We need to use our young guys and farm (Discussion)

[J.I.A.H.N]

HI

 

I have been wanting to have a discussion on this issue for some time.

 

As we are still evolving and getting closer to the TDL, it maddens me to some extent that Benning and Green have not begun short term call ups as any more that a way to raise their cap floor, with any player seldom getting any meaningful game experience, when called up. The other benefit of this is to be able to gauge their young players development in a game situation against other NHL talent.

 

I think it is extremely important, and I feel it is an area, where Benning and Green are not doing a good job.

 

As most of the regulars know, I am a big supporter of Benning and Green, and think they are doing great jobs, but I can not back them on this. How are we to know if they can fill in a spot from within if a trade comes up that makes sense and Benning wants to make a move. I am reminded that some players play better with higher IQ players, and some are game type players, that always play better in games, rather than practice.

 

I feel, bringing up players for short 1 to 3 game stints, is solid for development...….I think the follow players need to be brought up for those reasons.

 

Lind, Rafferty, Brisebois, Jasek, and Juolevi need to be looked at

 

the same can be said for playing both Demko and McEwen on a more consistent basis

 

Winning can not be the short game, at the expense of the over all picture...…...

 

After all, just look at Fantenburg as an example......IMO, absolutely no one on CDC had any idea that Fantenburg could play as well as he could until he got into the line up, and when he did he out played Benn, putting Benn up in the press box.

 

The funny thing is Green and Benning did not know, until he got in and got some playing time...…..

 

So could there be others?

 

 

[VegasCanuck]

I think there are 2 things happening here.

 

#1, Canucks are really chasing a playoff spot, HARD. If they need to pull someone up for a few games, that player is either going to only practice with the team, or play limited minutes until he earns the coaches trust. If we were trending towards the bottom of the league, I think you'd see more of players being called up for a look and some experience, this WILL happen later season if the Canucks fall out of contention.

#2. Canucks have limited cap space, as we all know, and this restricts pulling kids up, JUST to give them some time with the Canucks, even if its just practicing and working with the Vancouver training and coaching staff for a week or so. I think we would have seen more of this, if Luongo had taken LTIR route instead of deciding to retire and saddle us with the recapture hit. Right now, we have about 30k of cap space, so unless someone decides that they will take a flyer on Baerstchi and take him off our books, don't expect anything that you're suggesting to happen unless we hit further injuries and need replacements.

 

I agree that it would be great to see how they can perform in the NHL, but until either of those 2 points are resolved, I can't see it happening.

[timberz21]

I don't really agree.   Why play yoyo with these guys?  They are having a strong season in Utica, leave them there and let them play in an environment where they are succeeding.  We played yoyo with Gaudette to start the season and it took a while to get going for him.  Now that he's been with the Canucks for a while he's settled in nicely.

 

The next thing you know if they are called up and don't perform as CDC expected (which is over-the-top crazy expectation), they will call for Benning and Green's head for hindering their development.

 

The only reason for them to get a call-up would be if there is a significant injury to a core player and they are being called on a semi-permanent basis (3 or 4+ weeks).

Edited January 9, 2020 by timberz21

[Elias Pettersson]

The only guy on your list who is ready for prime time is Rafferty because he is already 24 years old and is at a point a game.  I wouldn't bring anyone else up until next year.  Zack seems ready as well but Green doesn't seem to want to play him.  Schaller isn't playing at his earlier level so you can take him out for Zack.  With Rafferty Stecher would need to be traded.

[VegasCanuck]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The only guy on your list who is ready for prime time is Rafferty because he is already 24 years old and is at a point a game.  I wouldn't bring anyone else up until next year.  Zack seems ready as well but Green doesn't seem to want to play him.  Schaller isn't playing at his earlier level so you can take him out for Zack.  With Rafferty Stecher would need to be traded.

I agree completely with that. I think he will get a look if we have a couple of guys go down on defense. Right now, we have Benn sitting most nights, so he steps in first, but really could see Rafferty getting a look on injury relief in the next couple of months.

[Nucker 67]

Does Edler get a pass every night? He tends to take more undisciplined penalties than any other Canuck, and with Benn sitting these days, shouldn't they give Edler a game off to rest (benching) and put Benn back in? I would like more production from Edler as well. 

 

I think the prospects will continue to play in Utica, until the Canucks actually need them. They're going for the playoffs, and trying out a green rookie may not be the best plan at this time.

[lmm]

I think this comes from having an inexperienced coach. It may well be partly because we are chasing a playoff spot as Vegas said, but not cap related. That does not explain Fanta sitting for 20+ games before getting aa sniff. That, I believe is an un-confident coach flexing his authority. This is a team ruled by the stick, with not much carrot. I cannot even explain what the carrot would look like for this team. ( I bet by this point Kanuckfanatic has already pressed the wonkie eyed e-moje) 

Earlier this season AV benched Ghostbiere, but he said in interview, something to the effect,' not to worry, we have tough games coming up and he will play'

Nick Nurse called out Terrance Davis, then started him the next day, Davis responded with a career high in points.

Pat Quinn would start a guy he just picked up from waivers.

 

I think there is too much emphisis on "earning you minutes" which paints the coaching staff in a corner. It was not possible for Fantenberg  to earn his minutes until injury  forced the coaches hand. 

It seems for some coaches that hockey is becoming more like football, where players need to "learn the play book" before they are given a chance. (yes I said "GIVEN")

I joked when Taylor Hall got traded that if he went to Vancouver he would have sat in the press box until he "learned the system"

 

THe irony in all this is that Caoch Green is a notorious line juggler, yet he is incapable of inserting a black ace into his line up. 

 

[coastal.view]

i thought we did that a lot last season

and in previous seasons

and how did that work out??

 

if you have an nhl calibre roster

you play it

if you do not, you fill holes with ahl players

and then your team clearly is not playoff worthy

 

i'm not seeing the capitals rotating into their roster their ahl players

most top/elite teams do not do this

unless injury requires it

not sure why this is even an issue

 

ahl players try to make the main team in training camp

if they do not, they are injury replacement call ups

or they try again at the next training camp

[JM_]

3 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

 

 

Lind, Rafferty, Brisebois, Jasek, and Juolevi need to be looked at

 

the same can be said for playing both Demko and McEwen on a more consistent basis

 

Dunno Jan, I think those guys are getting the time they need in Utica, thats all great experience for them. Even if they saw time up here it would be in diministed roles compared to what they're doing in Utica.

 

Demko is on pace for about 35 games started, thats pretty good for a rookie backup. 

 

Patience my friend, you'll see this guys next season. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Wonder how soon until we're "Windin' our way down Baker's St"?

[J.I.A.H.N]

So in other words......

 

A)…...Don't bring up a guy until there is an injury and you really need him and they will have no experience in how to deal with the NHL

and

B)…...Don't really test them, because you do not need to know what they can take, if you make a trade one of your players and they are

          the replacement

 

I totally disagree with you Peaps…..

You have to give them sometime when they are close

Because you want them to go back and know they still need to work on things

then....you know, like work on those things

 

Just little tastes....but when they come up...you got to play them

 

PS...I don't see what McEwen is learning from the Press Box

[coastal.view]

let us all know

when a team hires you as a gm

and you prove to us ignorants

how wrong we are

 

you can revolutionize hockey

good luck

[Junkyard Dog]

Don’t bring them up till we’re out of the playoff picture and/or we have a bunch of bodies out. 
 

They are in a pretty good environment in Utica     Rather let them flourish there than flounder here. 
 

Some of them will probably be here next year because I see us clearing cap and some of them might force there way here. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

On 1/9/2020 at 6:14 PM, Junkyard Dog said:

Don’t bring them up till we’re out of the playoff picture and/or we have a bunch of bodies out. 
 

They are in a pretty good environment in Utica     Rather let them flourish there than flounder here. 
 

Some of them will probably be here next year because I see us clearing cap and some of them might force there way here. 

Hell of a plan when you don't even know if they can play in the NHL

[J.I.A.H.N]

On 1/9/2020 at 6:07 PM, coastal.view said:

let us all know

when a team hires you as a gm

and you prove to us ignorants

how wrong we are

 

you can revolutionize hockey

good luck

Hey, if they hire me, I put some free tickets out for you

[Junkyard Dog]

1 minute ago, janisahockeynut said:

Hell of a plan when you don't even know if they can play in the NHL

Trying to make the playoffs it is probably not the grandest of ideas to play rookies that aren't impact players like Hughes.

 

We also have to sign Virtanen, Markstrom, Gaudette and Tanev next off-season and as it stands we don't have enough to sign all 4 so moving a Sutter, Baer, Benn would be necessary. They would be a lot easier to move with 1 year left. We will also probably let go of Stecher since his qualifying offer is gonna be too much. Worst case scenario we move Pearson or let go of Tanev which makes us a worse team. 

 

We kind of need someone on an ELC to step up next year. We're a little handcuffed till Eriksson/Luongo are gone though we maybe capable of moving some guys out like I said.

 

As bad as it sounds Loui could just retire too. It would solve a lot of problems.

[J.I.A.H.N]

7 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Trying to make the playoffs it is probably not the grandest of ideas to play rookies that aren't impact players like Hughes.

 

We also have to sign Virtanen, Markstrom, Gaudette and Tanev next off-season and as it stands we don't have enough to sign all 4 so moving a Sutter, Baer, Benn would be necessary. They would be a lot easier to move with 1 year left. We will also probably let go of Stecher since his qualifying offer is gonna be too much. Worst case scenario we move Pearson or let go of Tanev which makes us a worse team. 

 

We kind of need someone on an ELC to step up next year. We're a little handcuffed till Eriksson/Luongo are gone though we maybe capable of moving some guys out like I said.

 

As bad as it sounds Loui could just retire too. It would solve a lot of problems.

THis is exactly why I suggest we start bringing up some of these kids...…..other wise we are handing out jobs next year to these very rookies with out any game experience

[Junkyard Dog]

4 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

THis is exactly why I suggest we start bringing up some of these kids...…..other wise we are handing out jobs next year to these very rookies with out any game experience

You missed my entire first part and a key part to the first post you replied to. 
 

We’re trying to make the playoffs. Playing rookies is not smart at all. It’s not gonna help us in that regard at all. If we are out of it and/or have a bunch of injuries then sure. 
 

So as it stands now they aren’t gonna get time since we are healthy and in the hunt. 
 

I don’t know how you could of missed that. I was very clear in saying that.

[J.I.A.H.N]

3 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

You missed my entire first part and a key part to the first post you replied to. 
 

We’re trying to make the playoffs. Playing rookies is not smart at all. It’s not gonna help us in that regard at all. If we are out of it and/or have a bunch of injuries then sure. 
 

So as it stands now they aren’t gonna get time since we are healthy and in the hunt. 
 

I don’t know how you could of missed that. I was very clear in saying that.

I get what you are saying...…...

 

But, I think people value the 3rd paring and 4th line almost too much. Like I had said earlier, there are only 3 or 4 prospects I want up for 1 or 2 game each. I can't honestly think of why inserting a young player in, in 1 our every 4 or 5 games is such a problem. Considering, some of the vets are not getting 10 minutes a night.....it really isn't a lot to expect, and you need to get them in, so the player knows where he is at and how much more he has to grow or work.

 

This much like Podkolzin to a lesser degree. Hey, if he is in for one game and craps the bed, then you discuss with him, then send him back down to work on his problem.

 

I was a Midget head coach and we brought in 1st year Bantam Rep kids in to have game experience all the time. (Those that had earned the look) It is part of a maturing process.

It makes them better in the long run, and gives the coaches a better understanding, as to what to expect when they come up full time. Keep in mind that 2nd year Bantams and 1st year midgets if good, are invited to junior camps, and sometimes call ups. They don't see a lot of time, but I have never seen a player be destroyed by it.

 

IMO, we are still a developing team, and not where we will be in 3 years, so this is the time to do those types of things, not when you are in the middle of a solid playoff run and looking for healthy bodies and none have had any NHL game experience. 

 

In saying that, you still have to put the player in a position to succeed...…….

 

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by janisahockeynut

[Junkyard Dog]

Just now, janisahockeynut said:

I get what you are saying...…...

 

But, I think people value the 3rd paring and 4th line almost too much. Like I had said earlier, there are only 3 or 4 prospects I want up for 1 or 2 game each. I can't honestly think of why inserting a young player in, in 1 our every 4 or 5 games is such a problem. Considering, some of the vets are not getting 10 minutes a night.....it really isn't a lot to expect, and you need to get them in, so the player knows where he is at and how much more he has to grow or work.

 

This much like Podkolzin to a lesser degree. Hey, if he is in for one game and craps the bed, then you discuss with him, then send him back down to work on his problem.

 

I was a head coach and we brought in 1st year Bantam Rep kids in to have game experience all the time. (Those that had earned the look) It is part of a maturing process.

It makes them better in the long run, and gives the coaches a better understanding, as to what to expect when they come up full time. Keep in mind that 2nd year Bantams and 1st year midgets if good, are invited to junior camps, and sometimes call ups. They don't see a lot of time, but I have never seen a player be destroyed by it.

 

IMO, we are still a developing team, and not where we will be in 3 years, so this is the time to do those types of things, not when you are in the middle of a solid playoff run and looking for healthy bodies and none have had any NHL game experience. 

 

In saying that, you still have to put the player in a position to succeed...…….

Yeah for sure. I would like to see some of these guys up here for a bit too!

 

It is definitely a tough spot. You want to get these young guys some experience but you're also trying to win games to make the playoffs. I get what you're saying too but I think the Canucks believe that this year they actually have a real shot at making the playoffs more than prior years.

 

Things is do you think they would get much ice-time if we're trying to win games? Most coaches would bench them for players who they know are more reliable. We've seen it a lot with Virtanen already before this season and back then we were a lot more of a developing team. We already have a full roster now with Ferland and Sutter out and they are not too far off. That's why I see us trading a few guys in the off-season, we've got too many already and are gonna need cap. So the young guys in the system are gonna get a shot.

 

It's an ever-changing process. If we lose a bunch of people and/or go on a huge losing streak that takes us out of the picture these young guys should and probably will get the experience that would help their development. Gaudette got a whole a lot of time last year when Sutter was out and it looks to be paying dividends for him this season.

 

That said you can be happy knowing that they are having a lot of success with Utica and may actually go on a deep playoff run there. They have that capability when they've got a full roster. That definitely wouldn't hinder them at all.