[Report] Canucks MIGHT retire Pavel Bure's #10

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

Looks like CDC is back to their old selves typical. Someone sees a topic bumped about Bure's number being retired notices no one else posts in it, so they decide to make their own topic to get their questioned answered, nice work! Maybe I should just start a new topic as well and ask the same question as this topic! Will it be deleted or not? I guess there is only one way to find out.

[viking mama]

I guess we need to retire #21 (for Neely) and #11 (for Messier)? Both are former Canucks in the HHoF.

[Twilight Sparkle]

i recall making a thread about this, like 5 years ago, and suggesting a hall of fame, and i was trolled to the fiery pits of hell

[Nuxfanabroad]

You're totally kidding - right? The Messier years in Vancouver were the "Dark Ages". How that weasel ever thought he could supplant Linden as the true Captain of this team...is beyond me? How he/Keenan/absentee-owner John McCaw...ever thought the room would follow anyone who would dishonorably goon Linden while he was on all 4's... breakin' Trevors' nose as the game-ending siren sounded...is beyond me too! Messier hoped to put Linden outta game 7 & knew others risked suspensions if they retaliated. But - Messier was pretty CONFIDENT that nothin' would happen to him. NOT a peep about it in the eastern media reports post-game either. He had full-backed by the power-brokers. Our valiant captain stormed back & he scored 2 goals in the final game...& despite the lop-sided officiating - gave the league's fore-ordination plans a scare. What an INSULTING notion it was - bringing that villain to play in this market - so soon after that! Only an "ABSENTEE" owner with TOTAL disconnect to this city - would even dream of it. A complete gong show! Messier in the rafters ...NEVER in VanCity...& not in the ring of honour either. The time he & his inflated ego spent....& did NOT spend....in our fair city....was ALL pretty shame-filled.

[lowest common denominator]

BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE BURE

[Baggins]

Bure's NHL HHOF career spanned from 1991 to 2003

Naslund's NHL career spanned from 1993 to 2009

[snucks]

Commitment to franchise:

Naslund 884 games (5th all-time)

Bure 428 games (31st all time)

That's the difference. Bieksa has already played more game for this franchise than Bure.

[Baggins]

And BTW Baggins, this is the point I would like to hear your response too.

/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=11008173">scottiecanuck, on 08 December 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

You don't retire a number for what could have been, you do it for what actually was.

What it actually was was a hhof career, elite play for his entire time in the NHL, helped to save the franchise, brought a whole new generation of canuck fans and hockey fans in general. Too bad he only played 500- games, kinda like Orr#4.

[DeNiro]

That's my opinion.

[Baggins]

You're totally kidding - right? The Messier years in Vancouver were the "Dark Ages". How that weasel ever thought he could supplant Linden as the true Captain of this team...is beyond me? How he/Keenan/absentee-owner John McCaw...ever thought the room would follow anyone who would dishonorably goon Linden while he was on all 4's... breakin' Trevors' nose as the game-ending siren sounded...is beyond me too! Messier hoped to put Linden outta game 7 & knew others risked suspensions if they retaliated. But - Messier was pretty CONFIDENT that nothin' would happen to him. NOT a peep about it in the eastern media reports post-game either. He had full-backed by the power-brokers. Our valiant captain stormed back & he scored 2 goals in the final game...& despite the lop-sided officiating - gave the league's fore-ordination plans a scare. What an INSULTING notion it was - bringing that villain to play in this market - so soon after that! Only an "ABSENTEE" owner with TOTAL disconnect to this city - would even dream of it. A complete gong show! Messier in the rafters ...NEVER in VanCity...& not in the ring of honour either. The time he & his inflated ego spent....& did NOT spend....in our fair city....was ALL pretty shame-filled.

[Baggins]

[Smashian Kassian]

Gladly. Although most of it has already been covered repeatedly.

1 - Number retirement and HHoF are two distinctly different honors. The former relates to the players relationship and accomplishments with a franchise while the latter encompasses a players entire career. One does not automatically mean the other.

2 - Attendance went down during Bures time here, not up. How does that translate into saving the franchise? As a matter of fact the the attendance went up after Linden and Maclean joined the team which was prior to Bures arrival. I've already posted the attendance numbers which clearly show this.

3 - Naslund brought a new generation of fans to the team. Every player has their fans. Stars simply attract more new fans than others. I don't see that a reason to retire a number.

4 - In my mind Bure doesn't even belong in the same sentence with Orr. Bobby Orr changed the way the game was played. The only real comparison is they both won the Calder Trophy and had shortened careers due to knee injuries. After that it moves drastically in Orrs favor.....

First all-star team 8 times.

8 Norris trophies

2 Art Ross trophies

6 time league +/- leader (still an NHL record)

3 Hart trophies

2 Conne Smythe trophies

1 Lester B. Pearson trophy

1 Lester Patrick trophy

2 Stanley Cups (scoring the cup winning goal both times)

Some standing NHL Records:

Most points in one NHL season by a defenseman (139; 1970–71)

Most assists in one NHL season by a defenseman (102; 1970–71)

Highest plus/minus in one NHL season (+124; 1970–71)

Only player in history to win four major NHL awards in one season (Hart, Norris, Art Ross, and Conn Smythe in 1970)

Only defenseman to win the scoring title

Only player to win both the Norris and Art Ross in the same season more than once

I won't bother listing the multitude of records he held when he retired or individual game records.

5 - Orr played 657 NHL games (631 with Boston). Scottie should try to get something right when referencing a legend. In addition he played 74 playoff games (all with Boston).

Will that suffice Smashian? Would you care to list Bure's vast NHL accomplishments in comparison to Orr? You know, "what actually was". Orr may have had a shortened career, but it was jam packed with accomplishments.

Some of you try to make Bure out to be more than he was. He was a very talented goal scorer whose speed made him exciting to watch. I don't see exciting as a reason to retire a players number. Nor do I see talent alone as a reason enough for a franchise retire a number. There needs to be more to it relating to the franchise itself. Games played for the franchise and accomplishments with the franchise should be large factors. And yes, even community involvement as a lesser factor but a factor nonetheless. The most glaring shortcoming for Bure is games played. Nor is the accomplishment column chocked full (See Orr above). Community is just big void. Take the Bure fan glasses off and put the three together and despite his talent, there really isn't much there to warrant a teams highest honor. His career is deserving of the HHoF and I've maintained that for years. But there aren't enough check marks with this franchise for a number retirement. If he had a multitude of NHL records or NHL awards like Orr did with Boston during his time as a Canuck you could certainly make a real case for ignoring the 428 games played. But he doesn't even have a tiny fraction of that countermeasure that Orr had.

He belongs in the ring of honor because he was a great player. But number retirement should be for great Canucks. I just don't see him as a great Canuck.

That's my opinion.

[Nicklasjensen46]

I could only hope! Him and markus my two all time favorite Canucks...

[Kass9]

His number is definitely getting retired.

Aquilini is probably making him partake in all these events to make fans love him again (he does deserve the recognition)

Before yesterday, did we even know where Bure was?

[TimberWolf]

You're totally kidding - right? The Messier years in Vancouver were the "Dark Ages". How that weasel ever thought he could supplant Linden as the true Captain of this team...is beyond me? How he/Keenan/absentee-owner John McCaw...ever thought the room would follow anyone who would dishonorably goon Linden while he was on all 4's... breakin' Trevors' nose as the game-ending siren sounded...is beyond me too! Messier hoped to put Linden outta game 7 & knew others risked suspensions if they retaliated. But - Messier was pretty CONFIDENT that nothin' would happen to him. NOT a peep about it in the eastern media reports post-game either. He had full-backed by the power-brokers. Our valiant captain stormed back & he scored 2 goals in the final game...& despite the lop-sided officiating - gave the league's fore-ordination plans a scare. What an INSULTING notion it was - bringing that villain to play in this market - so soon after that! Only an "ABSENTEE" owner with TOTAL disconnect to this city - would even dream of it. A complete gong show! Messier in the rafters ...NEVER in VanCity...& not in the ring of honour either. The time he & his inflated ego spent....& did NOT spend....in our fair city....was ALL pretty shame-filled.

[viking mama]

Your mad at his lack of community service? Why does that matter? What if he was shy? Or not a people person. Or crazy vancity fans would leave him alone?

[viking mama]

He wasn't campaigning to retire Messiers number. He was pointing out that HHOF doesn't make it mandatory for us to do so or we would have Sundin up there as well for example. Numbers getting retired are based off of a bond with a team, not personal achievements the entire league recognizes. Hence why it would be ridiculous to have Messiers up there.

If this was a "why I hate Messier thread" it would be very well said. Unfortunately it was a retaliation to an argument that was not made, so not very well said at all.

[frazzY]

Might?