Fred65 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Last season amongst all NHL defensemen Garrison was 4th in plus minus.....plus +18 The top D were +19 http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=summary Alzner was a minus - 6 which ranked him 245thfor D in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niloc009 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Umm when did point production become so important for defenceman? Last I checked, a defeceman's priority is defence. Go figure right and Carlson and Alzner play against the other teams top lines so they are much better defensively that Garrison which is the most important thing. In terms of production, Garrison only had one good point producing season so I wouldn't exactly say he better offensively than either of them. He could very well be just another Cheechoo type player, a one off season and turns into a scrub now that he lost his set up guy. And you still haven't given me a response for his sub-par skating and lack of hockey sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananas Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Not a fan of Jason Garrison. I feel like we only signed him because he's from bc. If he was Russian I doubt we have any interest. And his cap hit for the next 6 years is by all means not much of a discount when you look at comparible players who make significantly less. Also he doesn't have much hockey sense, whenever he gets the puck in the offensive zone he's anxious to just throw it on net. I know we got him for his hard though very inaccurate shot but he couldn't make a decent offensive zone play to save his life. Basically he's your typical "all brawn no brains" type player. But besides that I guess he's a nice guy, but then again so are most hockey players. Anyway thought I'd get this rant out of my system given its a garrison thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I think Garrison was pretty overrated this season. Hamhuis and Tanev were the much better defenders. I think people were blinded by the fact he has a nice shot. His defense is average at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I think the thing some of you are forgetting is how little garrison has actually played in this league....how many full seasons again before coming to Vancouver? Oh ya....1 Ish. 1 Ish seasons then a shortened season in which he signed at gone for less money than the $5.5 and $6 million offers which were reportedly in the table for him. In 4 years his cap hit for his production will be incredible as the cap raises, his hockey sense will only get better (what a stupid thing to say really....lack of hockey sense, it's called experience) and his accuracy will improve. I honestly think we could have Crosby Lidstrom and Orr in our line up and people would whine about their production cap hit or lack of hockey sense. Common sense really isn't that common is it? After AV stated using him properly on his proper side he took off. He will get better in time and could win a Norris, but people will still complain. It's part and parcel to being one of those bi polar canucks fans other people despise. Give Garrison a chance already....less than 50 games and people think he's terrible. Those same people though thought Ballard was a stall I bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck nit Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Yeah,Garrison is going to win a Norris. The man is an above average defender but terrible with his stick - can`t make a pass to save his life and is prone to making bad decisions with the puck in his own end. Yeah,he has a powerful,inaccurate shot that may injure more of our players than what it is worth to put him on the PP. I Like Jason,but he is never going to win a Norris. That calibre D are cerebral play makers that can also play superb D and make it look effortless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangelos Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 That's like saying that Bergeron should stop focusing on defense, as a forward's priority is offence. Total nonsense. You know who else plays against the opponents to lines? Garrison. You seem to forget the long stretch of this season where Hamhuis-Garrison was a pairing and were playing great together. This is further defined by the fact that Garrison's Corsi Rel QoC (Quality of his opponents) is 0.652 (2nd only to Hamhuis on the team), while Carlson is 0.571 and Alzner was 0.479. Funny that Garrison actually played tougher minutes than your two examples, hey? Why haven't I addressed his lack of speed and hockey sense? Because I disagree. He's an average skater, not a bad one. We have a very mobile defence with Hamhuis, Edler, and Bieksa all being fast skaters, making Jason look slow in comparison. And a lack of hockey sense? Not sure how you can have bad hockey sense when playing the shutdown pairing for your team. Unless, you're looking at his offensive zone play, which shouldn't matter to you as defencemen point production isn't even important anyway (apparently) Also, you may want to change your statement to 2 solid seasons, as he was our 2nd best defenceman this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOgRook Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I'm pretty sure there are cheaper players out there who have a hard shot and just shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Bull" Horvat Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Too much bias against Garrison based on the last season he's a solid dmen, underrated but one of the top shutdown pairings with Weaver previously back in Florida. a season later he was placed with Campbell and things worked out because of Garrison's hard shot. You can't compare him to someone like Carlson whose more of a offensive dmen Give him sometime to get used to the western conference, i see him as solid of a defender as Hamhuis one day really wish JG5 was a righty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangelos Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 a season later he was placed with Campbell and things worked out because of Garrison's hard shot. You can't compare him Give him sometime to get used to the western conference, i see him as solid of a defender as Hamhuis one day really wish JG5 was a righty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangelos Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Haahah Sutter and Parise get 7.5 million a year. That is an overpayment not a discount. Also I'm pretty sure Garrison had a rumored 6 million a season offer but he came here for 4.5 so yeah that is a discount Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Yeah,Garrison is going to win a Norris. The man is an above average defender but terrible with his stick - can`t make a pass to save his life and is prone to making bad decisions with the puck in his own end. Yeah,he has a powerful,inaccurate shot that may injure more of our players than what it is worth to put him on the PP. I Like Jason,but he is never going to win a Norris. That calibre D are cerebral play makers that can also play superb D and make it look effortless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Offence is important too, but defence is absolutely a priority when you're a defenceman. You should definitely not be arguing that. And wasn't Bieksa a top pairing d-man playing with Hamhuis? Hamhuis can make anyone look good even me. And being an average skater as a defenceman is a a pretty significant issue. Unless you're being paid as a bottom pairing shutdown d-man a defenceman should be an above average skater especially given he's paid as a top-6 d-man. And a few other comparable/better d-men making less that come to mind are Josi, Orpik, Boychuk, Seidenberg... Should I keep going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Offence is important too, but defence is absolutely a priority when you're a defenceman. You should definitely not be arguing that. And wasn't Bieksa a top pairing d-man playing with Hamhuis? Hamhuis can make anyone look good even me. And being an average skater as a defenceman is a a pretty significant issue. Unless you're being paid as a bottom pairing shutdown d-man a defenceman should be an above average skater especially given he's paid as a top-6 d-man. And a few other comparable/better d-men making less that come to mind are Josi, Orpik, Boychuk, Seidenberg... Should I keep going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmania Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Umm when did point production become so important for defenceman? Last I checked, a defeceman's priority is defence. Go figure right and Carlson and Alzner play against the other teams top lines so they are much better defensively that Garrison which is the most important thing. In terms of production, Garrison only had one good point producing season so I wouldn't exactly say he better offensively than either of them. He could very well be just another Cheechoo type player, a one off season and turns into a scrub now that he lost his set up guy. And you still haven't given me a response for his sub-par skating and lack of hockey sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck nit Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 No he won't win a Norris, there's no question about it. but he COULD win one and people would still be down on him, that's the fan base our team has. Oh he won a Norris but he couldn't win us the cup. Or he helped win us a cup but never got the conn smythe. Some people cannot be pleased....ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Teams were offering upwards of 8M for both so they're a discount too right? The point is they're still overpaid just like Garrison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Josi has 1yr in the NHL and -7; Orpik can't score goals; Boychuk can't score goals; Seidenberg can't score goals. I wouldn't trade Garrison for any of these guys. I have a feeling this is going to turn into a 'do we really need him thread' by January or February. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Umm the guy is 28. However good he is now is how good he's going to be for the next 5 yrs or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmania Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Yeah,Garrison is going to win a Norris. The man is an above average defender but terrible with his stick - can`t make a pass to save his life and is prone to making bad decisions with the puck in his own end. Yeah,he has a powerful,inaccurate shot that may injure more of our players than what it is worth to put him on the PP. I Like Jason,but he is never going to win a Norris. That calibre D are cerebral play makers that can also play superb D and make it look effortless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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