This is Getting Harder to Ignore

[Rob_Zepp]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

I agree with most of what you said, just not that there will be an inevitable drop off.  I think that is far from a given.  If they can get the same goaltending they've been getting, they'll be able to maintain this level of play.

Would be awesome if they did and ahead of schedule too and I would be one of the first to say "well done boys!" but I just don't see it yet but, as above many times, I will be more than happy to be wrong.   Still think the team needs some more depth but the encouraging thing is most of that depth is already Canuck property and developing nicely.  

[stawns]

Just now, Rob_Zepp said:

Would be awesome if they did and ahead of schedule too and I would be one of the first to say "well done boys!" but I just don't see it yet but, as above many times, I will be more than happy to be wrong.   Still think the team needs some more depth but the encouraging thing is most of that depth is already Canuck property and developing nicely.  

I think the probability of having to endure through this level of injuries again this year is pretty low.  So if they weather thjis storm for the next month and maintain (or close to) this level, they are sitting in a pretty good spot going into the second half of the season.

[Gaudette Celly]

42 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44ever said:

They said on hockey central today Burke marek and McLean that this is in no way sustainable.

Based on what, exactly?  It's not like they're getting superstar goaltending that's holding them in, or getting flukey goals to luck-out wins.  It's like saying the trapping 90's Lemieux Devils play was "unsustainable".  It's about the way they're playing, not lucky bounces.

 

Quote

I don’t disagree. the team has a minus one goal differential and isn’t winning all the games in blowout fashion, many were close ones.

And they won because of work ethic and determination.  How is that not sustainable, unless players decide "Hey, I'm tired of working hard and winning.  Let's ease up and stop that nonsense."

 

Quote

we don’t have the depth or

derfense and goaltending to survive but our division is just crap.

If we don't have the depth, then why are the results still there despite the injuries to key players?  How are we "surviving"?  Again, there's no flukes, lucky bounces, or Vezina goaltending bailing us out.  And as for "crap division", 5 of the top 10 and 7 of the top 12 teams in the conference are from the Pacific.  Every division has 5 or more teams .500 or better.

[oldnews]

26 minutes ago, SergioMomesso said:

Let's give a lot of credit to coach Green. Not a rookie coach anymore. Looks like he is a lot more prepared game after game and not afraid to sit guys who aren't playing up to his standards. Imagine coming to a team with vets who have scored tons of points throughout their careers and trying to implement his style of play?  That's a tough sell for a rookie coach. This year has allowed him to coach the team how he wants to with no vets questioning his motives. Not saying any of last years vets had any say in what he did and didn't do. I think Green seemed a little more tentative last year than this season so far.

I think it may be less the 'rookie' factor and more that he's that many steps closer to having the kind of team he needs to make his systems successful.

 

I agree that he's not afraid to sit guys that aren't performing - and something I really like about him - he seems to be able to do that without being 'too hard' on them.  He wants everyone to be successful, and at the same time has a level-headed tone and forthright honesty about what players need to do, while giving other players opportunities doesn't necessarily read as a punishment of that guy.   He seems to mix his rewards around in some ways as well - and players appear to accept /embrace the way he handles the roster in general.

 

I think of how positive and engaged Virtanen has seemed throughout Green's tenure - playing less minutes than some may wish from his pedigree, and playing more shutdown/matchup type minutes than may typically go to a talented young forward.   None of that seems to have limited Virtanen's growth - if anything he looks to be on a very solid development trajectory.  And when I look around that team, with the exception of perhaps Hutton last season, it's hard to find a player that you'd consider to have 'underachieved' on his watch (maybe LE, but you don't typically hold a coach accountable for a 32yr old's performance, and in LE's case, I don't think it's a character issue).

[Dombrova22]

The boys are back in town, the boys are back in tooooooown! Pettersson/BoHo taking us to the playoffs baby. Anything is possible once that happens 

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I am an unabashed fan of Guddy and supported him as a Canuck since he joined......often been a lonely road that one for sure...lol.   

FTR, I was making trade proposals for him prior to the trade and have been a staunch defender/supporter since we landed him.

 

Not all of us are myopic simpletons

[Kevin Biestra]

38 minutes ago, Dombrova22 said:

The boys are back in town, the boys are back in tooooooown! Pettersson/BoHo taking us to the playoffs baby. Anything is possible once that happens 

 

Petterson's gonna get bodyslammed like it's Wrestlemania II.

 

[aGENT]

12 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Based on what, exactly? 

We do have things like unlikely to sustain shooting %, our negative goal differential (one of the largest/most obvious predictors of playoff teams) will likely come back to haunt us at some point etc.

 

Basically there's likely to be some 'regression to the mean'. That said, some of that will undoubtedly be countered by getting very key guys back from injury as well. And it's hard to account for the 'Pettersson factor'.

 

I'll be surprised by neither outcome at this point. And happy to drink whichever flavour of gravy we end up with (playoffs or high pick flavour). I'm just happy to see progression and fun hockey.

 

 

 

 

[oldnews]

13 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Based on what, exactly?  It's not like they're getting superstar goaltending that's holding them in, or getting flukey goals to luck-out wins.  It's like saying the trapping 90's Lemieux Devils play was "unsustainable".  It's about the way they're playing, not lucky bounces.

 

And they won because of work ethic and determination.  How is that not sustainable, unless players decide "Hey, I'm tired of working hard and winning.  Let's ease up and stop that nonsense."

 

If we don't have the depth, then why are the results still there despite the injuries to key players?  How are we "surviving"?  Again, there's no flukes, lucky bounces, or Vezina goaltending bailing us out.  And as for "crap division", 5 of the top 10 and 7 of the top 12 teams in the conference are from the Pacific.  Every division has 5 or more teams .500 or better.

Yeah - I don't think there's any question that they have far better depth than they've had in a long time.  I'd compare their depth favourably to their contending years - a bottom six with Sutter, Beagle, Granlund, Motte, Schaller, Roussel, Virtanen, Gaunce, Archibald, Gaudette.....that's as good, if not better, than the bottom six of their Cup contending years.

 

The real question was whether the top end of their forward group - the primary scoring, skilled youth - would be productive enough, would score enough this early to be competitive.

 

Well, not only has that been the case - but it's been the case in spite of injuries to half their top 6 already and arguably the most crucial scoring elements of their top 6 (EP, Boeser and Baertschi). 

That is absolutely about their depth - plain and simple.  Horvat has clearly stepped up - but scoring is coming from Granlund, Virtanen, Goldobin, Eriksson - and unexpected blueline sources (or at least players that could not be expected to produce).

 

This is clearly a depth driven team right now.  They may not have high end replacements when Boeser or Pettersson are out of the lineup, but the fact they keep winning underscores their depth - and the fact that when players like Sutter or Beagle went down, there are talented young guys like Gaudette or Gaunce (or Archie to recall) - and as their top pairing has gone down, the Gudbranson/Hutton pairing stepped up significantly, as did Stecher, Pouliot., Biega.   They were even wiinning with a struggling MDZ in the lineup.  What other explanation is there than relatively seemless depth stepping in and contributing?

[Isam]

55 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

You can add Edler to the list of players who can devastate with a hit.

Add jett woo in three years time. Hell of an open ice hitter.

[drdeath]

It took until June for midnight to end Vegas’ ball last year. There’s really no way of knowing when this bubble will burst. Last year should have taught us that the folks saying “this can’t possibly last” might have to say it for a while. 

[Isam]

40 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Would be awesome if they did and ahead of schedule too and I would be one of the first to say "well done boys!" but I just don't see it yet but, as above many times, I will be more than happy to be wrong.   Still think the team needs some more depth but the encouraging thing is most of that depth is already Canuck property and developing nicely.  

I think we will rob, but it is so cool seeing flashes on what this team will become. The fans are excited a little too much at this moment, but can't blame them.

[oldnews]

22 minutes ago, aGENT said:

We do have things like unlikely to sustain shooting %, our negative goal differential (one of the largest/most obvious predictors of playoff teams) will likely come back to haunt us at some point etc.

 

Basically there's likely to be some 'regression to the mean'. That said, some of that will undoubtedly be countered by getting very key guys back from injury as well. And it's hard to account for the 'Pettersson factor'.

 

Not necessarily true.

 

The shooting % may 'return to mean' - although this group has not really establshed a 'mean' - and you can't separate an increase in shooting percentage from the far more effective shots - of Pettersson and Boeser - in the lineup - which naturally leads to openings for other players to exploit as well....

 

But that's one metric - while so is save % - and the likelihood that our starter's sv% will 'return to mean' - effectively equal and opposite to what may 'catch up with and haunt us'.

 

Shooting % is up - and sv % is down - throughout the league  - the Canucks haven't been riding a wave of luck - or an unusually high pdo - these things have counterbalanced each other.   

 

Additionally, what if they 'return to the mean' of the normal team - ie not having a handful of top 6 F and top but we would have heard the same chorus a year ago regarding Las Vegas, with as near consensus as it comes believing they would not sustain that season - but as it turned out, it was long beyond those 4 D out of the lineup at any given time.

 

I don't think there's any real basis to claim they 'can't sustain' what they're doing - that's really just belief.

Last year we heard the same thing nearly season-long - expectations that Vegas would relent, but they did not.

Of course, other teams do - but the idea that there's something fundamentally missing from the team's abiltity to compete and sustain - imo is nothing aside from injuries, and even those may not be as predictable as we're used to.

[Isam]

33 minutes ago, aGENT said:

FTR, I was making trade proposals for him prior to the trade and have been a staunch defender/supporter since we landed him.

 

Not all of us are myopic simpletons

Yeah you guys were not alone.

[Down by the River]

4 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

Let's just say, best you don't know.  A local blowhard who always talks in absolutes while contradicting himself, and constantly chuckles and chortles, calling everyone "brother".

He has lacked the ability to say anything relevant ever since he stopped plagiarizing other people. 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

Not necessarily true.

 

The shooting % may 'return to mean' - although this group has not really establshed a 'mean' - and you can't separate an increase in shooting percentage from the far more effective shots - of Pettersson and Boeser - in the lineup - which naturally leads to openings for other players to exploit as well....

 

But that's one metric - while so is save % - and the likelihood that our starter's sv% will 'return to mean' - effectively equal and opposite to what may 'catch up with and haunt us'.

 

Shooting % is up - and sv % is down - throughout the league  - the Canucks haven't been riding a wave of luck - or an unusually high pdo - these things have counterbalanced each other.   

 

Additionally, what if they 'return to the mean' of the normal team - ie not having a handful of top 6 F and top but we would have heard the same chorus a year ago regarding Las Vegas, with as near consensus as it comes believing they would not sustain that season - but as it turned out, it was long beyond those 4 D out of the lineup at any given time.

 

I don't think there's any real basis to claim they 'can't sustain' what they're doing - that's really just belief.

Last year we heard the same thing nearly season-long - expectations that Vegas would relent, but they did not.

Of course, other teams do - but the idea that there's something fundamentally missing from the team's abiltity to compete and sustain - imo is nothing aside from injuries, and even those may not be as predictable as we're used to.

There isn't really a basis to make either claim. Sports be unpredictable yo (see: VGK last year).

 

That's basically my entire point.

 

Like I said, won't be surprised by either outcome and perfectly happy with either result so long as I continue to see organizational progression and entertaining hockey. 

 

Win, win.

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, Isam said:

Yeah you guys were not alone.

Didn't I have a multi page argument about him with you? 

[ABNucksfan]

 

[Isam]

Just now, aGENT said:

Didn't I have a multi page argument about him with you? 

Oh yeah man., but i had an open mind. His gap control this year has been great. Still, the &^@#er has to use his shot more. Lol.

[Gaudette Celly]

49 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I think of how positive and engaged Virtanen has seemed throughout Green's tenure - playing less minutes than some may wish from his pedigree, and playing more shutdown/matchup type minutes than may typically go to a talented young forward.   None of that seems to have limited Virtanen's growth - if anything he looks to be on a very solid development trajectory.

And speaking of, it appears he will be joining EP's line tomorrow morning.  Hopefully this helps somewhat with the "brutal IQ" pejorative some continue to berate him with, because even in limited time yesterday he didn't look out of place with him.

 

11 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Shooting % is up - and sv % is down - throughout the league  - the Canucks haven't been riding a wave of luck - or an unusually high pdo - these things have counterbalanced each other.  

And I'm going to again point to the new goalie equipment.  Have yet to see how long it will take for them to adapt, and certainly some will better and more quickly than others.  Could well force some right out of the league, those who relied too heavily on their gear.