Burrows? Do We Really Need Him?

[aGENT]

Just now, smokes said:

Gotta play for it, I am thinking long term as well, The thing is that Vey does not look like a future anything right now, didn't work out as a King and invisible in most games as a Canucks. Dorsett does not have the virsitility Burrows has and now with Tryamkin, Pedan, and Virtanen in the line up, Dorsett's grit is not as important as last year. Kenins, and Grenier haven't been called up most of the year even when the Canucks went through an injury riddled season so it tells you how much of thiese guys the brass actually think of them.  

As for McCann and Gaunce, these two players have a better potential to get us a return that can help the team right away than a 35 year old vet with a 4.5 million dollar cap hit. So McCann and Gaunce make for better barganing chips at the trade trable. If not traded McCann needs a yeat in Utica for better developement. 

Still no room....

[smokes]

1 minute ago, J.R. said:

Still no room....

Others would leave befor Burrows. All I'm saying, Burrows was far from being the worst on the ice this season. 

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, smokes said:

Others would leave befor Burrows. All I'm saying, Burrows was far from being the worst on the ice this season. 

Dorsett plays a different role and isn't going anywhere. They're not competing for a spot.

 

I agree Vey could be moved/let walk.

 

They'll likely try to waive one of Grenier/Zalewski depending on who has a worse camp (my Guess is Grenier). Zalewski likely as 13th forward IMO.

 

Kenins may walk/have his rights traded.

 

McCann and Gaunce could/should both start the year in Utica. 

 

That's still 13 guys without including Burr and before signing any UFA, Boesser or potentially this years 1st rounder. We add any of those guys and it's not just Burr who will be on the move...

Edited April 11, 2016 by J.R.

[Gurn]

Etem, Kenins, Zalewski and Grenier, are all behind Burrows, and unlikely to be better than Burrows in the future, imo

McCaan needs a year in Ahl to get stronger

 

If you keep Burrows you don't need a UFA,

 

It is not that hard to see Burrows here next year- or that hard to see him go.  JB cannot win or lose this decision.

[aGENT]

10 minutes ago, gurn said:

Etem, Kenins, Zalewski and Grenier, are all behind Burrows, and unlikely to be better than Burrows in the future, imo

McCaan needs a year in Ahl to get stronger

 

If you keep Burrows you don't need a UFA,

 

It is not that hard to see Burrows here next year- or that hard to see him go.  JB cannot win or lose this decision.

Burrows likely retires (or signs elsewhere) after next year. So losing Etem/Kenins/Grenier/Zalewski to keep him, makes no sense. And at least a couple are quite likely to be better players than a 36+ year old Burr.

 

There's no space. See above.

 

And yes we do 'need' a UFA. Ideally Okposo.

[Gurn]

Burrow is currently better than Greztky though. Can you please identify which player in the following will out score and out check and out penalty kill Burrows over their career?

Zalewski, Etem, Kenins, Grenier Vey, McCaan, Gaunce

 

I'd say only McCaan has a shot, after a year in the AHL.  And Gaunce maybe an excellent 4th line center/winger but I'm not too worried about losing 4th line players and most of the Canuck extras are just that.

 

Stay or go, it is a close decision, with no wrong decision. imo

[hammertime]

57 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I love Burrows. I wish we had the roster space to keep him around to mentor/for leadership.

 

Honestly the ideal thing to do (so long as Burr's on board) is to waive him, have him mentor kids in Utica/be available for injuries, have him retire and offer him a coaching gig.

 

Preferably we call him up for the last couple home games so he can retire as a Canuck and put him in the ring of honour.

This

[Spotted Zebra]

22 minutes ago, gurn said:

Etem, Kenins, Zalewski and Grenier, are all behind Burrows, and unlikely to be better than Burrows in the future, imo

McCaan needs a year in Ahl to get stronger

 

If you keep Burrows you don't need a UFA,

 

It is not that hard to see Burrows here next year- or that hard to see him go.  JB cannot win or lose this decision.

Burrows is not going to be getting better in the coming years, that's how the body works, he struggled this year and there's no guarantee he bounces back. if he stays here it'll be as the 13th forward which is why it's hard to justify 

[Spotted Zebra]

1 minute ago, gurn said:

Burrow is currently better than Greztky though. Can you please identify which player in the following will out score and out check and out penalty kill Burrows over their career?

Zalewski, Etem, Kenins, Grenier Vey, McCaan, Gaunce

 

I'd say only McCaan has a shot, after a year in the AHL.  And Gaunce maybe an excellent 4th line center/winger but I'm not too worried about losing 4th line players and most of the Canuck extras are just that.

 

Stay or go, it is a close decision, with no wrong decision. imo

Why are you bothering to compare what someone did 5 years ago to what they'll do next year?

 

Etem will probably never be as good as Burrows, I'd be willing to bet he out produces him next year, which is what matters isn't it? Im just curious 

[\/ijay]

I think capwise its pointless to buy out Burrows. We aren't going to up against the cap next year and buying him out would add to our cap the year after. Roster space might be limited but having him would add competition and give some security in the case of injuries. 

 

Only reason to buy him out would be as a favor to him so he can get more ice time elsewhere.

[aGENT]

8 minutes ago, gurn said:

Burrow is currently better than Greztky though. Can you please identify which player in the following will out score and out check and out penalty kill Burrows over their career?

Zalewski, Etem, Kenins, Grenier Vey, McCaan, Gaunce

 

I'd say only McCaan has a shot, after a year in the AHL.  And Gaunce maybe an excellent 4th line center/winger but I'm not too worried about losing 4th line players and most of the Canuck extras are just that.

 

Stay or go, it is a close decision, with no wrong decision. imo

We're not talking about career numbers. We're talking about a 35/36 year old Burrows. 

[Gurn]

There is no guarantee anybody bounces back. And yes people age and slow down. With Hamhuis most likely gone, the team will need to keep veteran leaders around- Burrows can fit that role. If the Canucks draft a high scoring winger, then maybe Alex is gone, but it is truly hard to make a wrong decision here.

 

[Boudrias]

23 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

Does a dog need a walk?

Do flowers need water?

Do shoes need soles?

 

Do we ever wonder who'll dig pucks out of the net?  High five the team with pure jubilation at a win and with encouragement at a tough loss?  Speak so eloquently in the face of a camera, even if it involves turds?  Do whatever is asked of him, without a grumble?  Show a true team spirit and embodying that at all times?  Stand, selflessly, in front of a net so others can feel the glory of a goal, even if it means he'll get chopped like a tree in the wake of an axe in doing so?  Be able to bat a puck out of the air on the fly and make it look like magic?  Speak from the heart, even if it involves a league that forbids it?  Love the game, so wholeheartedly?

 

Mighty big skates to fill and this town of some what have you done for me lately's would get rid of their mother at the first sign of lumpy gravy.  Give it a chance to smooth out.  I don't buy that "mature" players are all washed up.  Most? - sure.  But there are exceptions to the rule and there are contributions that aren't always obvious or flash and dash.  There are ups and downs, even young players go through them.  But, when push comes to shove I want all in guys like Burr.  Hansen, Hamhuis, Dorsett on my team.  I want the Sedins leading the charge.  I want their wing man with them.

 

We have something in the thinking that "younger is faster" and that exciting hockey comes by way of that.  I don't deny it - we've already seen a trend that turns the clock back a bit.  Five years ago isn't a long time and we saw a team that was one to beat.  Sure, stuff happens and the mental aspect likely tore that to shreds.  But these guys are a short jaunt away from that...not miles (I don't mean as a team...I am speaking on an individual basis).  We grasp onto the first chance to do a 'AHA, TOLD YOU SO" around here.  But it isn't cut and dry - it isn't a matter of "they're older and have to go".   There's been a slowdown and, at times, struggles.  But there are a lot of building blocks that are part of the foundation of something fairly solid/good.  Do you just rip it all out and hope you replace it with something similar/better?  Or build FROM/around it to some degree?  This year was a huge transitional step.  And, there will be more...but the young guys clearly still need to sit shoulder to shoulder with some experience.

 

Because we've also had a glimpse (through teams, including our own) that hints that sometimes the young guys need direction and leadership.  Mentoring and inspiration.  That you don't insert nothing but youth and get an instant winning formula.  So it's important to work it in, not to force it.

 

Fire away, tanks (ftr, I was on board for the final surge to win via losing...just couldn't "cheer" for it, but knew it was the right thing overall).  Just don't think that people who glom on to an idea that that (idea) will automatically, without a doubt, translate into a done deal understand that it's just not that easy.  And that seasoned vets are a necessary ingredient in most cases as a team works toward something new and improved.  They buy into a shiny new toy thing and want to throw out all the old stuff.  Some of it has value.  It's become fashionable to slam everything about the former team and the players from the past, some of whom remain.  Logic says it wasn't all that bad.  Or, long ago.

 

If Burr is gone, so is a piece of my heart.  A piece of the team's heart.  Say it isn't so.

 

This will be followed by an emotionally charged comment when that time comes.  I ain't ready for it yet. 

 

You don't know what you've got till it's gone.  

 

Don't care...my opinion is all I have and right or wrong, it's mine. 

I was a tanker Deb and at no time to I advocate trading all the vets to achieve a high pick. Many like me on here.

 

I have been a fan of Alex Burrows since he came up from Manitoba so many years ago. He and Kesler added something to the roster mix that the Twins could not.  A in your face push back to all those teams who saw Van as a easy win. Those were pretty dark days and I would suggest more so than this past season. Burrows had a persona that win CUPs.

 

A month ago I was posting about which vets would stay and I suggested that Alex might be gone because of a necessary choice between him and Dorsett. Both contribute a lot to the team but because of age, speed, toughness and scoring Dorsett would get the edge. I still think that. My hope is that Alex gets picked up by a CUP contender next year and gets his shot. He won't get it playing out his career in Van. A buyout reduces his cost and makes him affordable.  The Twins, Sutter, Hanson and Dorsett are the vets I see going forward combined with apossible UFA signing. 

[Gurn]

58 minutes ago, Spotted Zebra said:

Why are you bothering to compare what someone did 5 years ago to what they'll do next year?

 

Etem will probably never be as good as Burrows, I'd be willing to bet he out produces him next year, which is what matters isn't it? Im just curious

Etem has never outscored what Burrows did this year. He may out score him next year, will he out check him at the same time, as well as kill penalties?

 

In 2 years Etem, Vey, Zalewski, Kenins( Out of this bunch I'd hold out the most hope for Etem)   may be  better players than Burrows in that year, but for next year I'd go Burrows.

 

I'm not going to be worried either way, I can see both sides of the coin and for me they are dang near equal options.

[gameburn]

2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

I was a tanker Deb and at no time to I advocate trading all the vets to achieve a high pick. Many like me on here.

 

I have been a fan of Alex Burrows since he came up from Manitoba so many years ago. He and Kesler added something to the roster mix that the Twins could not.  A in your face push back to all those teams who saw Van as a easy win. Those were pretty dark days and I would suggest more so than this past season. Burrows had a persona that win CUPs.

 

A month ago I was posting about which vets would stay and I suggested that Alex might be gone because of a necessary choice between him and Dorsett. Both contribute a lot to the team but because of age, speed, toughness and scoring Dorsett would get the edge. I still think that. My hope is that Alex gets picked up by a CUP contender next year and gets his shot. He won't get it playing out his career in Van. A buyout reduces his cost and makes him affordable.  The Twins, Sutter, Hanson and Dorsett are the vets I see going forward combined with apossible UFA signing. 

A lot depends on whether we draft one of the top 4 or 5 forwards or go with a D.  Even more important is the likely signing of a UFA winger (Okposo?  Lucic?) -- ideally, less than 30yrs of age, 3yr contract.  If BOTH of these occur and both are wingers -- lol -- we have a serious logjam.   I almost think we'd be wise to avoid signing a UFA, and do another tank run. Finish 4 to 10 points higher than this year and develop some youth, certainly no panic if we are drafting in the 7 to 14 range next summer.  I'm hoping for Puljujarvi this year -- his highlights are fantastic -- can shoot, pass, works his buns off. 

 

Dorsett is looking out of place on next year's team and probably unnecessary with so much on the verge of happening.  Hansen is good with the twins -- and his work ethic is fantastic -- but along with Dorsett should probably be moved for picks/youth.  If we land one of the top 3 picks, everything changes real quick.  Realistically though, both Hansen and Dorsett start next Fall. 

 

Sedin-Sedin-Hansen*

[Okposo/Erikson or Puljujarvi]-Sutter-Virtanen

Baertschi-Horvat-Rodin

Dorsett- Gaunce- Etem

Zalewski or Granlund 13th?

 

* Bolded players are locks for next year.

 

I just don't see room for Burrows if an elite forward is drafted, or if a quality UFA is signed.  Actually, looking at the list above, I don't see room for Burrows even if we draft a D in the first round and do not pick up a UFA forward.  Do we really want to give up Zalewski or Granlund or even BOTH in order to keep Burrows?  Also, what if Kenins or Grenier get their game back?  We are awash in bottom 6 forwards.  (Trader Jim could, however, move 4 or 5 of the players on the above list, which would change things.)

 

Conclusion?:  Good-bye to Vey, and probably Kenins and Grenier as well as one of Zelewski or Granlund.  If no UFA is signed, we might keep Kenins or Grenier or both, surely Zalewski would be kept.  On the other hand, Rodin and Zalewski are still unproven, and the Draft pick could be Chychrun/Juolevi/Sergachev, so things are very uncertain. 

 

I will say this though: If we draft either of the Finns it will be like Edmonton getting McDavid last summer: some things will change immediately: players will be moved and  some of the smaller coaching roles will adjusted.    

 

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by gameburn

[Stierlitz]

Vancouver Canucks ‏@VanCanucks 3h3 hours ago

Burrows spoke with Linden and Benning this morning. He said as of now he's with the #Canucks, so it's about getting ready for next season.

[SamJamIam]

24 minutes ago, Stierlitz said:

Vancouver Canucks ‏@VanCanucks 3h3 hours ago

Burrows spoke with Linden and Benning this morning. He said as of now he's with the #Canucks, so it's about getting ready for next season.

We don't have cap problems with so many ELCs, even with signing an Okposo-type ELC (which I hope to God we do).  I don't know why we'd let Burr walk when we could trade Dorsett for a pick.  Burr is a way better guy to have in the lower lines.  Let Pedan and Tram take the odd fight although few are going to want to square up with either.

[Nucksfansince91]

With a young core group going into next season I don't understand why you wouldn't want someone to play out the last year of a contract/resign cheaper that is a great presence in the locker room, bleeds the team, and gives 100%. Linden and the rest of the staff just need to set expectations very clear with Burrows to understand his role as a vet and his impact on the young players. Your development in the league has a lot to do with the players you are surrounded by.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

3 hours ago, Spotted Zebra said:

Why are you bothering to compare what someone did 5 years ago to what they'll do next year?

 

Etem will probably never be as good as Burrows, I'd be willing to bet he out produces him next year, which is what matters isn't it? Im just curious 

Yep, if we really break it down, Since becoming a canucks Etem has 7 goals 12 points in 39 games and him and Horvat showed some chemistry at the end.  Burrows this year put up 9 goals and 22 points in 79 games. So technically, since becoming a canuck Etem has already out produced Burrows.  Add in that Etem is only 23 and likely going to improve on those numbers.  It's really hard to justify keeping a player who's 35 years old, play has been decreasing year after year and only got one year on his contract at the expense of a young player who's very well able to provide this team with 5+ years of play. 

 

 

[DonaldBrashear]

Burrows will go down in history as one of the heart guys of this franchise. Like Gino Odjick or Cliff Ronning or Ed Jovanovski. Class act guy. Class act, don't care what anyone says.