Canucks Curse Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 This is pretty much how I see things except that I think Horvat is quite likely to be better than just an "OK" 2C. I think his top end is as a very good 2C. HF has the top Canuck prospects as Virtanen, McCann, Demko and Cassels in that order, but you might be right that Cassels is actually the best prospect. It is great that Cassels has done so well, but no third rounder at this stage is likely to be projected as a potential star. And I think the truth is that the Canucks do not really high end prospects in the system. Cassels, Virtanen, McCann, and Baertschi are all good but, based on their development so far, look like middle 6 forwards. Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Jensen and Grenier are all possibilities to help the team but there is no guarantee they will even become NHL regulars. It would be nice to have a Reinhart or Ehlers or Bennett or Nylander in the system -- someone who looks like a genuine first liner to take over from the Sedins down the road. That is one reason it would be nice a high pick this year. Anything in the top 10 should yield a very good prospect. I agree, we have all the intangibles and toughness and heaviness in our young njl players and prospects, we are missing the 1C and 1D so all of our veteran and exacess assets should be geared towRds getting those. A future 1C and maybe 1D can be had in this top 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 This is a Cole Cassels thread anyway so why are you talking about Kassian? Butthurt he missed out on the Kassian circle-jerk threads with LolClarkson, LaBamba, NuckNit, Elfstroker, and friends. Remember back then, in their obsession they tried to bring him up in every thread. If you add the Canucks prospect pool to the mix, we already have a guy who will likely be a tweener in Horvat (great 3C and maybe an OK 2C). At his upper end Cassels could reach that spot too. We do not have many top end skill players in the system and are very soon going to be in need of them. Aside from Henrik, what other C was better than him by the end of the season... his rookie year, that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Fred65 Sbisa. Did you listen to Benning's comments after the signing? He said it was all about insurance. He gave him a 3 year term to assure that they would have a physical presence on the blue line after Bieksa and Hamhuis' contracts come up at the end of next year when they are UFA's. In the meantime, there is plenty of time to help out the team on the back end. Pedan is a physical presence but is likely to be a bottom pairing guy. Other than that, they need help because all the new guys project from fair to middling imo. Drafting D will take a number of years, so I think that Benning will be trading for D or picking up a UFA. Sbisa is another interim player who can fill a role until a more permanent solution can be found. When Benning talks, he says what he thinks. He doesn't tell all though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 ? wut I meant" Him and Virtanen". I am an idiot though so pay no mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Fred65 Sbisa. Did you listen to Benning's comments after the signing? He said it was all about insurance. He gave him a 3 year term to assure that they would have a physical presence on the blue line after Bieksa and Hamhuis' contracts come up at the end of next year when they are UFA's. Look man insurance is good and all but you could go with some sketchy no name brand insurance like sbisa or you could save some money and switch to geico, which would have been any of the cheap 5/6 dmen around the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenBae Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Seasoned eye Benning thinks sbisa is good and gave him an overpaid contract. I no longer trust Benning's eye for talent. Don't think you understand how the market for defense in the NHL currently is at the moment. $3.6 million for a developing, high energy, two-way dman isn't the worst contract, especially since the only way you are going to get good value on dman contracts these days are if you take risks on players with potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 The valid complaint is the knock-on effect it'll have as a comparable for other skaters we need to sign. Sbisa signing is like Miller's, a mill north of reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 FireGillis Ok, but Sbisa isn't Joe Schmuklak. He was picked 19th overall in 2008 so has a little pedigree. Somebody gave him a 2.9 Mil contract which was based on his play. He is alright. He is an interim fill in as I have said. Would you rather cut him loose in favour of Stanton for example. I'm still willing to give Benning more rope than the *Impatient ones* are giving him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Don't think you understand how the market for defense in the NHL currently is at the moment. $3.6 million for a developing, high energy, two-way dman isn't the worst contract, especially since the only way you are going to get good value on dman contracts these days are if you take risks on players with potential. Nah, I think it's you who doesn't understand how the market for defense works. Sbisa is a 5/6 dman in quality at best. You don't pay 3.6m for that. He's an andrew alberts quality dman. Crabcakes, on 17 May 2015 - 8:51 PM, said: FireGillis Ok, but Sbisa isn't Joe Schmuklak. He was picked 19th overall in 2008 so has a little pedigree. Somebody gave him a 2.9 Mil contract which was based on his play. He is alright. He is an interim fill in as I have said. Would you rather cut him loose in favour of Stanton for example. I'm still willing to give Benning more rope than the *Impatient ones* are giving him. Where he was drafted doesn't mean anything at this point in his career. Bobby Sanguinetti was a 1st rounder drafted 21st overall and he didn't even get a sniff with our team this year. Zach Hamill was an 8th overall pick, but wasn't good enough for us last year either. It's been long enough now where you can say Sbisa wasn't first round draft quality. Ducks fans couldn't wait to get rid of him because he was so bad. They were correct as he's proven to be bad on the canucks too. I would have just tried to qualify him or let him walk. He's easily replaceable as depth dmen like him are a dime a dozen in ufa or trade. Benning only locked him up to make the kesler deal look better so he could say sbisa was a big piece of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Curse Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 i just did a quick look at players who have actually been drafted in the #8 spot all the way back to magic draft 2003. Eighth overall sure sounds sexy, like there's no way that player won't be an automatic stud forever. To be honest, with Cole doing what he's doing right now and over the past couple of seasons...there aren't TOO many of those 8th overallers I would trade him for straight up right now. This! Told you soooooo all u ppl who wanted to package him for 8th OA!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 This! Told you soooooo all u ppl who wanted to package him for 8th OA!! G0 back to NHL 15, you're delusional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Well I will say the list of 8th overall pick doesn't look too sexy. You really need top 3-5 picks for more of a chance at a superstar. http://www.mynhldraft.com/nhl-draft-picks/8th-overall/80509/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenBae Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Nah, I think it's you who doesn't understand how the market for defense works. Sbisa is a 5/6 dman in quality at best. You don't pay 3.6m for that. He's an andrew alberts quality dman. Doubt any young dman with experience playing in the NHL signs for less than $3 million these days. Still waiting for you to make a comparison to Victor Hedman and telling me that contract is sustainable in this market. And your assessment of Sbisa is pretty poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 And your assessment of Sbisa is pretty poor.You just have homer glasses on. The eye test and analytics test all show that sbisa is bad and a liability on the ice. I don't understand your hedman comparison. He's a stud dman on a sweet heart contract with a cap hit of 4m. Of course that contract is sustainable. It's 400k more than sbisa is making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riley57 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Cassels is a great prospect, I think he'll turn into a tenacious 3rd liner that can probably sometimes shift into a 2nd line role ala Higgins, but to say that you wouldn't trade him for a top 10 pick in this draft or any other draft is ludicrous. If I were Jim Benning and someone gave that deal to me I'd accept before they changed their mind. In fact, if someone offered me a top 20 pick for Cole Cassels I'd probably take it. Sure, you take the risk of drafting a bust but you have to consider this; you have a chance at a much more high-end prospect in the long run. Look at it this way; would you have drafted him top-20 last draft? You can't be serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenBae Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 You just have homer glasses on. The eye test and analytics test all show that sbisa is bad and a liability on the ice. I don't understand your hedman comparison. He's a stud dman on a sweet heart contract with a cap hit of 4m. Of course that contract is sustainable. It's 400k more than sbisa is making. If his contract ended after this season he would probably be resigned for $7 million plus, was the point I was making. That's how desirable quality dmen are at this moment. Once again, two way dman take the longest to develop, what I have seen from Sbisa this season in terms of mistakes, seem to be correctable, something such as poor first pass decision making and lack of mobility in his own zone can be fixed. Also have seen some valuable intangibles such as aggressiveness and physicality on both the puck and the opposing team. Furthermore, I don't think Sbisa was good this season either, did his pairing do him any favours? Doesn't excuse his performance, but I think it's too early to give up on his development, especially when the pantry isn't bursting with readily available talent for the moment. Worth the risk imo, and seems like a very rational decision by Benning, someone who is likely more qualified to assess the potential of players than either of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalCanuckFan Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 If his contract ended after this season he would probably be resigned for $7 million plus, was the point I was making. That's how desirable quality dmen are at this moment. Once again, two way dman take the longest to develop, what I have seen from Sbisa this season in terms of mistakes, seem to be correctable, something such as poor first pass decision making and lack of mobility in his own zone can be fixed. Also have seen some valuable intangibles such as aggressiveness and physicality on both the puck and the opposing team. Furthermore, I don't think Sbisa was good this season either, did his pairing do him any favours? Doesn't excuse his performance, but I think it's too early to give up on his development, especially when the pantry isn't bursting with readily available talent for the moment. Worth the risk imo, and seems like a very rational decision by Benning, someone who is likely more qualified to assess the potential of players than either of us. I agree that Sbisa's mistakes seem to be correctable and, in fact, in the latter half of the season, it appeared that he was starting to make fewer mistakes. There were positive signs but he hardly had an amazing season. What was distressing in the playoffs was that he seemed to go back to making bad decisions in pressure situations although how much of that arose from being paired with Bieksa is uncertain. The main thing about Sbisa's contract is that it seemed bizarre to give him a significant raise and term, even if he seemed to be have turned a corner. I would have liked the Canucks to bring him back on a 1-year deal - he was set to be a RFA after all and would presumably have little leverage. I get that they might have wanted to buy a few of his UFA years but his contract doesn't seem commensurate with how he performed this past season (not even including the playoffs). Whatever the case is, the Canucks are stuck with his contract and I do hope he improves next season based on potential alone. It's easy to forget that he was rushed into the NHL with the Flyers at 18 so his development may have been setback by that. On the flip side, he has had 7 years to figure things out so hopefully year 8 will see him turn the tide. Anyway, this is Cole Cassels talk so all I will say is I am interested to see him at training camp. The Canucks didn't get a chance to see him at training camp last year so he may really surprise this fall. I don't think anyone anticipated his rise in production or his impact with his team. I'm not getting my hopes to high for him but it looks like he at least has the fire and mindset to have a good shot at the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 i just did a quick look at players who have actually been drafted in the #8 spot all the way back to magic draft 2003. Eighth overall sure sounds sexy, like there's no way that player won't be an automatic stud forever. To be honest, with Cole doing what he's doing right now and over the past couple of seasons...there aren't TOO many of those 8th overallers I would trade him for straight up right now. We need a dman and the only way to get a stud D is to draft one high or get really lucky i.e edler. I'd do Cassels for 8th overall straight up. Cassels looks like he will be an elite third liner but a top 1-2 Dman is more value able. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggs50 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 We finally have some good prospects and you guys want to trade some of them? Cassels ain't going nowwhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Look man insurance is good and all but you could go with some sketchy no name brand insurance like sbisa or you could save some money and switch to geico, which would have been any of the cheap 5/6 dmen around the league. Name one "cheap" 5/6 dmen around the league that is physical and can be confidently thrust into a top-four position without completely screwing up the entire season? From that perspective, Sbisa did a really good job at holding the fort, despite all the injuries sustained by the defenseman. You make this sound like you could see people based off ratings, like NHL15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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