[Discussion] Canuck Players Trade Value Just Rocketed Up.

[TheGuardian_]

This is not a trade thread, it is an observation and question of what is best for this team, the rebuild and future of the team.

 

Benning is almost pushed into a corner of having two of the best dmen that could be available, both which might garner a first round pick each. IMO a conditional first round pick either this year or next might be really available.

 

The market is hot and Benning has to/shoould take advantage of the pressure other teams are feeling or acting on, the value will never be higher. If he states he will wait until the draft he is demonstrating a true lack of understanding, at the draft Edler and Tanev will be one of 40+ available dmen, hardly increases their value. Right now they are #'s 1 & 2 BPA if Benning works on it.

 

The team is playing without them now so no real loss, the team more than 5 points and competing with 7 teams for the last wild card spot, if they play .500 hockey they miss by 6 points.

 

Do you think Benning should pull the trigger, there is a thread stating Edler controls if he goes, partially true, The Canucks just simply tell him he accepts a trade and a re-signing or finds another team next year, either way the Canucks lose nothing and Edler has to do what he doesn't want to do anyway. Tanev will have some control but he does live in the Toronto/ Buffalo area and might accept a deal in that area.  

 

A smart GM might also be able to garner the deal as a favour to be returned later if engineered properly, it is the old boy's network.

 

This is not a trade thread, this is a thread similar to the Tryamkin value thread, the re-sign Edler thread, the tank thread but is different from them all because it discusses a bigger picture and result and no trade teams or suggested deals. I post this because most threads suggesting Benning's overall job get shuffled to a different obscure forum.

[Ajax-]

2 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

This is not a trade thread, it is an observation and question of what is bet for this team, the rebuild and future of the team.

 

Benning is almost pushed into a corner of having two of the best dmen that could be available, both which might garner a first round pick each. IMO a conditional first round pick either this year or next might be really available.

 

The market is hot and Benning has to/shoould take advantage of the pressure other teams are feeling or acting on, the value will never be higher. If he states he will wait until the draft he is demonstrating a true lack of understanding, at the draft Edler and Tanev will be one of 40+ available dmen, hardly increases their value. Right now they are #'s 1 & 2 BPA if Benning works on it.

 

The team is playing without them now so no real loss, the team more than 5 points and competing with 7 teams for the last wild card spot, if they play .500 hockey they miss by 6 points.

 

Do you think Benning should pull the trigger, there is a thread stating Edler controls if he goes, partially true, The Canucks just simply tell him he accepts a trade and a re-signing or finds another team next year, either way the Canucks lose nothing and Edler has to do what he doesn't want to do anyway. Tanev will have some control but he does live in the Toronto/ Buffalo area and might accept a deal in that area.  

 

A smart GM might also be able to garner the deal as a favour to be returned later is engineered properly, it is the old boy's network.

 

This is not a trade thread, this is a thread similar to the Tryamkin value thread, the re-sign Edler thread, the tank thread but is different from them all because it discusses a bigger picture and result. I post this because most threads suggesting Benning's overall job get shuffled to a different obscure forum.

sure sounds like a trade thread

 

Edler and Tanev are needed. Period

[coastal.view]

they are both injured presently

 

but man you are so right about rockets - they are exciting

 

[Quantum]

1 minute ago, AbrasiveAjax said:

sure sounds like a trade thread

 

Edler and Tanev are needed. Period

I disagree. I think only 1 one of them is needed. They're both so injury prone that they have become liabilities. They're also getting older. Edler especially. He's already one of the 50 oldest NHL d-man currently in the league and he's only going to climb up the ranks every year he stays. Jason Botchford was screaming this on the radio the other day -- 30 IS OLD for the NHL nowadays, especially for d-men. And Edler is over 30. And Tanev is getting dangerously close to 30. The league has become so fast, young, and skilled that we're already seeing guys like Gudbranson fall apart a year after he signed an extension. We don't need more cumbersome contracts on the books.

 

The Canucks also need to clear a d-man out for Quinn Hughes this season. So unless they're prepared to waive Pouliot/Biega in a few weeks, freeing up that spot will be key. And then next year, the Canucks will need to find room for Jack Rathbone who has been doing VERY WELL in the NCAA this year at Harvard. That's a second guy to free a spot for. And we're not even talking about Oli Juolevi who will need a spot after having his first healthy, injury free summer since he got drafted. He's probably challenging for a spot this September. That's a SECOND GUY you've got to make room.

 

Ideally our d-core looks like this:

 

Stecher - Hutton

Hughes - Tanev

Juolevi - Gudbranson?!?

 

Extras: Sautner, UFA signing

 

So that roster doesn't even include Edler. Or Pouliot, or Biega. Or whoever. And now you're saying WE MUST HAVE EDLER? Where does Edler fit in on this roster next year or the year after this one? I just don't see it.

 

An easy solution would be to find a spot to trade Gudbranson. Maybe Florida wants him back? Arizona? There's a taker somewhere. If you move Gudbranson you could probably keep Edler around but somebody's got to go... this d-group isn't good enough to be "kept together".

 

Now there's always the chance Juolevi doesn't make it but I get the feeling he'll get the chance, there's too much riding on him to make it.

 

So yeah, I don't see how both are essential for this d-core.

 

You can easily swap Tanev out for Edler and you'd run into the same problems. This team just needs to acquire futures. It's not good enough yet... but it will be good enough in another year.

[Baggins]

The value of two injured d-men skyrockets because..... ?

 

There\s no bigger picture here. There's no picture at all. It's all been discussed in other threads. Both are injured. Benning is in negotiations to extend Edler.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

I don't know how many times it has to be said but Alexander Edler does not want to waive his clause and the team values him as a leader on defense who can not only be the top performing allround defenseman but at this stage in his career is a leader, mentor if you will. Not sure why the team would move him at this time.

 

I will say should contract extension discussions slow or sour and its before the deadline there is I guess a very slight chance he'd waive his clause to join another club if the team was able to pull a 1st rounder or good asset(s) in return, assuming he accepts that maybe he won't re-sign in Vancouver. Extremely outside chance though.

 

Tanev, his valued rocketed several years ago, he was spoken of as one of the better pure defensemen in the game, one dimensional maybe but since the team has allowed him remain in Vancouver past his peaked value and continual injuries have chipped away at that value. Now should say Toronto or some other club really want a right handed defensive blueliner by the deadline and said team is not on Tanev's no go list then again maybe an outside chance you see a move, i'd hold your breath at this point though if you think you'd see a 1st rounder for him.

 

Gudbranson or Hutton just as likely to move before Monday's deadline.

[TheGuardian_]

17 minutes ago, AbrasiveAjax said:

sure sounds like a trade thread

 

Edler and Tanev are needed. Period

Value thread and how this period of time increase their value and Benning's increase in leverage as long as he doesn't as for something really silly, he could probably just sayt they are on the market and let the market set the value. The media has lesser dmen going for multiple picks and prospects and these guys are what other team's want, playoff experience and skill. On different teams their ice time is likely reduced so a lesser chance of injury. 

10 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

they are both injured presently

 

but man you are so right about rockets - they are exciting

 

Injured but coming back hence "conditions" on a trade, number of games, how far in the playoffs etc, a Tanev deal might be for a 2020 pick so there is time to build into a trade deal.

[alt kilgore]

How many times have the hapless Canucks had some of their best tradeable assets injured at the TDL .   I remember Hamhuis, the two years before we did trade him. Vrbata, and I know there were others. Tanev, Edler, Sutter, even Baer might have been a part of a package.  Grrrr

[TheGuardian_]

8 minutes ago, Baggins said:

The value of two injured d-men skyrockets because..... ?

 

There\s no bigger picture here. There's no picture at all. It's all been discussed in other threads. Both are injured. Benning is in negotiations to extend Edler.

Should he not investigate every possibility to improve the team and speed up the rebuild? Signing Edler is just maintaining the status quo and declining, actually going backwards up the 2021 season.

 

The other threads have not taken into account the ADDED value this time presents just look at what # 5 & 6 are getting, what most thought these two guys might get two weeks ago this makes this thread totally different, almost like discussing two different players altogether such is the increase in value for the Canuck rebuild and future.

[appleboy]

33 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

This is not a trade thread, it is an observation and question of what is bet for this team, the rebuild and future of the team.

 

Benning is almost pushed into a corner of having two of the best dmen that could be available, both which might garner a first round pick each. IMO a conditional first round pick either this year or next might be really available.

 

The market is hot and Benning has to/shoould take advantage of the pressure other teams are feeling or acting on, the value will never be higher. If he states he will wait until the draft he is demonstrating a true lack of understanding, at the draft Edler and Tanev will be one of 40+ available dmen, hardly increases their value. Right now they are #'s 1 & 2 BPA if Benning works on it.

 

The team is playing without them now so no real loss, the team more than 5 points and competing with 7 teams for the last wild card spot, if they play .500 hockey they miss by 6 points.

 

Do you think Benning should pull the trigger, there is a thread stating Edler controls if he goes, partially true, The Canucks just simply tell him he accepts a trade and a re-signing or finds another team next year, either way the Canucks lose nothing and Edler has to do what he doesn't want to do anyway. Tanev will have some control but he does live in the Toronto/ Buffalo area and might accept a deal in that area.  

 

A smart GM might also be able to garner the deal as a favour to be returned later is engineered properly, it is the old boy's network.

 

This is not a trade thread, this is a thread similar to the Tryamkin value thread, the re-sign Edler thread, the tank thread but is different from them all because it discusses a bigger picture and result. I post this because most threads suggesting Benning's overall job get shuffled to a different obscure forum.

The problem is that Benning and owners do not want to go backwards.  They would rather tread water until they drowned. They would rather hang on to these players until they are absolutely worthless.

[appleboy]

I hope that they will move Tanev and Sutter at the draft. 

[TheGuardian_]

3 minutes ago, kilgore said:

How many times have the hapless Canucks had some of their best tradeable assets injured at the TDL .   I remember Hamhuis, the two years before we did trade him. Vrbata, and I know there were others. Tanev, Edler, Sutter, even Baer might have been a part of a package.  Grrrr

Only serious injuries are a hindrance, neither Edler or Tanev need surgery or broken bones, Tanev will be back in two weeks or so and Edler may be TDL day.

[JM_]

37 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

 

A smart GM might also be able to garner the deal as a favour to be returned later is engineered properly, it is the old boy's network.

 

NO COLLUSION!!!!

[Baggins]

1 minute ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Should he not investigate every possibility to improve the team and speed up the rebuild? Signing Edler is just maintaining the status quo and declining, actually going backwards up the 2021 season.

 

The other threads have not taken into account the ADDED value this time presents just look at what # 5 & 6 are getting, what most thought these two guys might get two weeks ago this makes this thread totally different, almost like discussing two different players altogether such is the increase in value for the Canuck rebuild and future.

Edler is still our number 1 d-man. So no, I don't see retaining him as slowing anything down. It would be more in line with "change for the sake of change". I'd even go as far as saying where the team is Edler has more value to the team for 4 years than a guy may or may not make the NHL in 4 years time.

[alt kilgore]

1 minute ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Only serious injuries are a hindrance, neither Edler or Tanev need surgery or broken bones, Tanev will be back in two weeks or so and Edler may be TDL day.

I disagree to an extent.  GMs are naturally leery on acquiring injured players. I'm not saying its impossible, but there is an element of uncertainty.  Edler could get post concussion problems that puts him out all season. (see Baertschi).  Tanev...well, its just one more injury that even if its not serious, it does little to quell the MO of Tanev and his reputation for now being so injury prone. (will he get easily injured again for or in the playoffs?)  As well, most teams would want someone who can help them now, today.

 

I understand that the odds are in the favor of these two recovering in the next couple weeks. But its still an added risk for GMs to take. And if there is another healthy body that is of equal value in their eyes on another team, they will always choose the healthier variety.  Its just yet another disadvantage Canucks always seem to have. If its not travel or the schedule, its something else.  Wah wah wah, I know. I'll stop.

[canucklehead80]

15 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Only serious injuries are a hindrance, neither Edler or Tanev need surgery or broken bones, Tanev will be back in two weeks or so and Edler may be TDL day.

Wouldn't a concussion be considered serious? They can last longer then expected or have symptoms come back down the road (ie Sven)

[TheGuardian_]

3 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Edler is still our number 1 d-man. So no, I don't see retaining him as slowing anything down. It would be more in line with "change for the sake of change". I'd even go as far as saying where the team is Edler has more value to the team for 4 years than a guy may or may not make the NHL in 4 years time.

I suspect you are young but one reason Montreal won so many cups and were so good was they traded aging players for picks.

Will this team need Eriksson and Edler at 37+ yrs old paying them a combined 10 million? The team will still have Roussel and Beagle well over 33 and others close to or over 30. Chicago, Pittsburgh and LA were winning cups before their star players were 22 only LA had Kopitar at 24. That is two years for the window to open for the Canucks why wait until 2 or 3 years later?

 

Late picks have got teams Norris trophy candidates so the have me value than another team's cast off dman. An Edler deal could rest in getting a player like Burns, Keith, Gaudette, Weber, even a Lindstrom, picks this team will not get if Edler is not traded while his value is hot, he will not get anything 4 years from now.

 

[TheGuardian_]

8 minutes ago, kilgore said:

I disagree to an extent.  GMs are naturally leery on acquiring injured players. I'm not saying its impossible, but there is an element of uncertainty.  Edler could get post concussion problems that puts him out all season. (see Baertschi).  Tanev...well, its just one more injury that even if its not serious, it does little to quell the MO of Tanev and his reputation for now being so injury prone. (will he get easily injured again for or in the playoffs?)  As well, most teams would want someone who can help them now, today.

 

I understand that the odds are in the favor of these two recovering in the next couple weeks. But its still an added risk for GMs to take. And if there is another healthy body that is of equal value in their eyes on another team, they will always choose the healthier variety.  Its just yet another disadvantage Canucks always seem to have. If its not travel or the schedule, its something else.  Wah wah wah, I know. I'll stop.

There is no other players of Edler or Tanev's talent level and experience, like I posted, the "conditional" could mean number of games played or rounds of the playoffs.

But there are NO OTHER DMEN available better than them if they are marketed.

Benning is already fielding calls everyday about availability of them, even Gudbranson because other teams realize the Canucks are atleast another year away and will need to trade these aging assets, but the iron is white hot right now.

[Father Ryan]

I would readily trade Tanev at this point in time. He is almost useless offensively, and is not getting any younger. Yes, he is good at what he does, perhaps better than anyone on the team. But...Tanev, I feel, is just not quite as valuable to the team as Edler. Personally, I'd like to see Edler retire here.

 

What would Tanev bring? To a strong playoff team, perhaps one that feels it can honestly challenge, I could see a 1st round pick. To a team that feels adding Tanev would mean the difference between just making it or getting a couple of rounds in, I'd say a second plus a "B+" rated prospect. I don't see a non-playoff team wanting him.

[Drakrami]

After failing to trade these 2 for the past 3 years... People still think we are holding on to pocket Aces waiting to be traded for a treasure trove. Edler may be worth something good in the market since hes played well this year. Tanev, not so much.