canuckster19 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I was looking at those advance stats to see if I could find an explanation anywhere. It seems I might have one, Canucks are getting most of their penalties in the second period. Now the second period is known for the long change, and the long change requires foot speed. Canucks aren't a fast team, we have never been a fast team, I wonder if it relates to energy loss on the change. If you're not a team that moves the feet, and we aren't that team, we haven't been since Bure days, we aren't going to draw a lot of penalties either. Now the players should have shut their mouths a long time ago, we're not going to get the benefit of the doubt simply because of location, and our players need to take that into account. Another thing is the Sedins, they are not the good ol Canadian boys and we aren't the Detroit Red Wings so we have no marketability for the NHL as a whole, it's just a fact of life. A disabled man who works twice as hard more than the one who whines about getting a raw deal is the one who gets respect, it's a fact of life. We are the disabled team unfortunately shut up and play hard and things will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckster19 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 The Canucks are aggressive on the puck and still get bs calls. Did you see the call on Danny in game four OT at San Jose last playoffs? I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. It was BS, but we already had a history with the refs, let it be known as well that Sutherland was not asked to ref the rest of the playoffs, so obviously the NHL felt something was up, whether there was a conspiracy or not... well who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prana16 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Wow, you question my loyalty to the Canucks because I don't buy into conspiracy theories? Teams that play hard get the calls ie. San Jose so far this year. When the Nucks play hard they get the calls, when they don't, they don't. Too many fans have this conspiracy theory filter on in their heads, so every time a call is missed they go nuts. The problem is that every time a call goes their way it's ignored again and again until another call is missed and then they go nuts. It's a vicious cycle that has been going on for years. No they don't.. which is why Garrett and some others are bringing this up more publicly. The nucks have been dominating the play in some of their recent games and been getting no calls. Its not about a missed call .. its about looking at games in total, looking at groups of games and seeing rather baffling trends and stats that don't seem to match other teams and don't seem to match the "work hard dominate play get calls" mantra you are trying to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 ^^Unfortunately they tried shutting their mouths and playing hard and clean. It doesn't get them anywhere. The NHL has made the rules so grey that the refs can pretty much make any contact a penalty. That's the way they like it. It allows them to dictate the games the way they want to. I think it's time for the Canucks to hire scouts for the refs. Learn which refs call what and use it to their advantage. If we're not getting a fair shake, why play fair? Cheat, embellish, flop around on the ice until we get the calls. Make the refs look stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted October 24, 2013 Author Share Posted October 24, 2013 Yeah there is a ton of bad calls against us, and non-calls against the other team. Our opponents dive sometimes too. But guess what? It's like that for every team in the league. The league and the refs aren't "out to get us", there is no "anti-Canuck bias". The simple answer? The refs are human. They make mistakes, sometimes more than you would hope the (supposed) best in the world would. Sure there is tons of video evidence of us getting bad calls against us, but (believe it or not) there are examples of us getting away with things too! Get over it folks. Sure there is tons of evidence that cigarettes are bad for you, but (believe it or not) there are examples of it not being bad for you. See how silly that sounds... If there is tons of evidence, in a judicial court generally the evidence stands... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prana16 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Yeah there is a ton of bad calls against us, and non-calls against the other team. Our opponents dive sometimes too. But guess what? It's like that for every team in the league. The league and the refs aren't "out to get us", there is no "anti-Canuck bias". The simple answer? The refs are human. They make mistakes, sometimes more than you would hope the (supposed) best in the world would. Sure there is tons of video evidence of us getting bad calls against us, but (believe it or not) there are examples of us getting away with things too! Get over it folks. Its not about the individual calls. You cannot deny the overall stats that are not consistent with normal distributions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jägermeister Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Sure there is tons of evidence that cigarettes are bad for you, but (believe it or not) there are examples of it not being bad for you. See how silly that sounds... If there is tons of evidence, in a judicial court generally the evidence stands... Maybe you should hear how silly the things you are saying sound before you tell that to other people... Not if there is tons of evidence that support the contrary. Its not about the individual calls. You cannot deny the overall stats that are not consistent with normal distributions. I'm not denying the stats. I'm simply suggesting the reasoning for it is not some league wide conspiracy against the Canucks. Stats simply describe, they do not infer as to why things are that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saved_by_Jesus Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 First of all, great videos Makavelli. For those of you who say "the Canucks don't work hard enough to draw penalties", that's a load of crap. It is true that sometimes they don't play as hard as we'd like, but there is no way they are so badly outworked on a nightly basis that they should be last in the league in powerplays. In fact I would say that there is little doubt that the Canucks are in the top half of the league in both work ethic and puck possession - both things that lead to penalties. Of course, having said this, I don't believe in "conspiracy theories" because I don't see any motive for the league to have it in for a particular organization. However, be it luck, or the referees' conscious (or sub-conscious) dislike for the Canucks, something is wrong here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSU Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck or Die Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 A disabled man who works twice as hard more than the one who whines about getting a raw deal is the one who gets respect, it's a fact of life. We are the disabled team unfortunately shut up and play hard and things will change. Sorry, but no. It isn't that simple. We have been keeping quiet, and they still screw us over. Things aren't going to change because they league and the media made us to be the bad guys, plain and simple. We are damned if we do, damned if we don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdubuya Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I think the sample size is still too small to start analyzing things like PPs/game. I honestly don't think the refs have an agenda against us. Maybe individual players have gotten a bad repuation for things like diving (unjustly so)... but I don't think thats enough to totally skew the numbers. You get powerplays by generating offense and creating scoring chances. I find our team often struggles to do this on a consistent basis. Once the offense heats up so will the powerplays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAntar Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I don't see any motive for the league to have it in for a particular organization You don't? You don't think there's a financial benefit to the league for teams in markets that need wins to sell tickets to produce wins in those markets? Specifically, I mean compared to those markets that sell out regardless, and wins mean no change to their bottom line. If you don't think billion dollar industries can't be capable of manipulating circumstances to that degree then I'm not sure you're paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAntar Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Oh yeah I forgot -- to add even more to my argument regarding league motives... One Canadian team to the finals every 3 seasons or so (with zero cup wins don't forget) since bettman came along? Just enough to keep us peons watching games? I'm not suggesting fixed outcomes on a per-game basis ... But surely through a combination of officiating and scheduling, outcomes can be statistically influenced to " go a certain way" don't you think? And again if you don't think it's EVEN POSSIBLE then i don't think you're paying enough attention to the ability huge (rich) corporations have to manipulate various circumstances in their favour. Mind you, despite the plausibility I still hope it isn't the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saved_by_Jesus Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I'm not suggesting fixed outcomes on a per-game basis ... But surely through a combination of officiating and scheduling, outcomes can be statistically influenced to " go a certain way" don't you think? And again if you don't think it's EVEN POSSIBLE then i don't think you're paying enough attention to the ability huge (rich) corporations have to manipulate various circumstances in their favour. Mind you, despite the plausibility I still hope it isn't the case. I think it's possible but unlikely. First of all, I think most markets rely on on-ice success in order to sell tickets. Toronto and Montreal may be the only exception. If you think Vancouver is not a fair weather fan base, think back to the late 80's and early 90's. Also, if they were screwing teams that don't "need" the wins to make money, then Toronto and Montreal would be screwed over just as much as us right? Is Montreal and Toronto second and third to last in power play opportunities? If so, there might be something to this conspiracy theory. Otherwise, I think you overestimate the NHL's willingness to lose integrity by "persuading the outcome" when the product would be just as good if they left it to chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinch16 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I've done a simple statistical test by following an undergraduate statistics textbook that I used years back. I got the data from the game-by-game stats at nhl.com: http://www.nhl.com/i...d=nav-sts-gbyg# I will skip the details. Simply put, I compared the league average PP opp of 3.688 to canucks avg PP opp of 2.636. The null hypothesis is that there is no difference in mean PP opps between the league and the canucks versus alternative hypothesis that the league mean PP is greater. I estimated* the standard deviation (variance) and used the one-sided t-test at alpha=5% significance level. The t-statistic was 1.85 and the critical value was 1.66 -- 1.85 > 1.66 => the conclusion is to reject the null hypothesis that there is no difference in favour of the alternative hypothesis that the mean league PP opps is larger. Simply put, there is statistically significant difference between the league and the canucks PP opportunities. Of course, I had to make few assumptions to carry out the test so can't say with certainty that this conclusion is absolutely correct but at least there is a reason to suspect that the canucks are being treated unfairly (for some reason). Also, the sample size of 11 games is still too small so maybe I can try again after 20 or 30 games mark and see if I get the same conclusion. Got it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguez Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Have you watched SJ skate their butts off all game and push the play, thus, out playing every team they've faced? Sure, they dive sometimes, but so does every team in this league. Shush. You're embarassing yourself. Look at me other teams fans that might be patrolling our boards, I'm the voice of reason, all other fans, the media and the video evidence provided by mackaveli are just wrong, yippee I might be accepted as an equal on the maple leaf boards now!!!!! Shush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Mac Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr-UMeltlIc&feature=youtube_gdata_player Even restaurants are in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckster19 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr-UMeltlIc&feature=youtube_gdata_player Even restaurants are in it. ROFL, first time I've seen that, mind you I live abroad, good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I still think we should just tell Stestito to grab Sutherland and beat him within an inch of a life. Why stop.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raspberries Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 We drew lots of penalties that year we were the best team in the league.. we also had the best pp by a large margin (like historical i think) and then oddly..mid way through the year, poof as if every player in the league changed their stripes gone.. hardly any pp's.. not just a little change but night and day no matter who we played. , Exactly. It was January 2012 and the Canucks had the best PP in the league. Then we played the Bruins in Boston and suddenly POOF! No more PPs. Canucks were getting next to nothing and the few and far between PPs they did get left the PP completely rusty as it became painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain exactly what was going on. And for the nimnuts who say why would be league even bother, it IS about money, and about Bettman wanting to grow the game in the US markets. It isn't a coincidence that teams like LA and San Jose are getting away with diving and cheap shots - those are the markets the league wants to protect. It is about time someone in the media started to speak up about what is so painfully obvious to anyone who has watched the Canucks constantly being screwed over by the league the past few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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