you comprehend this? To me, it states that they haven't declined yet, but they will decline in the future....

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Someone is gonna have to remember this for me cause it is really vague.

Didn't Edmonton do this to us by playing some bum with Gretzky, he the traded this player to us and made the comment afterwards that Gretzky could make a pylon score.

???

I vaguely remember that as well.

... Ten minute Google search later and I think it was Blair BJ MacDonald.

[nuck luck]

I don't know how I overlooked it, but a much easier example could be found right here in our backyard. This is not a "dig" at Benning cause his hands were tied, but... Bonino is the perfect example.

Bonino had a great and unexpected year....and it's also well known that he was sheltered and given favorable conditions when on the ice. I still think he is legit, but he's an example of a player who had increased numbers due to his deployment.

I'm sure it happens a lot more than we realize....or care to notice.

[It's Bieksa's Fault]

Sheltering a player to cover up his weak points such as what we did with Hodgson does often work, as other GMs didn't have many chances to see Hodgson in defensive situations and as such were not able to assess his defensive game. Inflating a player's stats does not usually work because most GMs can see that the player is being carried by their line mates.

[groovy]

Someone is gonna have to remember this for me cause it is really vague.

Didn't Edmonton do this to us by playing some bum with Gretzky, he the traded this player to us and made the comment afterwards that Gretzky could make a pylon score.

???

BJ MacDonald :-( Pittsburg had Warren Young playing with Mario. I get your basic idea but I guess Burrows should have been dealt after a good year then.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

but... Bonino is the perfect example.

I'm not sure I agree there. We didn't trade Kesler for Bonino. We traded Kesler for Bonino, Sbisa, and a late first-round draft pick. I don't think he is overvalued in that equation.

[nuck luck]

I'm not sure I agree there. We didn't trade Kesler for Bonino. We traded Kesler for Bonino, Sbisa, and a late first-round draft pick. I don't think he is overvalued in that equation.

I absolutely agree with what you wrote...I think I could have worded it differently to make it clearer.

What I meant to say is that Bonino is still a question mark. Nobody really knows how well he will do, he could become a solid 2nd line center or he might be a disappointment... we only have his previous years work to go on and because it was "brushed", we don't know what the results will be.

However, it obviously raised enough interest to be included in the trade for Kesler and he was a significant part of the trade.

I'm good with the trade and I think he might surprise, but than again, I'm not sure cause he'll be playing against stiffer competition and expected to put up the same points or more....

This is my point about the Canucks using this "inflation" option on one of our own players....Labate for example. If we paired him with the Sedins on the 3rd (3/4 years later) and he could put up decent points....other teams will have interest in a trade, maybe not a 1 for 1 deal, but maybe a multiple trade deal like we just did.

I think Labates got the size and he's defensively sound, the only problem is he's lacking in goal scoring abilities.... if he shows this, he is what all teams are fishing for and they might be willing to take a bite. Tantalizing thought for a player with his size that can play defensively.....and score.

[JeremyCuddles]

I feel bad that in all this time the Sedins haven't had a linemate that was worth a damn. Burr was that guy but stopped doing the things that made him great, like all the other linemates we force them to endure.

[Gurn]

"Burr was that guy but stopped doing the things that made him great, like all the other linemates we force them to endure."

Do you think injuries might have had something to do with that?

[JeremyCuddles]

"Burr was that guy but stopped doing the things that made him great, like all the other linemates we force them to endure."

Do you think injuries might have had something to do with that?

Injuries? Last year was the only real year he's lost huge time to injuries. Unless you go back to the 2010-2011 season which he lost a massive 10 games.

[erkayloomeh]

Pretty sure NHL GM's are a little bit smarter then that.

what the op is suggesting is exactly what Edmonton did to us in the BJ Macdonald trade.

[Gollumpus]

what the op is suggesting is exactly what Edmonton did to us in the BJ Macdonald trade.

I always saw the sequence of events as being more what the Nordiques did to us.

The Canucks had Marois (the best player involved), and he was traded to Quebec for Lariviere who turned out to be no great shakes (other minor pieces were also involved on each side). They then traded Lariviere for MacDonald (with other minor pieces on both sides).

regards,

G.

[IBatch]

Not....going...to....happen.

[PuckRock33]

Once the Sedins begin to decline and start playing the 2nd line or possibly the 3rd, I think it might be an option to start playing our mediocre prospects on the same line with them. This could greatly enhance their (prospects) production and inflate their numbers so that other GM's might target them and make some ridiculous trade offers?

Thoughts?

I see your thought process, but I think with the advanced analytics all teams use this would be very hard to pull off. I think a more useful strategy would be more of the Chicago model of playing a top prospect in a situation you want him to play in and dealing with the growing pains (Brendan Saad playing on a line with Toews). If you want a player to be a top 6 guy don't play him with the Sestitos, and Weise's on your team. Nothing against them but that is not a role you want a future offensive "star" getting his minutes. Their minutes need to come in the situation you see them helping your team and their development best. Shinkaruk playing with the Sedins makes more sense to me than him getting 5 minutes on the fourth line and some 2nd unit pp time.

[thrago]

This might be off topic a bit but what really concerns me is that we have had 15 drafts since we drafted the Sedins and haven't managed to draft one first line player or defenseman. I can't help thinking we are going to be in for a long stretch of low scoring games when the Sedins are no longer able to play 1st line minutes. I really hope that one or more of our recently drafted players can surprise and become PPG or better players.

I really hope we can continue the trend we have had over the last two draft where we picked two players in the first round for at least another couple years. I think our drafting over the last four years has been the best we have ever had given our draft position but we still don't have any clear first line players in our system. Time will tell but it sure would be nice to draft someone that all the hockey world agrees will be a franchise player.